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Author Topic: home made 12 volt generator  (Read 11106 times)
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2007, 11:25:06 AM »

in 50+ years of RV'ing I only had an alternator on a vehicle quit one time. At the next town I stopped at Sears and purchased a small battery charger. I then started my genset and connected the battery charger to the coach battery so I had lights and the other needed electrical items. I did not have an inverter. In fact this was before the days of the inverter. I did always carry the battery charger after that, but never needed it. This was on a gasoline coach. A diesel coach requires very little DC power to keep running.
Richard

Ever since I have been driving I have had a morbid and irrational fear of being stranded with flat batteries - so I'm liking this idea of having another way of charging batteries should my generator fail (and potentially a much faster way of charging too). I also like the whole 'inventiveness' thing, and definitely disagree with those who say 'You must do it this way because everyone else does'.

What would be a really neat solution perhaps would be to arrange the additional small engine so that it could somehow be made to turn the existing bus alternator, rather than having to supply a new alternator and all the associated cables and switching etc required. It wouldn't really be feasible to change belts over each time, but I expect a clever person could work out some kind of electrical clutch mechanism to allow the alternator to be turned by either engine. Perhaps the electric clutch thingy off a belt-driven air conditioning pump could be adapted?

Jeremy
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Dallas
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2007, 11:30:57 AM »

It might be more reliable and a lot quieter to use one of the smaller Yamaha or Honda generators.  You could then power a charger for the batteries.  It might be more economical than having to run a big genset just to charge the batteries.  Of course, you'd have to have gasoline on the bus, but some of us do anyway.

David

And now we've gone Full circle!  Cheesy Cheesy Shocked Shocked

The Honda and I think the Yamaha  use inverter technology to create electricity. Which means, if your batteries go flat, you crank up a small engine to run an alternator to run an inverter to run a battery charger to charge the batteries so the engine will start and run the alternator to charge the batteries to run the stuff in the coach and they'll go flat again so you start all over!    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

How about getting really basic and buying one of those war surplus Organ Grinder type generators that you crank by hand for hours and hours and hours to charge your batteries so you can start the generator to run the inverter to charge the batteries to start your main engine to run all the stuff.....

Wow, charging batteries is a hard job to think about.
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captain ron
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2007, 12:06:47 PM »

I have a 24 volt electrodyne alternator I bought off of E-bay 2 or 3 years ago. It was a new rebuild from detroits city transit. I don't know the specs on it as far as amp's, some of you may. I also have a brand new Honda generator remote starter. My inverter is 12 volt and I have no intentions of changing that, works fine. Can I use all of this stuff to build a cool genset or should I put it on E-bay and start over? Don't know if there's a way to rectify,capacitate, modulate or just reduce voltage. Those other 3 words were just thrown in there to impress you guy Grin
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2007, 12:21:31 PM »

It all depends. I assume your coach is 24 volts and you have and existing alternator on it to charge the coach batteries. I assume your house batteries are 12 volt. Although the electrodyne is available in different amp ratings, I really do not see how you can use it to maintain your 12 volt house batteries. I have no idea what the Honda remote starter is. Just a remote start panel?
I would guess you would be better off, since you now are an educated electrician, to dump this stuff on ebay and get what you really need which I again assume is a 120 volt genset.
Richard


I have a 24 volt electrodyne alternator I bought off of E-bay 2 or 3 years ago. It was a new rebuild from detroits city transit. I don't know the specs on it as far as amp's, some of you may. I also have a brand new Honda generator remote starter. My inverter is 12 volt and I have no intentions of changing that, works fine. Can I use all of this stuff to build a cool genset or should I put it on E-bay and start over? Don't know if there's a way to rectify,capacitate, modulate or just reduce voltage. Those other 3 words were just thrown in there to impress you guy Grin
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Jeremy
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2007, 12:50:06 PM »

in 50+ years of RV'ing I only had an alternator on a vehicle quit one time. At the next town I stopped at Sears and purchased a small battery charger. I then started my genset and connected the battery charger to the coach battery so I had lights and the other needed electrical items. I did not have an inverter. In fact this was before the days of the inverter. I did always carry the battery charger after that, but never needed it. This was on a gasoline coach. A diesel coach requires very little DC power to keep running.
Richard



When I said 'generator fail', I meant generator, not alternator. If I have flat batteries the only way I can start the engine is to charge the batteries up - and should the generator (or charger) fail I cannot do that - and even if everything works the charging would take quite a while. That's why I like the concept of an additional level of redundancy and and alternative way of producing power in an emergency.

Jeremy
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captain ron
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2007, 12:58:07 PM »

Well I'll NEVER be an electrician but I'll always be a tinkerer of sorts with making things and trying to do something original and different.
My ultimate idea for my genset since my bus is Harley Davidson themed, Was to get a motor from the Harley V-Rod and mount it in the place I removed ac condenser. Hook it to a generator head using a HD belt. It's water cooled and quiet, has plenty of horse power and also has an alternator that could be upgraded to a heavier duty one four touring packages to do battery charging. I know it would be economically unfeasible to build but would be way cool and that's what a lot of us are looking for. And if I ever get the opportunity to do this I will..............Oh the Honda remote starter is the panel and wiring harness. Don't know if it would be adaptable to anything else or not Huh?
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2007, 01:14:00 PM »

Ron, the first thing I think you need to do is learn the difference between a generator and alternator, if you do not already know that.
Basically what we are discussing, I believe is a device for charging either a 24 volt or 12 volt battery. If that is correct, then an alternator is a newer invented device than a generator but they both do the same thing. Put a 12 (24) volt charge into a set of batteries.
The generator generates DC directly and outputs DC thru a set of very heavy duty brushes to the load.

The alternator generates AC which feeds thru a set of rectifiers (diodes) which converts the AC to DC and then outputs a DC voltage to the load.Alternators were invented in the late 60's and have been standard equipment on all automotive products since that general era.

An engine genset is typically an engine driving an AC alternator and outputting 120 volts at 60 hertz.

Based on the above, we need to know what you really want to do.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2007, 01:50:18 PM »

Richard,

The automotive alternator was developed long before the 60's.

I've seen refences to them clear back into the 40's, and the PD4104 had what was called an AC generator inthe 50's.

Just a little worthless trivia from my coffee and 12v clouded mind.

 Kiss
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captain ron
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2007, 02:02:47 PM »

Your making this more difficult (for me) than it needs to be. My understanding when I started this thread was that you could make a generator of sorts using an alternator and just charge your batteries to keep up with the demand on them from the inverter. eliminating the need for a large, expensive, and loud generator. I already have a coleman 3500 generator that does the job when called upon. I however cannot use my smart charger off of it as it has already burned up 2 of them. Just not compatible. I may build one of these just for fun and something to do and the learning experience.

Now my previous post about building a genset out of a V-Rod motor was my ultimate goal when the bus is complete. Correct me if I'm wrong but after reading the thread about the 24 volt alternator I thought I could do both things and have redundancy built into this unit. Just for example only... I buy that generator head from Northern Tool. Drive it with the V-Rod motor to make my regular genset.
Then I use the built in alternator to keep my house batteries charged. You can get heavy duty alternators for them to help with the larger load, which still may not be enough to keep up with a running load, but it would not need to since if its running any way your running the generator also, unless you build in a disengage device. It probably don't make sense to any of you but I think it would be way cool. The Ultimate Harley Bus
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Dallas
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2007, 02:13:19 PM »

No matter what anyone else thinks, I think it's cool, Ron.

My plan is to use inverter technology and an Isuzu motor from a Carrier or Thermoking reefer unit. It'll take up a whole bunch less room than my old Generac contraption. I also plan on mounting 2 Leece-Neville truck alternators on it to run 2 seperate inverters. After all, why not, If the little motor has to run, it needs to be run under a load anyway, why not make that load as heavy as possible?

YMMV
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captain ron
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2007, 02:54:53 PM »

Thanks Dallas, If I had Money I'd be a dangerous man. I have a very creative (weird) mind.
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2007, 05:11:03 PM »

No way. The silicon diode was not invented until the 50-60's and the brushless alternator was not possible without the diode. Prior to that time all the devices generated the DC directly and removed it from the revolving armature with the aid of very heavy DC brushes riding on commutator bars.
AC generators (not alternators) prior to that time used heavy duty brushes riding on sliprings.
Richard



Richard,

The automotive alternator was developed long before the 60's.

I've seen refences to them clear back into the 40's, and the PD4104 had what was called an AC generator inthe 50's.

Just a little worthless trivia from my coffee and 12v clouded mind.

 Kiss
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 05:13:24 PM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2007, 05:17:22 PM »

Sounds to me like it would work. Just be aware that the Northern alternator is 3600 rpm, extremely noisy and very poor voltage regulation. At least the ones I have seen.
Richard

Your making this more difficult (for me) than it needs to be. My understanding when I started this thread was that you could make a generator of sorts using an alternator and just charge your batteries to keep up with the demand on them from the inverter. eliminating the need for a large, expensive, and loud generator. I already have a coleman 3500 generator that does the job when called upon. I however cannot use my smart charger off of it as it has already burned up 2 of them. Just not compatible. I may build one of these just for fun and something to do and the learning experience.

Now my previous post about building a genset out of a V-Rod motor was my ultimate goal when the bus is complete. Correct me if I'm wrong but after reading the thread about the 24 volt alternator I thought I could do both things and have redundancy built into this unit. Just for example only... I buy that generator head from Northern Tool. Drive it with the V-Rod motor to make my regular genset.
Then I use the built in alternator to keep my house batteries charged. You can get heavy duty alternators for them to help with the larger load, which still may not be enough to keep up with a running load, but it would not need to since if its running any way your running the generator also, unless you build in a disengage device. It probably don't make sense to any of you but I think it would be way cool. The Ultimate Harley Bus
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
captain ron
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« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2007, 05:24:07 PM »

Just for example only... I buy that generator head from Northern Tool. 

Only used that one as on example.
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Dallas
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« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2007, 06:10:34 PM »

No way. The silicon diode was not invented until the 50-60's and the brushless alternator was not possible without the diode. Prior to that time all the devices generated the DC directly and removed it from the revolving armature with the aid of very heavy DC brushes riding on commutator bars.
AC generators (not alternators) prior to that time used heavy duty brushes riding on sliprings.
Richard



Richard,

The automotive alternator was developed long before the 60's.

I've seen refences to them clear back into the 40's, and the PD4104 had what was called an AC generator inthe 50's.

Just a little worthless trivia from my coffee and 12v clouded mind.

 Kiss

Here's an excerpt from the 4104 supplement X-5914:

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