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Author Topic: 1973 05 Eagle owner requesting information  (Read 948 times)
Gary LaBombard
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« on: November 04, 2017, 09:39:58 AM »

Hey guys,
I need actual suggestions for the following situation on my 1973 05 Eagle.  I have retraced my 12v wiring system I installed 12 years ago for any problems I may have caused as I did not know anything about DC wiring or electrical prints.  Anyhow I had a friend help me check out the starting system for my bus and have two problems and two questions to ask of those with legit suggestions.  No indirect comments please, I confuse very easily and desperately need to accomplish this conversion.
 
1)   I am enclosing a photo of one of my parts that failed on our 12v investigation, one is my 12v main power disconnect switch which we had to bypass to test system. This has to be replaced, it does not come apart so you can see if it can be fixed or anything, maybe should not consider anyhow.  But, a new one is $216 +SH and these costs are killing me now.  Do any of you that did complete conversions have your old disconnect switch that you will sell it reasonably?  It needs to handle 50 Max volts, & 400 amp with connecting lug bolts.   I am enclosing a photo of my disconnect switch. website of actual one for sale also.

2)   I also have to replace my original (engine start) push button which also turns out to be bad.  We had to jumper this out also to bump over my engine to see if it would start up with 12v energized.  It did, we only made it revolve 2 times which satisfied me up to that time. I can get this push button local I am sure.
 
Questions to ask before engine start up:
A)   How do you start your engine from the engine compartment?  Did you install a separate push button to activate the start up after turning on the dash ignition key?  I have a small switch back on the eng. Compartment  Electrical connection box that has to be in the on position to start the engine from the driver area up front otherwise the engine will not start up.  This seems like a safety switch to prevent accidental start up of the engine from inside the bus by intruder etc., but I am not sure.  Photo of this also is included here in this post.
 
B)   How do you shut down your engine from the engine compartment should a problem exist? I do not have the Air Intake flapper door in my intake air filter system, have no idea if this was a po or Eagle design change? My idea was to install a fuel inline on/off valve right after the primary filter?  Not sure on this also, that is why I am asking.  Will the engine stop by shutting off the above (#A) switch as if it were the key switch?

Here is link to new disconnect switch:https://www.delcity.net/store/Heavy!duty-Disconnect-Switch/p_4873
Thanks to all for information requested by me.
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Gary
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 10:12:41 AM »

Gary,Eagle never came with the blade type disconnect switch just use the Caterpillar type like Eagle used  they are cheap and easy to install, I buy 1st quality switches from Texas Industrial Electric in San Antonio.
It is a lot easier just to install a push button switch directly from the solenoid then you don't need to be sure all the toggles switches are in the right position but we all do it different me I like simple and trouble free
www.texasindustrialelectric.com they have good switches no junk and will help you decide on what you need        
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 10:26:19 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2017, 10:29:26 AM »

Cliff,I want to be sure I am on the same page as you, are you talking about the small toggle switch, Photo #81?  Or are you talking about the large 12v main power disconnect photo #79 & #80 also similar to the one in the link I enclosed in my post?  I will go now to the link you posted from texas industrials.
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2017, 10:39:22 AM »

Gary,the main battery disconnect switch Eagle used were under 50 bucks each most 05 Eagle had 2 and the model 15 used 3
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2017, 10:50:18 AM »

Any ideas how to shut down the engine from engine compartment if needed especially if there is a run away as you start it up from the engine compt.
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Gary
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2017, 11:08:48 AM »

  ... 
1)   I am enclosing a photo of one of my parts that failed on our 12v investigation, one is my 12v main power disconnect switch which we had to bypass to test system. This has to be replaced, it does not come apart so you can see if it can be fixed or anything, maybe should not consider anyhow.  But, a new one is $216 +SH and these costs are killing me now.  Do any of you that did complete conversions have your old disconnect switch that you will sell it reasonably?  It needs to handle 50 Max volts, & 400 amp with connecting lug bolts.   I am enclosing a photo of my disconnect switch. website of actual one for sale also.... 


      Hi, Gary.  I have bought a couple of switches for my house electricals from Longacre Racing.  http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1643&pagetitle=Battery+Disconnect+Switches  I haven't seen any that are 400 Amp (not sure what that need is) but they have some pretty high capacity switches in the $40 - $80 range with surge up to 1000 Amps. 
      Any chance these will work you?  (If you are using this switch as your main switch, they have a couple that are 4-terminal with a separate circuit for alternator field current.) 
       Best wishes for getting this work completed.  BH  NC
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 11:27:49 AM »

Any ideas how to shut down the engine from engine compartment if needed especially if there is a run away as you start it up from the engine compt.


Yea you trip the air shut off manually 
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 11:42:55 AM »

cliff, I do not have a air flapper shut off in my air intake?  Been removed or design changed. 
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 11:47:06 AM »

cliff, I do not have a air flapper shut off in my air intake?  Been removed or design changed. 

That is good you have spring loaded fuel control tubes
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 12:18:58 PM »

Gary,

My bus has both the main disconnect switch like the picture and one like shown in the link. The main disconnect runs between the start battery bank and the coach. The racing disconnect is placed on the line to the coach and ties in the house batteries.

When the racing one is connected, the bus alternator charges the house batteries when running. When the generator is running and powering the inverter/charger the start batteries get a charge. Also, there is more available battery power when the coach and generator are not running. I'm still playing with this to see how much high power appliances I can run without the generator running; such as coffee maker, hair dryer, microwave, stuff that runs for a fairly short time. AC demands force generator to be running. 
All these comments refer to boondocking as that is 90% of my use.

In the coach there should be a switch under a red cover that is an emergency engine shutdown. Never used it and all I know is only use it in a real EMERGENCY when the engine can not be turned off.
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Don F
1976 MCI/TMC MC-8 #1286
Fully converted (June 2017)
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 02:56:46 PM »

That main shutoff looks identical to the one in my 4905. Check with Luke for new or used. The rear switches should have one to switch from front or rear control. The other should be a momentary switch to crank engine. Spring tension should return it off after engine starts and you release it. You should definitely pull valve covers to check for spring loaded fuel rails and for any sticking or stuck injector racks. Each finger from the rotatable tube will have it's own spring for each injector. The idea is that even if one injector is stuck at full fuel, the other ones are still able to return to idle position. The engine will still run fast, but not enough to run away. Of course if 3 or 4 stick, then it is going to take off, I don't know how high rpm it'll be. If you find any seized or sticking, you can remove them and have rebuilt or exchanged. Sometimes they just bind and you can free them up with some working and like tapping. Or you can install an electric fuel pump for priming filters and temp plumb it to force fuel injector cleaner through filters, fuel pump, heads, fuel lines, and injectors for an hour or so.I recently did this with Lucas fuel conditioner. I let the electric fuel pump draw the cleaner from their gallon jug, captured the fuel from temporally disconnected return line to tank till it ran clear and fixed lines so all of the Lucas just recycled through system and not main tank back into Lucas jug. I purchased one gallon and two quarts, using the quarts to replenish gallon jug. When done, I ended with slightly less than a full gallon of Lucas, which I can add to tank periodically as desired. Racks and injectors move as slick as goose grease. Engine hadn't been started for 5-6 years and a couple of injectors we're sticking. Mine has a flap, which I made sure it works properly.A runaway engine thought makes me nervious.The reason is the governor system on these Detroit's, Opens racks to FULL fuel when starting the engine. As soon as it starts governor immediately returns racks to idle position.Any binding in racks or injectors won't allow governor to return from full fuel and risk a runaway. Cliff has mentioned using a pair of vise grips on throttle lever at engine to force it back to idle in an emergency. Of course he has much more experience in how to deal with issue if it happens, more than most of the rest of us.
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GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2017, 08:42:24 AM »

Replace the main battery switch with any off the shelf switch that has ENOUGH AMP RATING.

I remember Sean Welsh tearing into one of those like the picture, and thousands of buses have 'em. We plave way too much faith in them, he found the internals lacking in the one he broke into.

Why are you worried about a run-away? I suggest it is an overblown topic? If it wasn't for the internet, few of us would even know the term, and only those who re-build an engine, or recovering an engine that has sat for YEARS, need to think about this.

Theory and reality collide...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2017, 09:59:09 AM »

Gary I think I have a good low time battery master switch in my spare stuff that I will give you for shipping.  Its the Cat lever type like Cliff mentioned.  Model 10's had four, one for each of the chassis batteries  at the battery compartment, and one master in the engine compartment.
This is the one from the engine compartment that I took off when repowering.  Let me know if you would like it.
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'81 Eagle 15/45, NO MORE
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2017, 10:11:35 AM »

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2386202.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XCOLE+HERSEE+MASTER+DICCONNECT.TRS0&_nkw=COLE+HERSEE+MASTER+DICCONNECT&_sacat=0
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Donald PH
1978 Model 05 Eagle w/Torsilastic Suspension,8V71 NA, DDAllison on 24.5's 12kw Kubota.
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2017, 10:17:20 AM »

Yup, that be the one.
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'81 Eagle 15/45, NO MORE
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2017, 09:47:55 PM »

My bus's rear start panel had been eviscerated by the previous owner, and all the switches were gone.   Crown had used a three-switch setup  -  Ignition, Safety, and Start, which I thought was unnecessarily complicated, so I did away with the Safety switch.   The rear Start switch sends power from the run ("Ignition") solenoid in the front junction box to the rear panel's Start solenoid which then triggers the starter's solenoid.   Rebuilding that was easy, but I then couldn't turn off the engine from the rear panel!   Instead of faffing about with the DDEC computer for a shut down function, I simply ran a 50 ft length of 10 AWG wire from the front Ignition solenoid's ground terminal back to the rear panel's Ignition switch, and then to a good ground nearby.   Easy!   Now the DDEC doesn't see any difference whether I switch off the engine from the front or the back  -  either way, the front Ignition solenoid's ground is disconnected, turning everything off.   The rear panel's new Start switch is a push-On Dorman 86915 SPST with a rubber boot, and the new rear Ignition switch is a K-Four 16-140 pull-On / push-Off SPST.   While I had everything apart I also replaced all three solenoids with new Cole-Hersee 24059 continuous-duty ones  -  the old ones were still working, but why take a chance with them?

Keep a CO2 extinguisher handy if you're worried about a runaway, and jet it into the air intake if the engine runs away.

John
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1990 Crown 2R-40N-552 (the Super II):  6V92TAC / DDEC II / Jake,  HT740.     Hecho en Chino.
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 05:16:59 AM »

His mechanical engine is air shut down ,he can install a shut off valve on the fuel filter, it will still run for about 30 seconds.The 92 series very few have a emergency shut down so he is worrying about something that doesn't happen often if ever. 
The few runaways I have saw over the years were owners induced by one fooling with the governor adjustment like the buffer screw or Jake Brake buffer control on the mechanical engines     
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2017, 11:23:05 AM »

Well cheap ole me decided to drill out the stainless rivets holding the main disconnect together and see what I could do.  It was so simple, there is a plastic disc under the metal butterfly in the photos that broke.  It was out of plastic but I made a new one out of Nylon which should not shatter or crack.  I will replace the rivets with stainless bolts and reassemble on the bus.  $216 saved.   I tried to super glue it to be able to get dimensions to make new one but glad I did not try to depend upon that lasting, it didn't. Thanks for all the ideas and offers to help me out on this problem.  Now I need to order new push start button for dash area.  
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Gary
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2017, 12:50:10 PM »



Gary   Way to go.  Next  NAPA has some good push buttons if you ask the right guy.

uncle ned

PS enjoyed lunch sunday.  now look up Earkel to see what kind of car he drove
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