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Author Topic: Audio/video equipment?  (Read 3351 times)
H3Jim
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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2007, 11:12:40 AM »

Not much to say, its digital, its the new standard, and already they are talking about replacing it.  Cables are prohibitively expensive. It was cheaper for me to buy a second DVD player for the back than to buy the cable to run from the front to the TV in the bedroom.

Maybe google it.

What is HDMI?
HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is the first industry-supported, uncompressed, all-digital audio/video interface. HDMI provides an interface between any audio/video source, such as a set-top box, DVD player, and A/V receiver and an audio and/or video monitor, such as a digital television (DTV).

HDMI supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video, plus multi-channel digital audio on a single cable. It transmits all ATSC HDTV standards and supports 8-channel digital audio, with bandwidth to spare to accommodate future enhancements and requirements.

Who supports HDMI?
The HDMI Founders include leading consumer electronics manufacturers Hitachi, Matsushita Electric Industrial (Panasonic), Philips, Sony, Thomson (RCA), Toshiba, and Silicon Image. Digital Content Protection, LLC (a subsidiary of Intel) is providing High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) for HDMI. In addition, HDMI has the support of major motion picture producers Fox and Universal, and system operators DirecTV, EchoStar (Dish Network) as well as CableLabs.

How do consumers benefit from HDMI?
The new HDMI digital interconnect provides:
Superior, uncompressed digital video and audio quality
Simple, user-friendly connector that replaces the maze of cabling behind the entertainment center
Integrated remote control
A popular interface enabling the transmission of high-definition content. HDMI opens the floodgate of digital content from major motion picture producers

When will the HDMI specification be released?
The HDMI 1.0 specification is available now. CE manufacturers may begin designing products incorporating the HDMI standard-addressing consumer demand for HD programming and for DTVs that display this content.

When will prototypes of HDMI products be available?
HDMI-based prototype devices were first demonstrated at CES in January 2003. The CE industry is currently transitioning from DVI to HDMI connections. Backward- compatible with the DVI 1.0 specification, HDMI enables both multi-channel digital audio and uncompressed video transmission over a single cable and connector, and in combination with HDCP addresses content providers' requirement for a secure interface to protect high-quality content from unauthorized redistribution.

What is the life expectancy of HDMI?
HDTV uses less than 1/2 of HDMI's available 5 Gbps bandwidth. With capacity to spare, HDMI can incorporate new technology advancements and capabilities long into the foreseeable future.

Does HDMI provide a secure interface?
HDMI, when used in combination with HDCP, provides a secure audio/video interface that meets the security requirements of content providers and systems operators.

What are the advantages of HDMI over existing analog interfaces such as composite, S-Video and component video?

Quality HDMI transfers uncompressed digital audio and video for the highest, crispest image quality.
All Digital HDMI ensures an all-digital rendering of video without the losses associated with analog interfaces and their unnecessary digital-to-analog conversions.
Low-cost HDMI provides the quality and functionality of a digital interface while also supporting uncompressed video formats in a simple, cost-effective manner.
Audio HDMI supports multiple audio formats, from standard stereo to multi-channel surround-sound.
Ease-of-use HDMI combines video and multi-channel audio into a single cable, eliminating the cost, complexity, and confusion of multiple cables currently used in A/V systems.
Intelligence HDMI supports communication between the video source (such as a DVD player) and the DTV, enabling new functionality.

Is HDMI backward-compatible with DVI (Digital Visual Interface)?
Yes, HDMI is fully backward-compatible with DVI using the CEA-861 profile for DTVs. HDMI DTVs will display video received from existing DVI-equipped products, and DVI-equipped TVs will display video from HDMI sources.

Will current HD TVs and set-top boxes using DVI-HDTV be compatible with HDMI devices?
Yes. Currently there are TVs with DVI-HDTV inputs available from a variety of manufacturers. Those devices will be compatible with future HDMI-equipped products.

What types of video does HDMI support?
HDMI has the capacity to support existing high-definition video formats (720p, 1080i, and even 1080p). It also has the flexibility to support enhanced definition formats such as 480p, as well as standard definition formats such as NTSC or PAL.

Does HDMI accommodate long cable lengths?
Yes. HDMI technology has been designed to use standard copper cable construction at long lengths. In order to allow cable manufacturers to improve their products through the use of new technologies, HDMI specifies the required performance of a cable but does not specify a maximum cable length. Cables are expected to be lengths of up to 15 meters. As semiconductor technology improves, even longer stretches can be reached with fiber optic cables, and with active cable technologies such as amplifiers or repeaters.
 

 

 

 


5 Things You Need To Know About 1080p And HDMI™
1. Why all the hoopla about 1080p? Most early adopters saw no improvement from their "up-converting" DVD players, even after going digital with HDMI™. Why? Because all they were really seeing was enhanced 480p on a 1080i display. The early hype about 1080p made us think it was the next big thing. Is it? New HDTVs that are "full HD 1080p" are shipping now so let's take a look at the top 5 reasons to go 1080p.

1. How much better is 1080p than 720p?
225%! It's a huge difference. The soundtrack also improves by 50% with the new totally lossless, bit-for-bit Dolby True HD and DTS Master HD multi-channel audio content.

2. Is this content available now?
Yes. It is exclusively available on Blu-ray disc players, soon to be on Playstation 3 (Blu-ray format) and 2nd generation HD DVD players. These two HD disc formats were created to deliver the 1080p experience to HDTV enthusiasts. The players decode Dolby True HD and DTS Master HD so you dont need a new preamp or receiver. Just feed the PCM output of the player to PCM input on your audio system and get ready to experience the widest dynamic range of any audio content in history.

3. Do I have to use an HDMI™ connection to get 1080p?
Yes. HDMI™ is the only way for two good reasons. First, it's digital all the way with no conversion or compression. Second, its protected by HDCP, the studios' way of keeping the best version of its copyrighted content protected from piracy. The players will not ouput 1080p from the component RGB output, only 480p, the current DVD standard.

4. Do I need v1.3 HDMI™ in order to see the real 1080p or hear the Dolby True HD/DTS Master HD soundtrack?
No. v1.3 HDMI™ (see chart above) was released as a specification "framework" last summer for hardware and software creators who are now beginning to work on the next "next" generation of HD called 1440p. v1.3 products have not yet begun to ship and there is no reason to wait for that. v1.2 HDMI™ will handle all the data at 1080p and the soundtracks too, with plenty of headroom to spare. No need to panic about this. What you have now, even if its v1.1 HDMI™ will work fine with 1080p.

5. What will I need to make 1080p work in my existing system?
PureLink™. In order to view and distribute multiple 1080p sources to multiple 1080p displays, you will need a switching and distribution system capable or delivering 1080p video with no data errors to your new 1080p display, while at the same time routing your HD audio content to your legacy receiver or preamp. To our knowledge, PureLink™ makes the only devices of this kind with full HDCP support on every output. This is important because the studios are watching for piracy of this new generation of content and intend to vigorously prosecute illegal downloaders, just as the music industry did in the Napster case. PureLink™'s models are legal. Be sure to ask the vendor you buy from for a written guarantee that you will be safe from any legal action taken by the studios. PureLink™ is the only brand that puts this in writing for your protection because we are the only company thus far to do it according to the HDCP mandate.




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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2007, 04:13:26 PM »

Thanks Jim for the info. That is all new stuff to me, so i will have to reread it later tonight and try to digest it. I have to build my cabinet first, then install the head unit and speakers. I am waiting until June probably to buy the new tv,, i will just keep using my old 13" until then. I think June is the official date all sets sold have to have digital tuners... or is that the date the broadcasts all switch to digital? Not sure right now which is which. My daughter wants the bus to take her and a couple friends to Mexico in June for a couple weeks, so will need the new one permanently mounted for that trip!
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2007, 06:56:53 PM »

H3Jim
I have no idea what you were talking about, its Waaaayy over my head.

I have been looking for quite a while for a system that is pretty much all in one. Here is what I have been contemplating.

I plan to install an ONKYO CS-V720s mini shelf system. It has everything that I need and more, and its reviews are great. I have heard one set up in an electronics store and the sound is much better than you would expect from a small package.
In case the link dosn't work it is a DVD player, CD player,  AM-FM receiver, Sattelite radio ready, and its Ipod ready. I plan to hook it to my 20" SVA LCD TV / Monitor through the house inverter.
If I have issues with the CD player going down the road, I will just use my Pioneer head unit that is already installed.     
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http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=CS-V720S&modelid=8&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1
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Tim Strommen
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2007, 07:57:18 PM »

Jim - Great info on HDMI (I work for Anchor Bay, the makers of the DVDO video scalers, and scaling/deinterlacing ICs).  Do you have the web-link for the last half of what you posted (looks like somehting to do with PureLink)?


All,

      Considering the requested feature set, I think it would be wise for me to mention (despite some likely groans...), that a "Car-puter" would suit all of these needs and then some.  There are several manufactureres who are making Mini/Micro-ITX (not ATX) and even "Nano-ITX" motherboards which will run full versions of Windows or Linux/Unix (what ever your favorite is...), yet draw very little power (less than 100Watts).  With the appropriate hardware these may have a 7" touch screen (like the in-dash head units), GPS via serial or USB, Wireless Internet (either WiFi or Cellular), MP3 playing (iTunes, Winamp, Windows Media Player, etc.), DVD playing (Windows Media Center, Power DVD, WinDVD, etc.), TV and FM radio (with USB input dongles), data logging and storage of trip information (MS Excel), and what ever else your imagination can stick in a PC.

By consolidating the PC/entertainment system into a Car-puter, you can reduce you space utilization, and with a VGA switch-box and a USB console extender, you can place a second "terminal" (Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse) in a place on-board that is more comfortable to use while in station (including USB Floppy and CD or DVD drives).

There are a bunch of companies making 12 and 24volt DC "DC-to-DC" power supplies which will run right off the battery (so that you don't need to add the "loss" of the inverter), and with a hacked-up RF wireless multimedia keyboard - you can cram the Windows Multimedia buttons somewhere on the steering wheel, just like the expensive wireless remotes some of these head units offer (which will give you volume, mute, and player controls).  By having the Car-Puter hooked up to another multimedia keyboard (with USB you can have as many as you want), you can access the power state buttons to automatically "sleep" and "resume" the computer with some simple circuitry upon starting and shutting down the rig's engine.

Just a thought for 'yall...

Cheers!

-Tim

P.S. If you know enough about Windows XP, you can use the included "Briefcase" function to sync up your home "desktop" MP3, Wave, AAC, or even DVD "VOB" files with the bus "car-puter" collection if a wireless connection detects your home's wireless access point.  This way, you don't have to manually carry your data to your bus before trips, you just park your bus with the computer on, and let it "sync up before shutdown" (so it turns off when it's done). -T
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 11:11:27 AM by Tim Strommen » Logged

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DD 6V92TA (MUI, 275HP) - Allison HT740
Conversion Progress: 10% (9-years invested, 30 to go Smiley)
Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2007, 08:37:13 PM »

Tim,

These "Car-Puters" sound interesting. You wouldn't happen to have and brand names and model numbers would you?

I use two full size towers right now, (his and hers), but they do take up a lot of room. I'd like to downsize, but don't want to

use laptops.

Thanks,

Dallas
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H3Jim
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2007, 09:18:10 PM »

Tim, I just googled HDMI and it was on the first page.  I thought it was better to cut and paste than make him go look.

No doubt our electronics will evolve a lot over the next years, and the pace is accelerating.
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2007, 10:17:52 PM »

Thanks Jim.  Actually, the reason I asked was some of the last half of the stuff for the "PureLink" is utter BS (HDMI 1.3 is the only version that supports Dolby True-HD, and dts-HD) Grin  I want to point this stuff out to the guys at Silicon Image (who designed the interface).  It doesn't reflect negatively on you - but it does show that even on a manufacturer-published website some Marketing/Sales groups produce a bunch of inacurate or misleading information and present it as "fact".  This is more (in my opinion) a reflection of the fairly low consumer knowledge about HDMI and the associated HDCP digital encryption that's used - coupled with a rediculously loose HDMI "standard" (where about 50% or more of the interface features are "optional" - thus capabilites are further mis-quoted, or not guarantee-able).


Dallas,

   VIA, has been doing miniature consolidated mainboards for about five years now (they were the first, and they are based about 6 miles away from me in Fremont, CA).   The Epia Nano-ITX board is the smallest board on the market at 12cm square! This is about the size of a CD, and has CPU, Video controller, Network controller, Sound controller, IDE and SATA harddrive controller, TV out encoder (this is additional to the VGA out), USB Controller, and a jack that allows either a DVI or LVDS video output to be used for digital displays (instead of VGA).

In the pipe is the new Pico-ITX (Epia PX) main board which measures a tiny 100mm x 72mm.

Of course VIA isn't the only game in town now, and others make boards that support Athalon or Pentium processors - Albatron actually has a Mini-ITX board that supports the newest AM2-socket AMD micros, with DDR2 memory, and HDMI output.


For system builders/retailers,

Mini-box is one of the popular system integrators.

MP3Car is a user's group for in-dash PCs (Car-puters), but they sell them too.

For screens, Xenarc makes a 7" touch LCD monitor, both a swivel/pedistal mount, and a slide-out/flip-up single din type (like the finished head units do)

Xenarc also makes some PC's.

If you're looking for cases to build your own, Travala makes some good ones that are fairly compact.



I think my favorite web-store for mini/nano-itx stuff is "Logic Supply".

Logic Supply has an almost comically small power supply (but it still does the job at 120watts!), and they offer a few other configurations and power ratings.

Hope 'yall find this interesting and useful.

Cheers!

-Tim
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 10:51:10 AM by Tim Strommen » Logged

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Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2007, 02:50:51 AM »

Thanks, Tim!

I've ben out of the system building/ computer repair business for a few years.
I'll have to look into building one of the systems. It would certainly take up a lot less space, considering the board is the size of 2 packs of cigarettes!

Dallas
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H3Jim
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2007, 07:09:38 AM »

And Thanks Tim for not jumping all over me, but for quietly correcting the misinformation I helped spread.  It helps make this board a great place to be.
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2007, 10:59:29 AM »

No problem guys,

and Jim - I try to keep it positive and acurate unless someone is suggestion something that is blatantly unsafe (otherwise, a reader might think a post is an instruction manual, where all aspects of the task - including safety and liability were considered).  I'm sure many readers may not have had some of the frightening experiences of the danger associated with a 40K-lbs vehicle.  I try not to point fingers or trample people whenever possible, especially if one is paraphrasing another source Grin.

Cheers!

-Tim
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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2007, 03:00:26 PM »

I'm all for running 12 volt equipment on 12 volts vs an inverter and 110 volts.  The only issue I can think of is since when has a 12 volt vehicle system been 12 volts?  Don't they charge at 13.8 to 14.3 or something like that?  Several pieces of automobile audio equipment I've owned have power output rated (in watts) with a 12 volt input and a 13.8 input, so I know it has some effect.  Are the home LCD's as tolerant of the higher voltages?  If one were to use a 24 volt to 12 volt converter / regulator, that would probably eliminate the issue, for those with 24 volt elec. systems.  There are numerous cheapo 12 volt inverters that could easily handle an LCD TV, even if the TV's adapter did convert back to 12 volts.  I probably need to connect an LCD monitor to one of my small inverters and check the DC current draw with the monitor turned off.  Surely those 100 watt inverters don't pull much with esentially no load.  I guess I'm wondering how many have run TV's that require a 12 volt input reliably directly from the bus' elec. system for any length of time. 

David
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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2007, 03:53:23 PM »

I think you will find that there is no such thing as a piece of 12 volt equipment. That is a nominal voltage for general talking purposes. No automobile ever was rated at an actual 12 volts DC. The same for the 24 volts you mentioned. The actual measured DC voltage is closer to 28 volts instead of 24.
Each cell in a six cell, 12 volt battery is rated at a nominal 2.3 volts per cell. This comes out to 13.8 volts at full charge.
Richard
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2007, 04:12:32 PM »

It's typical to find a +/-5% tolerance with respect to the input supply of most consumer gear.

For 12VDC, this would be +5% (or 12 x 1.05 = 12.6Volts) to -5% (or 12 x .95 = 11.4Volts).  Anything outside this range (positive) will burn up the internal power supply or (negative) cause the unit to not function properly/at-all.

There are 24-to-12 volt converters out there - but I'm not sure how well the off-the-shelf units deal with voltage sag (as the battery discharges or a stater is cranked).  Some I'm certain are designed to maintain operation well out of spec.


With an inverter, you'll lose roughly 25% of the rating in the conversion (this is an "addative loss", as in - you add it to the rating to derrive the total load on the DC input wires).  Some inverters are fitted with a dual inverter, one is a high power inverter (good for the specefied rating of the device), and the other is a low power "sense" inverter (for detecting when a load is turned on).  In the case of an "El-Cheapo" inverter, it will drive the output side of the inverter no matter what is being drawn (and that roughly 25% loss will persist despite not actually powering anything).

If you have an LCD display with a good standby supply - you'll be able to tune the good inverter's load detection feature to only kick on the high power portion when the back-light is turned on for use (the CCFL backlights are the power hungry part of an LCD).

Imagine running a 250Watt Inverter with the LCD "off" - if it is still losing about 25% (250 x .25 = 62.5Watts), that's like leaving a headlight on...

If you go the DC-to-DC converter route - consider that you may need to add power filtration, as most household product power supplies aren't designed to deal with alternator noise Wink.

Cheers!

-Tim
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 09:44:04 PM by Tim Strommen » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2007, 08:15:52 PM »

Tim, if what you say is correct, then every 12 volt item in a vehicle would be ruined as soon as the vehicle is started and the alternator starts charging. The lowest charge voltage that I have ever seen recommended is 13.6-13.8 volts. 12.6 volts is significantly below the float /charge voltage of any 12 volt vehicle. In fact if the vehicle is running and the voltage is only 12.6 volts, then the alternator is not working.
Richard

It's typical to find a +/-5% tolerance with respect to the input supply of most consumer gear.

For 12VDC, this would be +5% (or 12 x 1.05 = 12.6Volts) to -5% (or 12 x .95 = 11.4Volts).  Anything outside this range (positive) will burn up the internal power supply or (negative) cause the unit to not function properly/at-all.

There are 24-to-12 volt converters out there - but I'm not sure how well the off-the-shelf units deal with voltage sag (as the battery discharges or a strater is cranked).  Some I'm certain are designed to maintain operation well out of spec.


With an inverter, you'll lose roughly 25% of the rating in the conversion (this is an "addative loss", as in - you add it to the rating to derrive the total load on the DC input wires).  Some inverters are fitted with a dual inverter, one is a high power inverter (good for the specefied rating of the device), and the other is a low power "sense" inverter (for detecting when a load is turned on).  In the case of an "El-Cheapo" inverter, it will drive the output side of the inverter no matter what is being drawn (and that roughly 25% loss will persist despite not actually powering anything).

If you have an LCD display with a good standby supply - you'll be able to tune the good inverter's load detection feature to only kick on the high power portion when the back-light is turned on for use (the CCFL backlights are the power hungry part of an LCD).

Imagine running a 250Watt Inverter with the LCD "off" - if it is still losing about 25% (250 x .25 = 62.5Watts), that's like leaving a headlight on...

If you go the DC-to-DC converter route - consider that you may need to add power filtration, as most household product power supplies aren't designed to deal with alternator noise Wink.

Cheers!

-Tim
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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2007, 08:33:14 PM »

I think radios and TV's that are desinged for vehicles would be ok, as they would take the charge voltage into account.  I think Tim may be talking about using a monitor or other piece of equipment that uses a nomial 12 volts, and you are tapping into the bus batteries to power it.  Two very different scenarios.
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Jim Stewart
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Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
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