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Author Topic: Revisited: May need a hydraulic fan for my Air to Air  (Read 5950 times)
Don Fairchild
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« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2007, 04:24:39 PM »

Jim;
  Look for some one in your area that scrapes garbage trucks, You can take the whole system off of it.
they use a larger stering pump and tie in the hyd fans. you would have the pump, motors,fans, resevour, valving,oil cooler and mounting brackets. would be a nice install on your coach.

Hope this helps

Don
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ChuckMC8
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2007, 06:54:01 PM »

Jim, would it be possible to have a new charge air cooler custom made that will fit with your radiator in the present configuration?
   Tom C had his built to his specs-
Just thinking of options.......I want to add one to my bus also and remove the aftercooler on my 8V71TA
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Tom Y
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2007, 07:05:49 PM »

Jim, I have a pump from a Gillig belt driven. And to sell on here I would ask 50.00 for it. I also have a motor I think. Gillig uses a solinoid valve about 350.00 I think. Ouch. They used a 28 inch fan so it is big.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2007, 07:09:15 PM »

Jim,B&B coach installs the after cooler next to the rad where the batteries are on drivers side call Gary and he will be glad to help you he putting a 60s in right now in a model 10
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rv_safetyman
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Jim Shepherd


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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2007, 05:52:36 AM »

Again, WOW.  I have had off-line emails, phone calls and all of these great posts.  As we all know, this is such a great community!!!

As was pointed out, the engine is offset in 05 and 10 model Eagles.  It is a MAJOR job to put an air to air on the radiator side.  Even if you can get the space, routing the 4 inch diameter tubing around the radiator would be almost impossible.  It might be possible to put it "behind" the radiator, but I would do that only as a last choice, because it would still be a huge project.

My present air to air is very large (out of a Peterbuilt cabover) and should do the job if I can get air through it.

Tom C.  With the Series 60 in there, the miter box and belt drive to the AC is long gone.  Just no reasonable way to get a belt drive over there.

Stan, I am not a tax expert, so can't comment Cheesy

For the rest of our trip (currently in IA), I will play with the mister system that is in the bus now (will need some minor modification.  When we pull the big hill to our house (several miles of 6% grade), I will see if I need to go to the hydraulic system.

Again, thanks to all who have given me some good things to think about.

Jim

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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
í85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2007, 07:30:16 AM »

Here are the photos of the hydraulic operated fan and pump for my GM condenser. I thought the pump had an electric clutch on it but I was mistaken. I am going to scrap this one eventually but it will be awhile before I get to this part of my project. I know where one was that is already out of a bus, I will check on it if you are interested. I donít know the condition of it though.
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2007, 06:09:01 AM »

Barn Owl, the GMC system sounds like my best option if I go the hydraulic route. 

I would like to find such a system.  If I understand what was said before, the system can be activated by an electric signal which would be ideal for my application.  That would allow me to use the electric fans and then kick in the big fan for the hills.

What is the fan diameter. The best diameter for my exchanger is 24 inches.

For the near future, I have installed a temporary mister system using  an agricultural spray head.  We will finish our trip next week and hit the "big hills" when the temperatures will be in the 70s if the weather forecast is correct.  Not the worst test in the world, but it will give me some idea of how the mister system will work.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
í85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 04:59:44 AM »

I first posted this subject earlier this year.  I had planned to start a new thread, but this one has some very good information.

Since I have posted, I have been able to pick up the actual air inlet temperature that the DDEC sees (via my SilverLeaf VMSpc).   Under reasonably stable conditions, it agrees pretty close with my system thermister that I installed quite some time ago.

However, under hard pull conditions, it really shows some pretty high inlet temperatures (over 200 degrees and the ambient is only in the 80s) that the thermister does not see (it lags the system a bit and is measuring surface temperature on one of the air tubes).

So, I have to put this hydraulic fan drive higher on the "to do" list.

I am re-visiting the subject to see if anyone has any additional thoughts.

Here is a summary of the application:

1)  I have the air to air on the passenger side, as there is no room on the driver side (recall the engine is offset to the left)
2)  I have installed a rather large air to air heat exchanger and have 4 electric fans.  It does the job just fine for all but he hard, long climbs.
3)  There is no reasonable way to run a belt drive
4)  I want a system that has some sort of electronic switching device so that I can engage it only when it is needed (I do not need a fancy control system). 

Originally, I had wanted to avoid using the power steering pump.  Maybe I should have a more open mind.  Is there a "two stage"  (two systems built into a singe housing) pump that will fit the Series 60 drive flange mount?  That would allow me to isolate the PS from the "accessory" applications.  If not, how big of an issue is it to run a second system in the PS system?

Thanks for any additional thoughts.

Jim


 
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
í85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
busguy01
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 05:50:29 AM »

I run a 60/741 in my eagle01. I have both mounted in the original spot with the air to air in front of the rad. Run a 31" hydro fan with a 28GPM motor. I belt drive a 28GPM pump off the crank (3 belts) with a 10 gal resv and a air to oil cooler (12V fan). Only problem I have had was in trying to use a power steering pump to run it. Pump failed - went to a larger pump, mounted on same pad as PS pump. Also failed.  Went to a belt drive 18GPM pump. Also failed!! Now have a 28GPM pump and has worked well for several years and 50k miles. No heat issues now. Just my way!
JimH
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Started with nothing - still have most of it left!
1963 Eagle 01 with Detroit 60 series done (Gone-sold!)
MCI EL3 in progress. raised roof & Slides
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luvrbus
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 05:50:42 AM »

Jim, wait and take a look at Mark Renner Eagle at the Branson rally the last I heard he was going to be there he has success  making the electric fans work for cooling and the air to air charger.Cat has electric fans that would work but they are 24v .  Baylff another Eagle owner bought his from these folks www.electricfanengineering.com they have both electric and hyd  good luck
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 05:57:40 AM by luvrbus » Logged
makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 07:35:39 AM »

Jim; I have a s 60 in my 15 set at 550 hp the air to air is on the drivers side beside the radiator it measures 15"w x 34" tall we removed the large Eagle radiator and install a smaller one 34"x38" 8 core and made a fan shroud because I did not want to deal with the hydraulics.I am positive you know that bigger is not always better for air to air they need to be designed to move so many cubic in per minute it sounds to me like you have to much air surface on your setup allowing the air to heat. If you like post or email the model and serial number of your engine and I will find out for you the correct cubic inch you need another cause for the temp rise could be the air filter.The more you add in the way of equipment the more problems you create for yourself  have a great day
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 07:44:23 AM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
TomC
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 08:20:20 AM »

Just a suggestion- mount the electric fans on the outside of the fan (have to create spacers probably) and then use a hydraulic fan on the inside for really hard pulls.  Or just get rid of the electric fans all together and go with the hydraulic fan-you'll never get the power out of electric that you can with hydraulic. 
Then to drive the hydraulic, use the PTO off the transmission with a hot shift.  This is a PTO specifically designed for automatics that is always engaged, but has a clutch pack to engage and disconnect the pump. 
Two ways to do it- retain the electric fans remounted on the outside of the cooler, then mount the hydraulic fan on the inside.  When extra cooling is needed, engage the hydraulic fan.  Or just switch to the hydraulic fan exclusively.  It could run at a low speed- say 5gpm- then switch it to 20gpm for hard pulls.
While 200 degrees sounds high, that still isn't overly high for turbo inlet.  But getting it down further will make for denser air.  Do you get any smoking on hard pulls?  From your temp readings, what should happen is that you start the hill and no smoke and as you progress and things heat up, some smoke appears.  Does this happen?  If not, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Course the easy thing to do would be to slow down and catch the next lower gear and just waltz a bit more gently over the hill-but that ain't no fun!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 08:45:14 AM »

Meant to say mount the fans on the outside of the intercooler-sorry.  TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Don4107
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 09:24:17 AM »

How about putting fans on both sides of the inter-cooler?  Only turn on both when needed for those hard pulls. 

I don't know if I would be too worried about the inlet temps you have.  Unless the DDEC is turning down the HP, just keep on truckin. 

Another hydraulic system is just another possible problem/leak.

Good luck
Don 4107
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
1975 MCI 5B
1966 GM PD 4107 for sale
1968 GMC Carpenter
makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2008, 09:34:47 AM »

165 degrees should be his max depending on what hp rating he has I just went over I 70 through the Ike tunnel and mine never got above 145 at 60 mph the only place i saw mine go to 168 was in the Mojave desert when it was a 122 degrees outside    have a great day
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 09:47:55 AM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
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