Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
September 21, 2014, 05:18:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: It will not turn yellow, get musty, dusty, and mildewed or fade.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 50 amp plug in  (Read 3169 times)
pawagan
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4




Ignore
« on: February 09, 2007, 12:54:07 PM »

When you have a 50 amp plug in, how much is the voltage coming into the coach?

The reason I am asking the question, is due to a friend's request to have a 50 amp service installed at his summer home, so he can hook his RV to service.
I wasn't aware that you could have anything but 220 volts if you had a 50 amp service to plug into.

I dont recall reading anything about this in the magazine.

Please let me hear from someone.

Logged
edvanland
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 360




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 02:05:11 PM »

I don't understand all the electric things, however I do know with a 50 AMP plug you only get 110 in the coach.  Mine has a 50 AMP plug.  When I got it I wired my own 50 AMP circuit in the garge so I could plug in.  Yoy will get more knowledable people who will reply but that is what I did.
ED
MCI 7
Logged

Ed Van
MCI 7
Cornville, AZ
Jerry32
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 726





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 02:22:42 PM »

50 amp is essentally 240v with two legs of 120v center tapped with the nuetral. That gives you two 120v 50 amp legs.
Logged

1988 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 740
gumpy
Some Assembly Required
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3249


Slightly modified 1982 MC9


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 02:43:32 PM »

Jerry is essentially correct here.  A 50 amp power outlet is 240 volts. It is composed of 4 wires: 2 hots, 1 neutral, and one ground. The two hots are 120 volts each in reference to neutral, but out of phase with each other. These two hots are typically used for 240 volt applications in a household environment.

However, in a coach, there is generally no 240 volt equipment. Often, one leg of the connection is used to power the entire coach, but it is not uncommon to use both, since most coaches use a standard house breaker box, which is composed of the same 4 buses. But the usage is typically all 120 volts, or one of the hot legs paired with the neutral.

Your buddy is correct in wanting to install a 50 amp, 240 volt outlet to plug into.  He should use a standard RV power pole, with the standard 4 prong receptacle.

Logged

Craig Shepard
Located in Minnesquito

http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 03:23:03 PM »

I don't understand all the electric things, however I do know with a 50 AMP plug you only get 110 in the coach.  Mine has a 50 AMP plug.  When I got it I wired my own 50 AMP circuit in the garge so I could plug in.  Yoy will get more knowledable people who will reply but that is what I did.
ED
MCI 7

The statement above is incorrect. The correct terminology is 50 amp, 240/120 volt service. There are two legs of 120 volts at 50 amps available for a total of 100 amps, or one leg of 50 amps at 240 volts available, or any combination of the two, as long as you do not exceed 50 amps per leg.
You could operate an electric range that requires 20 amps at 240 volts and any combination of other electrical devices that require not more than a total of 60 amps at 120 volts. This 60 amps would have to be split at 30 amps each for each leg.
Richard
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6785





Ignore
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 11:52:17 PM »

I have my bus wired straight 120v.  I do have a 50 amp plug, but only use one side of the plug.  I have read many a post where campers have plugged into an improperly wired 50 amp plug and gotton a full jolt of 240v into the coach.  If you have doubts as to the wiring of the plug, have a volt meter with you.  Neutral to leg one should be 120v, leg two to neutral should also be 120v, leg one to leg two should be 240v, ground should not register.  Just a good way to protect your self, no matter which way your bus is wired.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Gary '79 5C
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 613




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2007, 04:19:52 AM »

Tom is right on with the manner to check the wiring on the campsite side of the receptacle. If that is incorrect, you may have higher voltages within your coach here they should not be.. That is 240 on a 120 plug within the coach.
To further the point, Coaches like homes will have two incoming 120 legs (circuits) which get distributed thru out. If you only wire to one side it provides you protection, but you limit your 50 Amp plug to essentially 25 amps. 50 amp service is 25 amps per leg, Two legs coming in, each 120 VAC.

If you can live with utilizing only one side of the 50 Amp 240VAC plug in, and manage the electrical loads, That is a great manner to safeguard yourself and your equipment.
I rarely plug in as I use the coach to get from here to there and donot stay in the coach at the end of the journey. That will come later when I retire ( or quit at my present job, there is no retirement in site for me, always something to do)
Hope this helps.
That simple check of Tom's will save $$$
Logged

Experience is something you get Just after you needed it....
Ocean City, NJ
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2007, 05:02:57 AM »

Quote
50 amp service is 25 amps per leg, Two legs coming in, each 120 VAC.

I hate to dispute you Gary, but that statement is absolutely incorrect.
50 amps service consists of two legs coming in, each 120 volts at 50 amps per leg. If you only use one leg, as Tom says he does, he has 50 amps at 120 volts for a total input capacity of 6,000 watts. If he used both legs he would have a total capacity available of 12,000 (12kw) watts.
For those using a 30 amp service, 30 amps at 120 volts provides 3,600 (3.6kw) watts. I have never heard of any standard service that provides 25 amps of service.
Richard
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 05:06:38 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2007, 05:29:33 AM »

quote "Neutral to leg one should be 120v, leg two to neutral should also be 120v, leg one to leg two should be 240v, ground should not register.  Just a good way to protect your self, no matter which way your bus is wired.  Good Luck, TomC" unquote

At both the power pole and the gen set the neutral is tied to ground. You should measure the same voltage to ground as you do to neutral.
Logged
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 05:34:07 AM »

Quote
"Neutral to leg one should be 120v, leg two to neutral should also be 120v, leg one to leg two should be 240v, ground should not register.  Just a good way to protect your self, no matter which way your bus is wired.  Good Luck, TomC"

At both the power pole and the gen set the neutral is tied to ground. You should measure the same voltage to ground as you do to neutral.
Stan

Thanks Stan for pointing that out, I missed it and that is very important for everyone to know. The only place you would not, should not, can not (to be safe) read any voltage is between neutral and ground.
Richard
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 05:39:59 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6785





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 07:14:03 AM »

Stan- thanks for that very important correction on my post.  No voltage between the neutral and ground is what I was supposed to say-and a very important reading so you know if there is any "shorting" situations with the wiring. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Gary '79 5C
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 613




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 07:14:43 AM »

Richard,

Thanks for the clarification, YOU are correct. The AWG size required for the 50 amp service warrants the full 50 AMP EACH LEG.
Not sure now, what I thinking then, but you have cleared this up for me and hopefully I did not screw toooo many others up before.

Rich,
thanks for helping this po boy from Weirton WVa with this.

I will wait for the second cup of coffee to set in before typing.




« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 11:01:04 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Experience is something you get Just after you needed it....
Ocean City, NJ
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 11:01:42 AM »

Richard,

Thanks for the clarification, YOU are correct. The AWG size required for the 50 amp service warrants the full 50 AMP EACH LEG.
Not sure now, what I thinking then, but you have cleared this up for me and hopefully I did not screw toooo many others up before.

Rich,
thanks for helping this po boy from Weirton WVa with this.

I will wait for the second cup of coffee to set in before typing.

Gary, come on down to Spencer & I will furnish the second cup. LOL
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Gary LaBombard
"Rustless Money Pit"
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 944


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2007, 11:45:41 AM »

I did not see this post until I posted on the one above it, if phil or Richard want to combine it with this post is fine with me but this may help with assurance you have good shore power connected your RV /Bus before actually connecting up to it.  My post has to do with Phil's near catastrophe on his bus at a camp ground that was improperly wired. 
Sorry for the double posting on this.
Gary
Logged

Gary
pvcces
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 752





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2007, 08:36:31 PM »

That business about the full wire size for 50amps per leg does a nice job of clearing up why 50 amp service has to be 240 volt; if the power was furnished as 120 volts only, then the neutral would have to be two neutrals or about a three gauge wire, if it was even legal to use only one neutral.

Tom Caffrey
Logged

Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2007, 07:26:38 AM »

Mine is wired in the standard 50 amp 120/240 volt configuration.  It seems silly not to, as the costs are about the same.  I have a 20 amp 220/240 outlet in the center bay for those times I need to weld or use the plasma cutter.  It's much easier than dragging out that heavy 70' 10-3 cable to weld.  Also, I have an outlet in the bus for a  portable space heater that runs on 240 volts @ 20 amps.  It's very quiet and puts out around 9k btu.  It's nice for quickly heating the bus or for sites that have 50 amp service with power included. 

I'd wire 'normally' with both legs of 120 volts, neutral, and ground.  You can always combine the two legs with an adapter plug or the cable itself.  Also, my generator puts out 50 amps @ 120 volts, so my transfer switch combines both legs when it selects generator, or both legs when plugged in.

David
Logged
redbusnut
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2007, 02:27:51 AM »

Richard, Iam hooking up a 50 amp RV pole this weekend and think I got it right,but get confused by different posts and was wondering if you would post little drawing showing wire hook-up.Thanks for any help.
Leon
Logged
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2007, 06:44:18 AM »

Leon, I do not know how to make a drawing to post here. Perhaps someone like Sean will step up to the plate. Sorry
Richard

Richard, Iam hooking up a 50 amp RV pole this weekend and think I got it right,but get confused by different posts and was wondering if you would post little drawing showing wire hook-up.Thanks for any help.
Leon
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2007, 07:37:30 AM »

  Does this work as a picture?                                     


                                                  Bare or Green Ground
                                                          *

                        Black   120 volt hot   |        | 120 volt hot  Black or Red

                                                           |
                                                       White Neutral
Logged
redbusnut
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2007, 08:29:16 AM »

Hi Rachard, Thanks thats perfect,because there were so many adapters with the bus I bought,I was second guessing which receiver  to buy. Thanks again.
Leon
Logged
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2007, 09:07:47 AM »

You're welcome, but you really need to thank Stan. He is who posted the drawing. LOL
Richard
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
redbusnut
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 09:21:14 AM »

Thanks Stan,am on my way to buy plug as that is configeration of the main extention with out adapters.
 thanks again.
Leon
Logged
redbusnut
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2007, 05:17:59 PM »

Stan, When I wired my 50 amp plug from panel box in garage, I put red 110,black 110 , Ground to ground
block, (bare wire), Then white to nuetral block. I read where neutreal and ground should be bonded,should I put both neutral and ground in same block.
I ask question at home- depot and they look at me like Iam crazy. It is working allright, but I don't want to hurt someone or burn up my dream.
Thank Leon
Logged
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2007, 05:32:42 PM »

redbusnut: The only place the ground (bare wire) and neutral (white wire) are connected together is in the service entrance panel (the breaker panel closest to the meter). There are only three wires coming from the utility company to your meter. One of these wires is ground, and in the service entrance panel you connect the bare ground wires and the white neutral wires to the same point. In actual fact, the bare wires are connected directly to the metal box (or to a bus bar connected to the box) and the white wires are connected to a bus bar which is connected to the metal box. From that point on, the bare ground and the white neutral are not connected together. The neutral is a current carrying wire. The ground wire only carries current when there is a fault in the system, to prevent the current from going to ground through your body.
Logged
Hi yo silver
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 818




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2007, 05:48:03 PM »

The reference for clarifying these questions is NFPA standard #70, The National Electrical Code, published by the National Fire Protection Association.  If it's not available at the library, or your local fire dep't., it can be purchased through NFPA on line.  There are also guidebooks available that explain some of the more complex issues. 

Back in my first life I had access to current versions, but not any more.  And I won't try to comment on grounding requirements 'cause I'm too rusty!  Another resource for guidebooks on the subject is electrical supply houses.  That 220 is hot stuff, be careful.
Logged

Blue Ridge Mountains of VA   Hi Yo Silver! MC9
redbusnut
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2007, 01:22:39 AM »

Stan, Iam going to admit, Iam dumest person on this board, Should I connect nuetral and ground on same bar in panel box.
Thanks Leon
Logged
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2007, 05:18:38 AM »

redbusnut: In your previous post you were talking about the wiring in your garage (I think). If you are still talking about your garage, which I assume has a subpanel, and is not the maiin service entrance panel, then you do not connect the ground and neutral together.

Remember that I am talking about the usual residential service and not industrial service where you may have a splitter box sending 200 amp service to more than one building.

If you have changed course, (without telling us)  and you are now talking about your bus, there are different answers depending on how and what your panel is connected to. If it is only hard wired  to an onboard genset then it would fall under the rules of main entrance panel. If it is ever connected to shore power, then it is a subpanel with isolated neutral. If an inverter is thrown into the mixture, different wiring is required because of internal wiring in the inverter.

There is a lot of info on this subject in the board archives, including wiring diagrams for different hookups.
Logged
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2007, 05:36:10 AM »

Hi Yo Silver: I try to explain electric and electronic questions in a manner that is safe and functional. The board has members in a multitude of countries that do not use the US codes and regulations.

In this thread, the profile for redthebusnut gives no indication of where he lives.  If Leon lives in the US, then I assume that he should meet federal, state and county regulations

I live in Canada where most of the electrical code is much tougher than the US codes. In my previous life I had to make changes to many items imported into Canada that passed inspection in their country of origin.
Logged
redbusnut
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2007, 07:34:09 AM »

Hi Yo Silver, Iam in Canada to, Vancouver
Leon
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!