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Author Topic: Bus won't stay running  (Read 4011 times)
alltech
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« on: March 31, 2007, 08:51:13 AM »

I have an an 8V92 with a DDEC 2

My bus is cold and when I start it up it runs for 10 secs the eng light comes on and and it shuts down in another 20 secs. I shut my power off and turn it on and it fires up and does the same thing.

All my fluid levels look good and oil pressure is about 50psi

I am not sure what might be the problem, any ideas

Thx Ross
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1988 102C3 8V92
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 09:04:16 AM »

check your coolant sensor... they are notorious  for failing. Or get your codes checked
Ron
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Hartley
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2007, 09:05:22 AM »

Fuel Pressure?

Might want to see if the DDEC senses the fuel pressure or maybe look at how long it's been since you changed fuel filters.

Just a long Shot ( in the Dark too! )
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alltech
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2007, 09:21:16 AM »

One other thing

The overide switch dosen't seem to keep it from shutting down?

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1988 102C3 8V92
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 12:33:58 PM »

Under the heading 'easiest things first' - as said above, is it putting out a code(s)? - also check your engine compartment run switch - HTH
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2007, 01:22:47 PM »

Ross more than likely its a faulty coolant sensor. I had the same exact thing on my 8v92. Simple replacement at about 25 bucks. It would be best to check the engine fault codes first. It could be another issue but I have my doubts!
Ace
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Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
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alltech
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2007, 09:20:59 PM »

How do you check the codes?

Is there a device you buy, or does it have to get towed into a Detroit Service Center
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2007, 09:49:15 PM »

Ross, If DDEC2 sensors are unplugged at the source they are no longer recognized. My DDEC2 acted like yours when it was only 2 quarts low on oil. Computer shutdowns are for idiot proofing. Go straight to DD and have them eliminate the function. You will still get warning lites and you can choose when and where to stop. DD can turn off the auto shutdown and give you another 150 RPM with droop function using the hand held reader. Then you will have a lot more confidence in your coach always bringing you home, deservingly so. Eagle has a test switch to hold on. DDEC then flashes codes with a blinking lite. 2 blinks followed by 1 blink is code 21 etc. While at DD, ask them to clear your history codes so you can start out fresh. DD can do all these things with out hooking you to the mainframe. They are parameters that can be set with the hand held unit and DD has never charged me to use it on my coach.
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2007, 10:08:23 PM »

Ross - you should be able to flash the codes by using the intructions in DA Book - If you don't have one, get one - you'll need it - let us know if you don't have have one and need walked through the process - HTH
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2007, 07:13:35 AM »

Ross, what kind of coach do you have?
There will be an "override" or "test" switch somewhere in the dashboard area.
It should be a "momentary" type switch.
Turn master switch to "run" position (engine does not have to be running), press "override" switch once, watch "check" and "stop" engine lights blink on and off. This is called 'flashing" the codes.
The "check" engine light will flash the inactive codes, the stop engine light will flash active codes.
Count the flashes as already mentioned and post the code you are getting with the stop engine light .
I'll be happy to help you from that point.

Sammy  Cool
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alltech
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2007, 07:36:24 AM »

I  have a 102C3 DDEC II, just to the right of the master switch is a engine shutdown override.

I turned the master switch on, and pushed the engine override with but nothing happened, no flashing lights, also the engine override switch, does not override the shutdowns the engine shuts down regardless of hitting that switch.

I have unhooked the low coolant sensor, and that did nothing.

I am wondering if it being about 25 F outside my bus fires up good, but with the 40 wt oil if it is flowing good enough to get back to the oil pan before it shuts me in on low level?

What is a DA Book

Thx for all the help

Ross



« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 07:38:45 AM by alltech » Logged

1988 102C3 8V92
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2007, 08:13:52 AM »

Ross I started another thread regarding my recent experience of shut down! I really think in my case that my batteries are just too low to keep it running but they have just enough juice to get it started!

Are your batteries fully charged or partially charged?

Also somewhere on the coach there should be a toggle switch for DDEC testing. Mine does anyway. I turn the ignition key to "on" and flip the test switch. The check engine and stop engine lights will blink the codes as described elsewhere in thsi thread.

Ace
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Ace Rossi
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2007, 08:23:17 AM »

I'm not sure about the MCI's, and I can't remember what tpe of bus it was but some bus I orked on once you had to cycle the ignition on-off-on-off-on and wit and it would flash the codes on the shut down lights! FWIW BK  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2007, 10:49:23 AM »

Ross, once the engine is running, and the alternator working, then you have more than adequate power to operate everything. Probably a couple of hundred amps available to recharge batteries and operate any other electrical device on the coach. The big question: is the alternator working?
Richard
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2007, 11:24:55 AM »

                                              coming directly from Prevost, there is always a low battery drain regardless if the batteries are switched off religously or not coming from the original dash radio if it has one, and definitely the DDEC which has a memory and the ATEC also because of it's memory.

In other words (his) if it has any kind of memory, it will drain the batteries over a 2 week period if not started!

As in my case, he agreed that even though the bus starts easy with low voltage batteries or not fully charged batteries, there is not enough voltage to keep it running before the sensors kick in and shut it down, and, when it  does start, it isn't run long enough to charge the batteries fully before it shuts itself down! Sort of a catch 22!

He also advised on installing a marine type trickle charger tied into the house batteries, which when plugged into shore power while sitting idle for any length of time are always maintained via the inverters own internal charger!  The same would occur for the coach batteries as well!

So even though the alternator is working, you need a full set of FULLY charged batteries to keep it running IF equipped with a DDEC!

Ace
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 07:27:48 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

Ace Rossi
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2007, 09:26:30 PM »

Ross, your theory about the oil sounds possible to me, especially with mine shutting down at 2 quarts low. The only way I have been able to have any faith in my DDEC 2 was to have the shop kill the auto shutdown. You could probably pay for a service call from DD. Tell them to bring the adapter for DDEC 2, have them read and print your current and history codes, clear them all from memory and have them KILL THE AUTO SHUTDOWN. That will get you running. I just round tripped SEA/LA with DDEC 2 with no problems. I don't think I would have even gone with the auto shutdown turned on, it was such a pain in the @$#!
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$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
Tin Lizzy
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2007, 09:40:29 PM »

Ross
Why not plug in your block heater for a few hours and try it again
If no block heater I used a stainless pan and BBQ briquets under oil pan. Mine fired up in minus 20
Harry
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Tin Lizzy
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« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2007, 06:12:31 PM »

  My coach, 6V-92 TA, DDEC-II, Alison HT 748 ATEC, starts and runs regularly with the batteries at 75%. It cranks slow but starts and runs. I know I need new batteries but only start the thing about every 6 mo. to turn it around.

Ed
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« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2007, 07:01:03 PM »

Ed do this. Try starting the bus when the batteries are so low the lights in the bays don't come on. Give it a quick charge to where it will JUST start and come back and tell us what you get. Not talking about an over night charge. I'm talking maybe 15 minutes per battery. Just to where the bay lights will glow dimly. The bus WILL start but I can almost guarantee you that it will shut down from LOW voltage somewhere in the sensor department if not all the sensors. 75% is not what I would consider dead batteries!

Prevost advised me after I explained my usage or NON usage to do exactly what the high end converters do and that is to install a marine type on board battery charger that is tied into the house batteries IF they are tied to some sort of on board charger like in the inverter, which mine is! I have been told that a 3 amp charger is all that is needed to keep the batteries maintained but you can use a larger one if needed. Frankly, if the batteries are always being maintained via the house batteries then I see no reason to need a larger one but then it would depend on your actual usage and needs!

Bottom line is the DDEC, ATEC, and anything else in the coach that depends on the START batteries and is equipped with a memory of some type will need batteries with juice. More juice than what I was trying to run with which was close to none! If you let your coach sit for ANY length of time without starting it, chances are, the batteries will need to be charged MORE than what just getting it started will do. It appears that the batteries, even though they are charged from the alternator, cannot be charged enough in the short time the bus is run before the sensors shut it down.

Ace
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Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
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alltech
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2007, 06:54:45 AM »

Thanks to everyone for your help.

My batteries are good, i can't seem to flash a code, I think my only option is to get a DDEC service man to come and look at the program. Maybe since this was ha fleet bus at one time some of the functions were set so drivers couldn't do anything. And the bus shutdown to protect it from being driven when it could do harm to the engine.


Thx Ross
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2007, 10:20:20 AM »

I know next to nothing about DDEC of any favor. I think the 8v92 in my Neoplan has a DDEC II but could be a III. When I went to look at the bus the first time, it had been sitting on the lot for months and the starter would bearly roll the engine over. I wouldn't call it cranking. The salesman hooked up a jump cart and started it from the driver's seat, engaged the fast idle, walked back and disconnected the jump cart and the engine never hiccuped. I find it hard to believe that they would build  an engine management system that would shut down the engine because of low batteries while the alternator is putting out good voltage but I have been wrong before and will be wrong again.
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2007, 10:23:03 AM »

Lee, I agree with you. In my opinion, it is technically impossible to detect a low battery while the engine is running and the alternator is charging.
Richard
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2007, 09:09:15 AM »

Somewhat different than a low battery but thanks for letting us know the outcome.
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2007, 10:01:49 AM »

Ace,

Curious, which two batteries were dead?

Was it the ones on the right in your drawing?   Huh

Cliff

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« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2007, 10:22:39 AM »

Cliff it was the two batteries that are at the top of the page. The top being the edge torn from the rings of  the binder!

The other two are good as new and I double checked the wiring that you questioned with a friend who has the same bus and his is identical to mine!

Ace
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Ace Rossi
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« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2007, 10:38:59 AM »

Ace,

Good deal!

I am still curious why they hooked them up that way though....

Prevost guys just wanna be different....LOL...... Grin

Cliff
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« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2007, 10:44:29 AM »

Cliff - mine are the same - 4 group 31's - 2 have the POS on the north and 2 on the south - No idea why - HTH
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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2007, 10:58:32 AM »

Niles,

When I saw Ace's drawing over at NCBobs' yesterday, I was sure that something was drawn wrong.

But, now I have an independent confirmation.... Tongue

OK Ace, "your drawing was right"

Cliff

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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

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« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2007, 11:23:11 AM »

Man the things a guy has to go thru to gain a little faith! LOL
Niles, send me a number so I can call you about another issue. Those so called friends of yours at CDB say the unpaid  tab I ran up under your name  is too high to release that information. Please pay the tab so I can get back in or just send me your number! Smiley

Ace
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Ace Rossi
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« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2007, 09:21:56 AM »

Isn't it possible that due to cold weather and cold oil the sensors are not reading the oil?
by pre heating the engine with the block heater or other means that it would warm it up enough to stay running?
Or am I crazy?
Harry
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Tin Lizzy
1972 MC 7
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