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Author Topic: 4108 Radiator Shutters  (Read 1474 times)
richard5933
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« on: November 09, 2017, 05:42:51 PM »

The tech at the shop mentioned to me that the shutters on my 4108 are not moving like they should. They apparently are pretty much always at about 45 degrees - sort of half open. He says that they should be more closed on a cold engine and more open on a fully warmed engine.

When operating on the freeway with temps in the mid-70s, the engine temp never got more than 180.

The tech suggested that I remove the cover and start dripping oil on the pivot points to free them up. There was nothing in the manual about this other than a brief paragraph, and no pictures.

Before taking anything apart I thought it might be a good idea to ask if anyone else has had experience with the shutters and could offer suggestions.

Thanks!
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Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Current Bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 06:10:23 PM »

At least with MCIs, you only need them if you are going to idle overnight at 20 below. I would remove them.

JC
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JC
Blackie AB
1977 MC5C, 6V92/HT740
chessie4905
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 06:53:14 PM »

Probably sticking pivot points or seized shutter cylinder that operates them.. There is a reservoir to add shutterstat fluid to btw. There should also be a petcock to shut off the air to allow them to stay open. We kept them working on the 4104 as it would run cold on light load on the level or down long grades. We don't have shutters on our 4905 as it has the hydraulic fan.
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GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
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chessie4905
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 07:03:32 PM »

Probably sticking pivot points or seized shutter cylinder that operates them.. There is a reservoir to add shutterstat fluid to btw. There should also be a petcock to shut off the air to allow them to stay open. We kept them working on the 4104 as it would run cold on light load on the level or down long grades. We don't have shutters on our 4905 as it has the hydraulic fan.
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GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
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dtcerrato
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 07:10:29 PM »

We removed the shutters on our 4104. They were pretty worn. If we ever needed to slow the air down, we'd just use a zippered jacket like the truckers do. Removing it helped keep it cooler when it would normally run warmer. Besides the thermostat take care of the rest.
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Dan & Sandy
PD4104-129 since 1979
eagle19952
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 07:50:37 PM »

oil and operate. repeat.
ok oil once and manually operate 78 times, then repeat.
if they are salvageable.
if not i would simply open and leave them
but i like my stuff to be as original as possible.
shutters are good.
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Donald PH
1978 Model 05 Eagle w/Torsilastic Suspension,8V71 N, DD, Allison on 24.5's 12kw Kubota.
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 05:44:36 AM »

Wisconsin can be cold.

Either working Torus on the hydraulic fan, or shutters, you will want one or the other for cold weather operation.

I kept the shutters functional, and neutered the damper doors in an MC8.

For the time being, find the air shut off valve, and get them all the way open. They either close all the way, or open all the way, they do not graduate.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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richard5933
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 12:17:18 PM »

I dripped oil in the pivot points for a while and was able to get the shutters to move, but only with a lot of effort. It seems like the air cylinder is used to close them, and there are a couple of springs that are used to pull them open again when the temps raise.

They close easier than they open, especially since the air cylinder is helping that take place. I'm slightly concerned that if they close on their own now they won't spring open when necessary.

Anyone have any experience taking one of the shutter assemblies apart for a proper cleaning and reconditioning? Doesn't seem like it should be all that difficult, but I'm hesitant to just start taking things apart unless I have some idea of what to expect. Unfortunately, this is not covered in the manual.

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Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Current Bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
eagle19952
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 01:28:56 PM »

the odds of rejuvenating them in one piece, whether in place or on the bench, are better than a total disassembly..in my experience.
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Donald PH
1978 Model 05 Eagle w/Torsilastic Suspension,8V71 N, DD, Allison on 24.5's 12kw Kubota.
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 02:32:59 PM »

on mine I lubed all the moving parts and worked them back and forth with the air cylinder unhooked . it didn't take to long to get them working like new but I had to replace 1 air cylinder and all was good .   

many a time it was cold 0 to -10 f when we left home to go south and it makes a huge difference for heat

dave
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dave , karen
1990 mci 102c  6v92 ta ht740  kit,living room slide .... sold
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 home base huntsville ontario canada
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 06:33:09 PM »

Disconnect and remove shutter assy. Get it on bench and liberally spray pivot points. Let soak overnight. Repeat. Once the penetrant does it's job things will loosen nicely. Don't rush and try to force them to move too soon. You'll twist paddles and they won't close completely any more. Do not dissemble assembly, but remove springs before applying penetrant. Take cylinder apart, clean and lube. I remember they use leather or felt covered piston which is kept !ubed by a reservoir, that also has an on off valve. I believe they are Kysor shutters and use Kysor shutterstat fluid for the lubricant.PB blaster penetrant works well for this and is available at Wal Mart.
My manual X7564 shows the shutters, air cylinder, and temp control switch with limited info on service. This information was much more detailed in the 4104 manual when shutters were on all or them. Optional on 4108 and 4905's.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 10:04:08 AM by chessie4905 » Logged

GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 04:53:55 AM »

Think hard about replacing the springs, and confirming that they are actually in place to start with.

Find the air pressure shut off valve, both for now and future use.

My pictures reside on a drive that isn't accessible at the moment. Who has a picture?

Air turned off, shutters should stay open with the springs.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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richard5933
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 10:05:58 AM »

I finally got around to working in the shutters. After only about half an hour of working on them, I was able to get the shutters freed up and moving quite freely. With the air line disconnected I can manually close them and when I let go the springs snap them open. This is a good thing.

I reconnected the air line and started the bus. At full pressure (but still cold engine) the shutters were staying open.

A quick phone call to Luke and I learned that they're probably set for summer use so that they stay open. There is an air regulator above the engine with two T-handles to control air flow. Luke says that in summer one is closed and the other open, keeping the shutters open. In the colder weather I simply reverse the two handles and this allows air to flow to the shutterstat.

There is nothing in my manual about the shutters that I can find. Anyone have any additional information about the shutter system which was an option on the 4108? Main thing I'd like to know is which T-handle is supposed to be open/closed during each season so I'm not guessing. If there is a manual page about these it would be great to see what they said.

Thanks.
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Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Current Bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
eagle19952
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2018, 04:47:13 PM »

in the "winter" position..the shutterstat will tell them to open when they reach the "it's to hot setting...i need to cool.

i never heard of a ...summer keep me open setting.

they are spring open
air closed
should do the same thing in January as it would in June.
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Donald PH
1978 Model 05 Eagle w/Torsilastic Suspension,8V71 N, DD, Allison on 24.5's 12kw Kubota.
richard5933
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 05:34:31 PM »

Just going by what Luke told me earlier. There are two T-handles on the air regulator. My guess is that right now the air is shut off to the shutterstat.
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Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Current Bus)
1964 GM PD4106-2412
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB
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