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Author Topic: Help the newbie please!!  (Read 2488 times)
trey
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« on: April 10, 2007, 03:31:16 PM »

would anyone happen to know of a place in southeast missouri (or the world)where i can find a computer to plug into my 1982 detroit diesel 6v92 d deck. Ive been told i could have bad sensors or something. If anyone knows a good place, i'd could use the help!
thanks
trey
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 04:16:43 PM »

Hi Trey - welcome aboard!  Grin

This is a great group, and I suspect you'll have an answer soon.

Best Regards, Phil
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2007, 04:56:34 PM »

 Hi Trey, like Phil said Welcome aboard.
 There is a good place in Springerfield Mo. It's called Diesel Exchange Inc. There # is 800 343 7355   The web site is  www.dieselexchange.com I hope this is somewhere near you and it helps.


         Pete & Jean
           Fantasy
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2007, 06:52:11 PM »

Trey, any DD dealer can hook you up. All the DDECs have diff plugs, A 2 won't plug into a 3 etc. You don't need a mainframe to check your system, just a hand held reader/programmer. DD has never charged me to pull, print and erase my codes, including changing the settings allowed by DDEC like droop and killing that auto shutdown feature made for dummies. My DDEC2 would shut me down on the RR tracks if I was 2 quarts low on oil. I castrated the computer and now my coach always brings me home. I believe the shutdown codes my unit was comming up with were due to cold and moisture and nothing that throwing money at it would change. If you are full of water and oil and the oil and water pump are working, that is about all it really needs. If it has that and won't run we call that a computer hickup. KILL the auto shutdown feature and the hickups are gone forever.  You will still get a warning light on your dash for a problem and can deal with issues after you are across the RR tracks.
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 04:00:56 PM »

Hello evryone, 
 
I'm a newbie to the MAK forum.

I was reading a post reply to a newbie from April 2007 regarding the engine shut down feature in ddec  buses.  I experienced a shut down today.  I checked fluid levels, I checked for contamination, wires etc.  I was able to start it from the rear controls right away but not from the front.  After 10-15 minutes on the shoulder I was able to start it and get underway.  When I got home, 15 minutes later, I found the coolant temp wire was detached from the sensor.  Was the this the culprit?  Was it the shut down feature or is there another issue.   Huh 
 
Rick
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 05:38:40 PM »

Rick and Trey,

It's not really necessary to have a code reader to diagnose these problems (although it does make things much faster).

You need to get the "codes" to read out from the ECM.  First things first:  make sure your "Check Engine Light" (CEL) and "Stop Engine Light" (SEL) are both working.  When you first turn the "ignition" on, but before you crank the engine, both lights should be illuminated.  If they are not, find them and check the lamps -- you really need these lights working at all times, and you should check to see that they are working every time you start the bus, no different from the oil pressure tell-tale.

Next, root around under the dash or in the front electrical box until you find the diagnostic connector, which is probably a rectangular job with 12 pins (later DDEC uses a round connector -- let me know if that's what you find). Stick a paper clip or other shorting device between pins A and M (they are labeled on the plastic of the connector in tiny letters -- A and M are right next to each other at one end), then turn the ignition on (but do not crank). The Check Engine light will flash out the codes. For example, four flashes, then a short pause, then three flashes, then a longer pause would be a code 43. After the long pause, other codes may follow in the same manner. When the code numbers start repeating you have seen them all.

When you have the codes, post them here, and I can tell you what problem they indicate.  There used to be a chart on the web for this, but the link I had no longer works.

FWIW, I would not disable the shutdowns as others have recommended.  You should have a momentary "override" switch to keep the engine running when the SEL comes on (and it always comes on before a shutdown), which can get you to a safe place.  But without the auto shutdowns, you can blow your engine up, say while you are letting the coach air up while you do your walk-around inspection.  If you are getting codes routinely, you have a problem which should be corrected -- not a "computer glitch."  Even if it is just a sensor problem, it can be causing the injection program to be doing the wrong thing, which is why there is a CEL in the first place.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2009, 06:14:43 PM »

My DDEC 2 with the shutdown out of the loop goes immediately to 1/2 power or less any time it reads a code. I you are not able to realize this and continue to drive farther than the nearest place to get off the road then yes you should follow Seans advice and live with the full shutdown where ever it happens. I transport people I care about, so having my bus shut off in the middle of the freeway at night in fog or on a set of RRXX is not an option for me. Been there, done that.
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 08:37:15 PM »

My DDEC 2 with the shutdown out of the loop goes immediately to 1/2 power or less any time it reads a code.


Only certain codes cause the power to drop, not all codes.  If it lights the SEL, the power drops, if it just lights the CEL, there is no power reduction.

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I you are not able to realize this and continue to drive farther than the nearest place to get off the road then yes you should follow Seans advice and live with the full shutdown where ever it happens. I transport people I care about, so having my bus shut off in the middle of the freeway at night in fog or on a set of RRXX is not an option for me.


I did not suggest one should live with the shutdown "wherever it happens."  I suggested that there is (or should be) an override switch which you can activate in the event of an SEL code to get you to a safe stopping place.  I have used my override several times to do just that.  I also have a spring brake override for exactly the same reason -- to get me to a safe place in the event of an uncommanded spring brake application.

Having the override capability means that you can continue in spite of an SEL code any time you need to, yet you still have the intended protection in place in the event that you are away from the controls when a Stop Engine event occurs.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 10:33:13 PM »

Rick- welcome to the board.  It is nice to see someone else with a transit.  The MCI Classic is a cousin of my '77 AMGeneral (if you already didn't know).  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2009, 05:59:22 AM »

Sean,

I got codes 45 & 46.  How do I find out what they mean?  Is there a site or ?  Huh

TomC

Thanks for the welcome!  I didn't know that about the AM General.  I just got my bus two months ago but I wish I had discovered buses years ago.  I wasted a bit of change over the years on S&S motorhomes.  My last was a 99 Fleetwood 35' with double slide outs.  Even with its hefty price tag, I was having multiple problems by 18k miles!   The first time I noticed a bus was at an RV park in Florida in the fall of 2007.  It drove in and I was instantly hooked.  It was an early 90's Prevost.  After they settled in and I picked my jaw up off the floor,  I went over and spoke with the owners for a while and became a "busnut".  By May 2008 I got rid of my S&S motorhome headache.  I drove over 5,000 miles to get my bus (my first busnut act).  2500 miles to get there and 2800 miles to get back home.  Of course, I didn't want to waste the time so I took my wife and kids with me and made a few scenic pit stops on the way back home - Mount Rushmore was nice.   Smiley     
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2009, 07:15:56 AM »

Rick- AMGeneral made transit buses from '74-'78 when the government asked if they would make the Hummer instead.  The AMGeneral is based on the Flyer 800 out of Canada-with the big change of the engine being a normal T drive with the Canadian model, and changed to a V drive for U.S. use-the only bus I know that used both V drive and straight drive.  Then Flyer brought out the 900 model which was the same except with a rather boxy front windshield and front.  Both G.M. and MCI bought up the structural rights to make a similar bus with different fronts on it.  I believe the last model made was in '92.  Santa Monica, Ca bus lines has some still running with Series 50's in the back. I looked at one and was convinced I could exchange the engine cradle for the Series 50 running through a straight drive-would make for a close to 10mpg bus (even with the short comings of the Series 50).  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2009, 07:28:14 AM »

TomC,

That's cool info.  Improving fuel economy is on my to do list.  Better fluids, better cooling via a larger radiator or one with more rows, possibly getting rid of the engine driven fan in favor electric ones. 

Rick
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2009, 08:30:29 AM »

I got codes 45 & 46.  How do I find out what they mean?  Is there a site or ? 


Here is one list on the net: http://www.tpub.com/content/constructiontractors/TM-9-2320-364-34-1/0726250091.htm

What you really want to do, though, is go down to your friendly Detroit distributor and buy the DDEC troubleshooting guide.  It lists all the codes, and a step-by-step diagnostic procedure for each code.

Code 45 is low oil pressure.  This is a stop code; it should light the SEL and, if uncorrected, will cause a shutdown a predetermined time after the light illuminates.

Code 46 is low battery voltage.  This is measured at the power input to the DDEC ECM.

I would not run the engine until these issues are properly diagnosed.  If the oil pressure really is low, you don't want to do any damage.  That said, the low voltage indication could be the root of the problem.  I don't have the troubleshooting manual open in front of me at this moment, but I am guessing that it would be telling us to diagnose and fix the voltage problem first, since readings from all sensors can be corrupted by either incorrect voltage or bad grounds.

If your oil pressure was normal when this happened (assuming you have a separate oil pressure gauge), then I would start by pulling the power harness off the ECM and checking the voltage at the input.  Make sure your batteries are topped up and all contacts are clean.  I'm not familiar enough with your bus to know whether it is a 12- or 24-volt model, but note that the DDEC ECM runs on 12 volts, so on a 24-volt coach, the ECM power will come from the center tap on the batteries.  If you have other 12-volt items connected to a center tap, but no battery equalizer (or the equalizer is malfunctioning), this can cause a low voltage condition at the tap, which will wreak havoc with the DDEC; I had exactly this problem when my equalizer quit once.

Hope this helps.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2009, 09:35:30 AM »

Sean,

Thanks for the info!  My bus has a 12 volt system.  I believe the #46 code may be old.  My batteries are currently in good shape (holding charge).  I removed, cleaned, and tested them just a few weeks ago.  I cleaned all contact points and made sure all cables were secure when I reinstalled them.  I had a charging issue after I got the bus back in April.  A month ago I discovered a bad connection in the fuse/breaker box at the back of bus.  Since that was resolved, the dash gauge shows 14volts plus when the bus is running.  I've checked the batteries when the bus is off with my portable volt meter.  They always register over 12.25volts.  My bus has four Delco deep cycle batteries.

I've been looking for a place to buy Delo 100 oil.  I'm in central New Jersey.  The bus got 15w 40 at its last oil change and I have to change it.  I drove the bus 2800 miles home with that oil - it was new oil but I new it was not the recommended oil.  My trip home was in early April via the northern most route from Montana to New Jersey.  Temps were low and I drove limited amount of hours daily and took seven days for the trip.  I didn't want to push it hard.  I also kept my speed around 60mph and less on hills. This could be part of the problem.  I don't know but thought is was worth mentioning.

When I change the oil, should I also put in an additive like "Lucas" for protection on initial start up?
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2009, 10:53:40 AM »

I believe the #46 code may be old.


If your CEL or SEL light is on with the engine running, then you have active codes.  While the ECM retains historic codes until they are cleared, the only codes you will read out with the method above are the codes that were active during the last run.

Quote
My batteries are currently in good shape (holding charge).  I removed, cleaned, and tested them just a few weeks ago.  I cleaned all contact points and made sure all cables were secure when I reinstalled them.  I had a charging issue after I got the bus back in April.  A month ago I discovered a bad connection in the fuse/breaker box at the back of bus.  Since that was resolved, the dash gauge shows 14volts plus when the bus is running.  I've checked the batteries when the bus is off with my portable volt meter.  They always register over 12.25volts.


All fine, but I would nevertheless check at the ECM harness end.

Quote
I've been looking for a place to buy Delo 100 oil.  I'm in central New Jersey.  The bus got 15w 40 at its last oil change and I have to change it.... This could be part of the problem.  I don't know but thought is was worth mentioning.


15W40 will run at a lower pressure than the recommended SAE40, but I don't think that would be enough to cause a code 45.  Luke at US Coach in Vineland would be happy to change your oil to the correct spec.  I have also had no trouble finding Shell Rotella-T in SAE40 CF-2 at many NAPA stores.

Quote
When I change the oil, should I also put in an additive like "Lucas" for protection on initial start up?


You will get many opinions on this question.  Check the archives, it has been discussed ad nauseam.  My own opinion is to stick with the Detroit recommendations.  Detroit does not recommend you to use any aftermarket additives in the oil -- just use the correct oil to begin with.

Detroit's recommendations regarding fuel and lubrication can be found here:
http://www.detroitdiesel.com/support/on-highway/manuals/lubricants_fuels_coolants/

or at this direct link:
http://www.detroitdiesel.com/support/on-highway/manuals/lubricants_fuels_coolants/OilFuelFilterBulletin_7SE270_010307.pdf

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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