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Author Topic: Found a diesel genset for a bus nut!  (Read 4216 times)
grantgoold
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« on: March 22, 2007, 06:16:52 AM »

I hope this isn't violating any board policy but I found this diesel genset for sale on craigslist and thought someone who has been looking for one might be able to get a good deal. I already have one Grin

Commercial ADS are not permitted.


Hope this helps somebody.

Grant
Sacramento
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:05:10 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Grant Goold
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 07:16:18 AM »

Why the heck can't we point someone at a good deal if the poster is not the seller and isn't related to the seller in any way?

By this standard I fully expect one of the moderators to remove the link to Rockler Hardware in the cabinet latch thread.

Brian elfert
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 07:30:14 AM »

Brian, the attached post from the moderators board pretty well establishes what we are to permit. The Rockler hardware is under $50 and is of course permitted.
Richard

Quote
Mike did mention he saw a few posts promoting other off-site commercial sites, and thought those folk should pay for an ad.  I have to agree as he is footing the bill for our fine site.   I totally missed those posts..

I think those post are from individuals trying to help other busnuts, not from company employees promoting their company. But, I agree, they are getting free advertising. Perhaps we need to wath closer and delete addresses when found. It is a fine line between advertising and helping fellow busnuts. On another site, I know of people that would post a "looking for" under a different name, then reply with a "I have one for sale" under there name.


Why the heck can't we point someone at a good deal if the poster is not the seller and isn't related to the seller in any way?

By this standard I fully expect one of the moderators to remove the link to Rockler Hardware in the cabinet latch thread.

Brian elfert
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:36:24 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 09:05:01 AM »

Hi is the gen set being sold by a private seller? what you say is no comercial ads and yet the locks are being offered by a company . Huh
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 09:21:34 AM »

I would think that  there ought to be a line drawn between someone actually selling something, and someone pointing out where to get it.
By the rules that you are applying to this thread, the one last week where we were asked "where to get Sikaflex and what kind to use"- and I answered with a phone number for IBP, should also be axed, along with TONS of where to questions that get answered in an effort to help us all out in our bus madness.  There is a big difference between one of us posting an actual ad or pointing to one, and one of us asking for a source and being answered, or pointing out a great deal that we're otherwise not involved financially with.
As it is, where's the line?  If Grant had said, "there's a great deal for a diesel generator on Craigslist, go find it", likely nobody would have cared.
If he'd said, "There's a great deal for a diesel generator on Craigslist, search "RV diesel genset" there and you'll find it, it's likely nobody would have cared.  Had he said "There's a great deal I found for a diesel generator on Craigslist, ad # XXXXXX and it's not me or anyone I know selling it", nobody should have cared.  However if he'd have crossed the line and said "I'm selling my generator on Craigslist" or any variation of that, then he's in the wrong.
 
That said, I implore you, the moderator(s) to clarify this, come up with a clear policy, and be clear about how it's enforced....because as it is, the rules seem to be quite clear, but your intrepretation and implementation is quite the opposite....

My vote for the rules: Nothing for sale is allowed... but pointing out where someone can get something if you're not financially involved is allowed.  Clear, simple, better for us all.... and if some folks push the rules with fake posts and aliases, and don't have the ethics to respect to do the right thing, well, humans always find ways to get around rules, that's just how we are.  Someone somewhere is always going to do it no matter how much you restrict (or attempt to) the rest of us, so get over it and move on....
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 09:27:51 AM by boogiethecat » Logged

1962 Crown
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2007, 09:35:42 AM »

Brian, the attached post from the moderators board pretty well establishes what we are to permit. The Rockler hardware is under $50 and is of course permitted.

Does US Coach have a paid ad here?

Lots of board users refer folks to US Coach for parts that cost way more than $50.  The same with IBP and others.

It is one thing for someone to advertise something they are selling, but entirely another for someone to respond to a request or point out a good deal they have no financial interest in.  It is unfortunate, but Mak's new online classifieds seem to be a total bust so far.  Not a single ad online right now.  Gotta have ads to draw traffic, but no one will run an ad without traffic.

Brian Elfert
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2007, 09:56:22 AM »

The link was to a specific item on another board that is considered a competitor to MAK's classified board. Most of the links posted are not considered competitors to the MAK board.
Hopefully Phil will spell out some more guidelines for us to use in the future. Currently, this is the published policy as posted by Phil. I have highlighted the specific items that pertain to what we are discussing, as I interpret it.
Richard


Welcome to the new board.  This is a quick start.

First things first: Forum Rules
This BB is intended for the sole purpose of sharing conversion and bus related information among visitors to our web site. These rules must be followed in order for us to continue this free exchange of info. No bad mouthing of any business or individual is permitted. Absolutely no items for sale are to be posted. Interested in placing a classified or web ad, please contact our advertising dept. at (714)799-0062 or e-mail to: web@busconversions.com.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 10:07:04 AM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged

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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2007, 10:15:14 AM »

The link was to a specific item on another board that is considered a competitor to MAK's classified board. Most of the links posted are not considered competitors to the MAK board.

So, the real issue comes out.  The removal of the link has nothing to do with it being a link to something for sale, but rather where the link goes to.

Personally, I don't really consider Craigslist a competitor to Mak's own ads, but rules are rules.

Brian
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2007, 10:31:03 AM »

Brian, this is a copy of an ad currently in the MAK Classified Ad section:

Quote
12.5KW Kohler/Yanmar
RV generator
Model 12.5CC067-RV w/slide & remote radiator. [0706]
$4250 OBO
Richard 608-862-2344 in WI

If the link would just have been to Craigs List, then I probably would not have deleted it, but that is a judgement call in the case of each moderator. As stated by another moderator in another post
Quote
It is a fine line between advertising and helping fellow busnuts.
The guidelines are to remove ads as soon as possible though. 
Richard



quote author=belfert link=topic=3660.msg33263#msg33263 date=1174583714]
The link was to a specific item on another board that is considered a competitor to MAK's classified board. Most of the links posted are not considered competitors to the MAK board.

So, the real issue comes out.  The removal of the link has nothing to do with it being a link to something for sale, but rather where the link goes to.

Personally, I don't really consider Craigslist a competitor to Mak's own ads, but rules are rules.

Brian
[/quote]
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 10:42:47 AM »

Ok you can not tell me its for sale on a list will you tell me the seller email or tel# i just want a good priced gen set,if it cant be put hear call 2284937913 or email.
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 10:55:24 AM »

Is eBay now a competitor, too?  I see references to eBay, including item numbers, in posts fairly often.  If I point to an article in a local paper, is that a violation (the paper has classifieds that could contain a bus).  When somebody suggests contacting MCI for a specific part, is that a violation (they sell used buses, too).  Are ALL the moderators using the EXACT same criteria when censoring posts containing items for sale?  According to the rules posted, the original poster would have to take out his own ad for this to have been ok?    It seems like things get taken to extremes quite often, it seems.

David
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 10:55:33 AM »

Ok,

Then EVERYONE that uses this BBS please subscribe to the Magazine. No Magazine No Play Here....

The BBS is really starting to rehash all the stuff like the m******** ... Gee Now I see why.

This is in effect what looks to be happening... Only buy from paid advertisers... Censor anything you don't like...

Note: This was not meant to be mean or as an attack. I don't really care either way.

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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 11:16:41 AM »

Hi Folks,

Richard is only trying to abide by what rules Mike has laid out.  Please remember that us moderators are all just volunteers!!  When we do something, we are trying to stick to the things that Mike talks about as we don't want to do something which may jeaprodize this fine site he has provided us busnuts with.  We always do try to put the busnut community first, and "biting the hand that feeds this site" isn't too good.

At the same time, Mike has never once even hinted that he would shut the site down, etc., it's just something that goes across our minds I suppose.  He has been extremely supportive. 

I'll try to get more clarification from MAK  & pass it along.


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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2007, 11:21:37 AM »

Well.... head moderators, do you see my point YET?

Probably not, so just let it continue!

Ace
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 11:53:23 AM »

Hi Grant & Folks,

I would not have a problem with the direction of a generator sale if [my first rule No Prices, second, I always check MAK's listings first]

If MAK has no products of the same, then it's just common sense to help a member to find something of need with a direction or link.

MY Word of Advice- Always check what MAK is listing first....They are paying him for an ad with the hope in selling his product!

We Must Respect That because, he is supporting this fourm for us to use at no cost.

With Respect
Nick Badame-
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2007, 12:17:55 PM »

YOU PEOPLE THAT RUN AND I SAY RUN LOOSELY ARE VERY VERY LIKE DICTATORS AND OH OH DONT FORGET IF ONE OF YOUR BUDDIES WANTS TO SELL OR ENDORSE A PRODUCT WELLLLLLL THATS OK

SEEEEYYAAAAAA

CHRIS ARMSTRONG
231 846 0880
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2007, 12:26:36 PM »

Sorry You Had to Leave so SOON Chris


Nick-
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2007, 12:34:11 PM »

My bad, in no way was I trying to subvert the rules. I guess I did not see the competition between MAK classified and this item on the "clist" . I was only trying to send the busnut group a heads up. I now see the variety of opinions and appreciate the financial and non-financial support for this board. I personally am very grateful for the information I receive and would stop immediately my conversion project if the board no longer functioned as an educational tool.

I apologize for kicking the hornet's nest over. In the future, when not sure of the policy, I will send an email to the moderators and get their approval first.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

Regards,

Grant
Sacramento
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2007, 12:39:44 PM »

Hi Grant & Folks,

I would not have a problem with the direction of a generator sale if [my first rule No Prices, second, I always check MAK's listings first]

Nick Badame-

Nick, you did not see the posting but it did break both your rules. The price was listed ($5,000) and there was almost an identical item on the MAK classified. There was also a photograph and some other technical details.
Richard
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2007, 12:50:56 PM »

First, Grant, No need to Aplologize.....

It's a honest mistake. Truely.


Second, Richard, I didn't see the post at our moderators board. ?

Nick-
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2007, 12:53:53 PM »

The post is still here with the link removed. The link is on the moderator board.
Richard

First, Grant, No need to Aplologize.....

It's a honest mistake. Truely.


Second, Richard, I didn't see the post at our moderators board. ?

Nick-
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
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« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2007, 08:16:12 PM »

Moderators are great but need keep improving as times go along. After all we are all human being........we are thriving to do the best ways possible.

However this my opinions as follow;
MAK board's moderator should have never allow it in the post in the first place if it not within the rule as per Mike. But to have confer with the poster for correction if possible. In this case moderator is to ask poster for a link (Craigs List) to this ad before being post on the MAK board.

This way no body would have known what happen.........now it already happen to make more confusion & upsetting.

Beside it moderator's job to keep it simple...not us poster because there will be someone who want to post anything that not caring what the rule is.

Moderators...if you want this job of keeping within the rule...then moderator it and confer that poster to get it right before on the board. Otherwise let it go.
 
About $50 limit .........should never be in the rule because if same item is $49 at one place & $51 at another place.  This rule should be removed.

Moderating this board is NOT a part time job...its a full time. To keep any of "uncorrected" post being leaking into this board....is to have moderators confer each other it schedule to be policing the board full time or to have new posts be on hold until it been reviewed.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 09:44:38 PM by Sojourner » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2007, 09:24:51 PM »

Rather ridiculous to say that MAK is in competition with Craig's list.  That's like me saying that my bus conversion is trying to compete with Winnebago.  Mak may have a few listings, but how can that be competing with Craig's list that has hundreds of thousands of listings in just about every category you could think of?  Let's get realistic here.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2007, 10:17:58 PM »

I like it when others share what they have found or their good deals. I feel that if they are not profiting from sharing the information, then it should be allowed; otherwise take out a classified if thatís the rules. I donít see how there could ever be much money made if the other board (BNO) is available to list for free. There are a lot of us here that cross between the two, and honestly that is one feature that I really like about the other one. Oh, and can I mention ebay? I admit I am just about everywhere, looking at everybodyís stuff. I do subscribe to the magazine, but I know that only goes so far in support of this site. I would think that the real money to be made is to make the site as popular as possible to attract the real commercial advertising money. I am not in any way an expert in any of this, but it seems thatís what successful websites do.

While Iím here, this is a site I have been going to for years and thought I would share it with those who havenít heard of it:

http://www.fatwallet.com/c/18/  (No bus connections so it should be safe)

I have landed some screaming deals through it. It takes a few days to get the hang of it but I have found it to be a great web resource when I am in the shopping mode.
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2007, 03:58:36 AM »

I suggested at the beginning of this new board format that folks should be able to advertise anything bus related, no matter the value
IF THEY SUBSCRIBE TO THE MAGAZINE
Seems like a no brainer to me, but what do I know?
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2007, 07:48:26 AM »

Quote
I suggested at the beginning of this new board format that folks should be able to advertise anything bus related, no matter the value
IF THEY SUBSCRIBE TO THE MAGAZINE
Seems like a no brainer to me, but what do I know?

I agree. Seems like a reasonable compromise.
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2007, 11:31:17 AM »

I suggested at the beginning of this new board format that folks should be able to advertise anything bus related, no matter the value
IF THEY SUBSCRIBE TO THE MAGAZINE
Seems like a no brainer to me, but what do I know?

Do we really want the forum overrun by ads from people who subscribe to the magazine?

A magazine subscription costs less than a classified ad so folks will end up buying subscriptions just to advertise here.  Maybe it would work with a seperate forum just for ads.

Brian
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2007, 02:16:27 PM »

The other board is not overrun by ads. The more magazines you sell, the higher the revenue gained by subscriptions and ads (commercial). That would mean more money. Letís face it; I donít think that the paid ads now amount to much at all.
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2007, 02:55:03 PM »



"Do we really want the forum overrun by ads from people who subscribe to the magazine?"

I don't know! Now that I think about it, it may not be such a bad idea! I would rather be over run by 400  mag scribers that use their "real" name than those here that don't! Have you seen how many NEW members there are here that are fake? Hey, but it's the numbers that make this board look so good to the upper eichelon's, so I'm told, not so much on how it's run! Smiley


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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2007, 03:40:04 PM »

I try to ignore posts like this but this time it irked me enough.   This series of posts are the reason that a commercial company should not have a board that is to help members. This makes the board nothing but a board to help that company. I am probably out of place and so be it but I really feel that the company should be interested in the growing of the community an not just their wallet. I would be more likely to purchase from a company that is striving to help then I am from one that is just censoring.


Oh well my 2 cents worth Information sharing is the reason for these boards without it then these boards are pretty useless.


Do the mods that show ads in their names pay for ads on mak also? and do they pay for each time they use their name? Each time they post their ad is picked up by google and helps their website so I was wondering if they also pay for that click per site.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 04:07:01 PM by airless » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2007, 04:18:49 PM »

Freedom of Speech  is what this country is all about!    And it's welcome here too.

What is the real bugger here. Because this thread is way far off from the beginning post now.

Is it that a moderator did something you thought was out of line?

If so, He was just following rules, thats all. I said if before, Just check with MAK's listings first. He pays the bills. . . . after that link it.

This country is also about living by rules. Rules that govern us to be the best that we can. This site takes alot of manpower to keep it running good.

This means having 3 different sites running to perfect the main bbs. Theese other mirror sites enable us to discuss problems as well as to find solutions

to issues on the bbs. We use 1 mirror site to test new updates before they are applied to the main bbs.

If anything, our team of moderators may need more help with the many eyes needed to combat all the spam.

My question....Why do some members insist we have too many moderators? ? ? ?  When you have NO clue of the amount of time needed to maintain this board..

Maybe it's true, some of you guy's may have cabin fever.. If thats it, get outside and enjoy your bus.. Nobody's holding a gun to your head!

Nick-
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2007, 04:23:17 PM »

Well in a nutshell mods in my opinion make good spam cops but their is where they should stop.   Regarding this post I was interested in another possible source of a generator. I only made a mistake thinking that this board was the place that I could learn more.
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2007, 04:37:55 PM »

Airless,

You could, But when there is a generator for sale on MAK's listings, it's only fair that the person paying MAK should not be competing with someone

that didn't pay.  Come on, you know that this is a busisness right?    If not, this board would not be here. Who else would flip the money, You?

You have to lighten up a little and realize the resources needed to operate a fourm of this magnatude.

Hay, if I hade an extra 20-30 thousand dollars I would start a fourm just so you guy's can share anything. But I Don't!  Sorry!

Nick-
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2007, 04:47:15 PM »

Well first I will be as tense or as loose as I decide I do not need someone who is receiving a financial benefit deciding what my status should be.  In the future I would appreciate you do not make it personal since your association provides you with free advertising.

You are sadly mistaken as to the cost as you deem it to run a board like this.


 So before this gets much nastier since I feel that you are totally out of line and need to just stop I will leave this as my agreement to  disagree and that you are wrong.
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« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2007, 04:51:39 PM »

Airless,

My intent was not to anger you. Only to explain how things work.

If you belive you can do it for less money you certenly can do so and, I'll join it!

Nick-
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« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2007, 04:54:55 PM »

Nick sorry but you would not get shameless plugs and be googled by all of your free ads if I did.
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2007, 04:56:52 PM »

Also,

Noboby here would stop you from advertizing your busisness in your board name or listing your busisness web site at the bottom of your posts.

There is no rule of any kind of that nature.

Do you have a problem with my busisness name on my ID?  Why is that?   Anybody can do that.

I think your anger is comming from the wrong place!

Reguards
Nick-
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Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2007, 05:12:08 PM »

Ok, Enough is enough.

Ailess, Name calling will not be tollerated on this board.

Because of your last post, you, are the only reason this whole topic is now locked.

Reguards
Nick-
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Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
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