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Author Topic: Why is it? OT  (Read 3595 times)
tekebird
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« on: April 17, 2007, 08:17:53 AM »

Why is it that there are people who ask questions, "wanting answers" but when they get them from good sources don't listen.

I'm smarter than you and everyone else but let me ask you this question and I won't listen or accept your answer, because I am smarter and am going to do it my way because I am smarter and it will work....

DON"T ASK Just Do then..

Damn.
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 08:36:21 AM »

Don't know. Just human nature I guess.

Same thing different place. I finish a 30 minute race and a driver, I lapped twice, asks about car setup and then wants to argue with what I tell them. Go figure.
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2007, 08:46:50 AM »

I think Lee hit it on the head.  Just human nature.  Probably always will be.

Same thing another place.  I fix a clients computer or network problems and explain how their problem happened, often as a result of unwise changes they made or unsafe practices.  Then they proceed to tell me that wasn't possible or that their way was a better way and ought to be the way they are made to be.  Doesn't change the fact that their way/usage broke it, but they will argue it anyway.

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2007, 08:57:18 AM »

I think they come with an idea they think is right and want someone to affirm what they think.  When you offer another suggestion or find their idea flawed they take offense as if it were a personal attack.  People don't like to be wrong.

I use a different approach.  I have always been able to build, repair and modify most things once I knew how to approch the project.  That's why internet groups and message boards are so valuable.  I would never be able to achieve the knowledge available here on my own, or I would spend a lifetime to aquire it.
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 09:01:28 AM »

That goes right along with many on this board questioning engineering that was done on the buses many times by large engineering teams with General Motors.  Granted they may not be up to date compared to what we have now, but the engines in the buses are still very reliable, usable engines.
Also, with some trying to recreate the wheel.  They ask questions about systems that would take a monster amount of engineering and experimenting with to make work, when it is a simple matter to look at what has worked industry wide for years and use those systems.
No matter what you tell someone about whether it will work or not, they will probably take their own road and learn the hard and expensive way.

Few things I have learned from my conversion experience.  First off buy the bus you want-the right size and configuration.  Also buy it with the engine and transmission you want (although I turbo'd mine for better high altitude use, and of course a bit more power).  Use exsisting equipment widely available through nation wide outlets.  Nothing worse than to break down on the road only to discover the part you need is obsolete and then you have to heavily modify the bus to get it to work again.  But- no matter what, everyone is going to do it their way-but that's why we spend the thousands of hours on our conversions.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 09:48:50 AM »

I've noticed a double standard - Engineers are idiots, all they know is paper, Then they recite some paper they found or some computer program results.

I believe it comes from immaturity & insecurity

Kinda sad that they can't be happy with who they are.

I enjoy reading their BS. It helps me to spot it sooner the next time it gets posted.

I'm hesitant to call BS, you know the benefit of doubt thing, but when it seems to be getting out of hand, someone needs to challenge the BS & get it sorted out.
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 10:05:59 AM »

This is where I get into constant arguments with the engineers at Freightliner.  They are degreed engineers trying to tell me what will work and what won't when they haven't even taken the trucks out and driven them themselves!  But that is usually the case with any industry.  But, because of this, the engineers make for a very conservatively rated truck where we don't see frame problems much, compared to smaller truck manufacturers (like Peterbilt and Kenworth).  Freightliner also owns Western Star-if you want to see massively engineered trucks, Western Star is it!  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2007, 10:21:13 AM »

I gotta chime in here!

kyle4501, I had to go back and read my posts to find what you read. I see where you think you saw it, but  it isn't there.

Engineers are people who hold degrees in engineering (although, there are exceptions- Smokey Yunich was an engineer in practice, just not on paper).

Engineers are not idiots, in general.
The idiot engineers are the ones who, as TomC said, "tell me what will work and what won't when they haven't even taken the trucks out and driven them themselves!"

The non-idiot ones will drive the truck, watch the part being made, attempt to flow that much current thru a circuit, and evaluate the results, THEN decide what can or cant be done!

Did they teach reading comprehension in your school kyle? You only seem to read half of what I say, then fill in the rest. And the half you do read isn't understood properly, because you miss the other half perhaps.
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skipn
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 11:00:18 AM »

Kyle,

    Well at least you didn't get "Ok, now we're talkin prozac!" next to your name. I thought a good discussion on moments of mass, 3d torque/stress ana,
  harmonics even maybe a little metallurgy would be very educational but it was not to be. The current trend from Engineering collages is the BS level
 teaches what formulas to use where. It is at the masters and doctorate level one really delvs into the derivations of the commonly used formulas and the assumptions associated. So yes I can see why people can get frustrated (real world versus formula theory)

  skip (talkin prozac again)
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 11:01:38 AM »


Engineers are people who hold degrees in engineering (although, there are exceptions- Smokey Yunich was an engineer in practice, just not on paper).

Did they teach reading comprehension in your school kyle? You only seem to read half of what I say, then fill in the rest. And the half you do read isn't understood properly, because you miss the other half perhaps.

Ok, That qualified as an attack.... However, Truth be told " You even spelled Smokey's last name wrong "
I knew him once in my life.

I work for a company owned and operated by a degee'd engineer... Can't figure out how to put toilet paper on the roller !

Just because you look good on paper is not excuse for being one who wastes others time imagining the impossible
and stateing that you already know more than anyone else. WHO by the way have already done 500 times more stuff
with their buses and lifetimes than you have.

You haven't done anything more than show your arrogance and ignorance so far... So now AMAZE us by actually
driving a REAL BUS.... Not a sickly excuse for one....... Appreciation for true Bus design comes from many hours behind the wheel
and getting real-time experience. You sir are just playing and not serious at all it seems....

You have already given yourself the unwritten handle of " WiseAcre", I am surprised that anyone will even respond to your
neverending load of CARP.....

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2007, 11:30:58 AM »

Wasn't there another thread sometime back from a guy who was going to strip his transit down to the "frame" and do all kinds of magic things to it. He probably never drove a bus either.

The main point is that if you take a $100.00 fishbowl and put in a T-drive and a Series 60 with a 740 trans and stretched it to 40' and marble floors, gold faucets etc., etc.  you might have a $500.00 fishbowl. (And it would still be ugly).

Len

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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2007, 11:32:20 AM »

Did they teach reading comprehension in your school kyle? You only seem to read half of what I say, then fill in the rest. And the half you do read isn't understood properly, because you miss the other half perhaps.

I was speaking about certain board posters in general & did not single you out in my above post, or did I fail to comprehend what I wrote? If you had spent any time at all here reading the archives, you would have known that post applies to many, many posters.

It seems to me that if one thinks they are the topic of all conversations, then they have a problem with arrogance & are full of themselves.

As for my comprehension of your posts, well, I must admit to having quite a bit of difficulty in following your thought process. Hell, I can't keep up. You are all over the place & change tactics faster than some change gears. I find it hard to believe you have put much forethought into this conversion process. (Whenever someone defends their position by dissing another, it sends up caution flags concerning their true merits)

I will be suspicious of anyone until they show their merit. You have got to admit that you came in here like gang busters with guns blazing. Again, if you had done your homework & read the archives you would have already had the answers to questions you didn't yet know existed.  .  . Oh but wait, do you think you are above that?

It was my understanding from all of your posting that you have spent considerable time planning your conversion. It seems rather odd that you haven't researched this a little better before so much planning.



My apologies if I'm wrong, but I'm not the only one reading your inconsistent posting & thinking something isn't right.


I really do wish you the best of luck in your conversion process.

But what do I know, I'm just a idiot that can't read or comprehend anything.

I wonder if I even have a bus! It may just be my imagination. Yeah, that must be it.


PS
I can handle attacks, it shows others what we are dealing with.

The hit dog .  .  .
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 11:33:58 AM by kyle4501 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2007, 11:44:27 AM »

DrDave said "" You even spelled Smokey's last name wrong"
OOps, I did

" I knew him once in my life." You are lucky then. I would have liked to know him too.
I seem to remember lots and lots of talk about how arrogant and cocky he was. And how wrong he was. And how his ideas were foolish, reckless, and criminal. And how they were all tried before, didn't work, and not worth wasting any more time on. The reverse cooled LT1 350 in the vettes come to mind.
 I don't fancy myself to be comparable to him.
 I didn't say that.
 I don't think it.
Just because it has been tried before doesn't mean the everything is known about and is no longer worth looking at again.
I started asking questions, and giving explanation for my questions/ideas. I do not take well to "the reality of what you want to do has obviously not set in yet" and the like. That is a totally useless answer. In effect, it is a non-answer. And when one says that, I expect a reason. How do you know the reality? Have you been there? Have you worked on a project that failed, similar to mine? None of that was offered by some posters.

There have been many here who, regardless of the view on my ideas, have been helpful. Some of you have not been, even before I got cranky.

Yes, when I get an idea, I run with it. And I am a bit gruff. My wife just loves me. Thinks I'n the best thing ever. Most others worder if she's been to the doctor lately!  Smiley

I didn't try to come in here with guns blazing. I came asking questions.

Yes I am arrogent.
In some areas, I am ignorant. I thought that is why questions got asked. To find information, convert it to knowledge, and remove ignorance.

On driving a REAL BUS. I have driven a few, enough to know that I do not like the highway buses at all, and I don't think the skoolies are built enough for what we want, and that I like the way the fishbowls drive, ride and look so much so that I will stay in the game, with my fishy, against all protests. The reason for my questions here is to help decide the form that it will take. If you don't the fishbowls, fine. Don't drive one.

skipn, I meant that in a good way, the prozac thing   Cheesy

Len, good thing for us we don't want anything out of the coach for resale. If it is alive in 40 years, the grandkids can have it.

As for the value, non of you have a clue! My coach is worth $1500 now, in scrap metal! Len, yours is heavier, it's gotta be worth at least $2500!

See, all our buses are appreciating!
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2007, 11:57:40 AM »

Really, $1500 in scrap?

I can't get that good of a deal around here.

They want you to seperate the aluminium from the steel & have it in small enough pieces to handle by hand. Oh & you have to deliver it to them too. (There is a bunch of steel in a GM bus. It is hiding under the alum skin.)

After I back out something modest for my time, materials & consumables to reduce it I'm in the hole.

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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2007, 12:13:44 PM »

lol...yeah $1500, after I remove the fuel tank. Drop the tank, rig up a 5 gallon can for fuel to drive it to the scrap yard, and trade it for $1500.

A guy 2 years ago gave me a 1959 GMC oldlook. It started after several attempts and way too many shots of either, then belched blue smoke like it was running on engine oil. I topped off the fluids and drove it to the scrap. In a 55 mile trip, it consumed 4 qts of oil between leak and burn. Rusty all over, and I think I could see the rear window frame twist! It was bad.
The scrap yard said it had too much rust to get full value, but I still got $600 for it, and prices have gone way up since then.

If I stripped and seperated the steel, aluminium, and cast irol, I would expect at least $2500 from a fishbowl, but as you said, with the time involved, not worth it.

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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 01:02:15 PM »

The bottom line answer is:  Research the Archives

I was not saying that you wouldn't be able to do what you are thinking.

I think we all had grand ideas at some timer or another. The problem is that most of the grand ideas
and plans end up taking more money, lost time, lost money and health. Sometimes plans do work out
but the one thing that you must remember. Any design changes or evolves as it is being actually done.

You can set lofty goals but reality will eventually win out over brains and brawn.

In fact  Huh Almost everything that you have schemed or planned has probably already be discussed, done
or attempted before. Why waste what little time you have left chasing after stuff that will end up being
more problems than they are worth.

We all know that these buses are dinosaurs in one form or another. Well why reinvent when you can just
do what you need and get out on the highway and have fun....So it may not be pretty or have nice paint
but as long as it makes it from point a to point b and back who cares?

A realistic target cap of maybe $30k from start to finish is reasonable for most people. Of course that also
depends on the bus shell you start with. A better shell makes sense for those who may not have the resources
to rebuild and work on the mechanicals themselves.

Anything can be done with a checkbook and labor. Save money, spend time to do it your way. Just stand back
and think about where you want to be, In the back yard with a wrench or on the road....(usually with wrench!!)

The oddest stuff breaks just when you fixed everything else.. Every trip is an Adventure.....

The First 50 feet or 50 Miles are usually the worst, After that things get eaiser (usually).. Just don't slow down...

 As for Highway speed.... You really need more than 55 or 60, Those speeds will get you run over,into or killed
with the way the people out there drive.

Dave..... ( Lost in Transition ) Roll Eyes
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2007, 04:45:22 PM »

It don't matter what it is, It can't be done! Period! If it could be done, the engineers woulda done it. If ya don't believe me just ask one! Funny how I just yesterday got off the phone with a tech support guy from Setra tell'n me "That can't be done! I'm tell'n ya I got all the notes on what can and can't be done and why!" so I told him "That's funny I've been doing it this way for 4 yrs now and it works better than the way the book says to do it!"  Now what is really funny is the phone call I got today from the same guy, who "just outta curiousity wanted me to explain again how I said I do it. & oh yeah could ya maybe draw me a sketch and fax it too me". Then when I told him "naw I don't think so, after all you said it won't work!" his response was "awe come on give a guy a break, besides I was tell'n one of the mechanics what you told me, and he said find out exactly how you do it! "Because I've been looking for a better way for 10 yrs!"  He also told me to get my head outta my ____, and listen when someone tells a different way they have successfully done something easier than what the book says! FWIW! BK  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 05:03:27 PM »

Guess I've got to add my 2 cents here, I know some brilliant engineers with some impressive degree's and I know some that couldn't open an envelope, as a matter of fact I came from a family with many engineers in it, the basic unknown factor here is common sence, some engineers are very knowlegeable in the application of idea's and some cannot grasp beyond the paper end of it.  I'm the dumb kind, thats why I depend on others for the help that I need and I'm not afraid to ask questions, I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel but I am smart enough to know a good forum that can help me do the things I need to do and help me understand the things that I don't.  The bottom line is that I love my bus and am enjoying the conversion of it and I think we all have that in common.  Why else would we take our lifes savings and pile it into a piece of metal that looses money on a daily basis but gives us enough enjoyment and memories to last a lifetime.
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2007, 05:32:02 PM »

BK ... it's one thing to find a better way of doing something, change of procedure or make a new tool, etc. But to redesign a sow ear into a silk purse ... there's a big difference. One gets the job done quicker, easier and safer, the other, wastes time and money ... but hey, if the person has lots of time and money, burn it up baby.

I am a mechanical designer by trade (not a mach eng) I design machines for logging , sawmill and oilfields industry everyday. I also learn my trade in a European fashion, my DAD, which is, "you canít be a designer unless you know how to build it." So I had to get my machinist, welding and fabricating tickets before I could start go to school to learn how to design.

There is one thing Iíve learned over the 35 years that I have been doing this, is not to get to far out of the box, or you may crash and burn. Advances in any technology are done in baby steps built on previous set pillars, not giant leaps into space.
Ron
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2007, 08:06:05 PM »

Why?( is it that there are people who ask questions, "wanting answers" but when they get them from good sources don't listen.)
Well Doug, let me give you an example:

Here is a thread on another board: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/17413.html?1176419761

to which, you, (an expert ?) replied.

I would like to know....exactly....what is your experience with the Blue bird LTC or any school bus chassis. I would also like to know what are the FACTS that you base your opinion upon as it relates to that post.

Waiting.....EXSPURT


Regards, Tq

Hoping we don't have to listen to too much more of  your diatribe, and bowing to your "Sr. Member" status.
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2007, 08:19:16 PM »

My experience is limited but I have been under and around them in the shop as well as driven them.

they are one step above a schoolie actually and also one step above a cut away.

they are not built with parts that are as heavy duty as any "true" tansit bus or Highway Coach they also cost 1/2 as much or less from new.......and it's not becuase of qty of scale.

they ride harsh compared to any GM Prevost, MCI etc coach.....

as for schoolbus chassis, outside of crown and Gilig they are all more or less Medium Duty Truck chassis' with a body bolted on.  The LTC is better than that...but not by much.

If I recall the guy basically asked why they were cheaper........I told him short and sweet........pretty clear

As for my Sr status and my Diatribe.........I am not the only one that thinks this guy is full of it.......I was just the first to speak up.

I do not claim to know all and readily defer to others who I know or at least expect know what they are talking about.

Tom for instance, transit converter with some ideas that do not fall in line with mine but I think he knows what he is talking about.

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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »

Now the guy has you fighting amongst yourselves....

That was a well designed set of smoke and mirrors, Figured it wouldn't take long before the old..

" Hey I am MORE ignorant than YOU" stuff started... Shocked Cool Angry Cheesy Wink Wink Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2007, 08:38:49 PM »

Someone let the hospital know this guy is loose again.
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2007, 08:40:29 PM »

Gotta chime in with my $.02 Shocked Roll Eyes

One good thing about this board is that all are welcome a bus isn't necessary.  That just leaves thoughts, dreams, experiences, opinions, etc. from the graymatter(also not a requirement Tongue).  
We got our own consumer guide from first hand users,  And dreamers with more resoureses than me.  I would find it interesting, be intrigued, would like to read about, possibly even drink beer and lie about hotrodding a fishbowl Cheesy.  But I don't want to actually do it myself Shocked   Somtimes "Brainhumping" is better than the real thing.  (another tendency from eng types)

WHY?  is the ony question for the active one and as long as he is satisfied with his own answer, we can help him with HOW? ,  and he should hopefully post lotsa pics and invite critique since its free here.


Tekebird probablly disagrees with my answer but he prolly not listening Cheesy Shocked
(just funnin, couldn't resist)



Anyway, I just wanna be like Gumpy when I grow up!!  Cheesy   YMMV
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2007, 08:53:40 PM »

I'm listening, and if you follow the threads although not positive in my support of Keiths plans I did giive valid answers...just not the ones he wanted to hear.....everything I said was supported by at least on other member who is a regular.

Something about me  to show you they typew of person I am a bit:  I have talked more people out of buying  buses I have been selling than the number of buses I have sold.  Why, from talking to these people they were not educated as to the costs of a bus maint wise or the conversion process based on what they wanted.

Most people don't realize a bus part cost significantly more than a car part due to size ad construction

I only  got peaaaved when Keiths stories did not line up.  Is he an Engineer or not?  From some of his simple non bus related question I say not..........

heck he had to ask how to make a bus kneel........any 2nd year engineering student should be able to sketch that on a bar napkin in 30 seconds

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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2007, 05:15:14 AM »



heck he had to ask how to make a bus kneel........any 2nd year engineering student should be able to sketch that on a bar napkin in 30 seconds



OR, he could have done a little reading in the archives.

This is not the first time a 'smartone' has posted here with a bunch of outrageous questions & claims. Some of the questions or statements are obvious contradictions, others a bit more subtle.

Time will tell if tekebird & others are correct in their assesment of this latest newbie.

Personally, my thoughts are If you're gonna make claims to your abilities, you better be able to back it up.
I see a little too much BS in his posts - especially where it comes to the structural analysis 'questions' , 'field data' , & the resultant axle weights from moving a few hundred pounds around.

I'm still waiting to see if my initial assesment is right.
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2007, 05:34:02 AM »

Who here wants to refer to an MCI manual to fix their Prevost?
tekebird?
kyle4501?
Oh, no, wait. Maybe a Bluebird manual would be more accurate???

kyle4501, you said "he could have done a little reading in the archives."
Well, I did that, and found 1 post...about kneeling an MCI. So I'm gonna use that for reference? Please!

tekebird, you made the same comment about slides. I did that too. Found lots....on Prevosts, MCI's, and Eagles. So I'm gonna use that for reference? Please!

I have some manuals for my first car if you need them. It was a 1976 Olds 98. Real detailed description about the power steering system so you can understand your buses setup!

Give me a break! I have a fishbowl. It is not a prevost, eagle, or even a gmc highway bus. In my world, you refer to like resources. I am not a bus expert. I have 1 bus. Access to 1 bus. The other buses I have access to are e350 and e450 van chassis jobs. I do not know what is similar enough from other buses to be relevant to mine. I do not know what interchanges with what yet.

"heck he had to ask how to make a bus kneel........any 2nd year engineering student should be able to sketch that on a bar napkin in 30 seconds" 
No, I had to ask how to make a FISHBOWL kneel. I do not know if there are problems not related directly to the air suspension that will show up when you start manually manipulating the suspension.

You two wizards want someone to refer to MCI info for kneeling a Fishbowl, and to mostly Prevost and   MCI info for structural mods on a Fishbowl, without asking a few questions of a few who have gone before me?

Wow, I sure hope you aren't as active here normally as you have been the last few days!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 05:52:02 AM by WorkingOnWise » Logged
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2007, 05:43:59 AM »

Who here wants to refer to an MCI manual to fix their Prevost?
tekebird?
kyle4501?
Oh, no, wait. Maybe a Bluebird manual would be more accurate???

kyle4501, you said "he could have done a little reading in the archives."


Hi, and Welcome!

Wow, you may have broke the record for most posts in one day!

WorkingOnWise
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Date Registered:  April 15, 2007, 07:50:24 AM
Last Active:  Today at 07:34:02 AM

Good Luck with your project!
Nick Badame-
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2007, 05:46:51 AM »

Guy's,

I hope this thread has come to an end.... The preassure gague is pegged!

Nick-
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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2007, 06:09:10 AM »

Enough with the low blows...

There's more in common between the MCI and Prevost than there ever was with the Bluebird.

First Hand Knowledge on that for sure....

With the exception of the newer Wanderlodges the older Bluebirds are more like a medium duty truck.

There is a finite distinction between a chassis that is built from the ground up to finish like a Bus than there
is one that is built on another vendors chassis such as International,Freightliner,Ford, Oskosh and many others.

A Bus is a Bus, A school bus is a truck.. An LTC bus is somewhere between undergoing evolution. Granted
that there are Thomas & Bluebirds that were scratch built they all suffer the same lighter construction
than even the oldest City Transit or Highway coach.

Most Highway and City buses were designed to be run 24/7 and are built for that purposes. Made with class-8
& dump truck running gear built to take severe abuse and survive for 20+ years. Somewhere I saw once
that the design and engineering for Buses was for them to last 50 years with proper maintenance. Some are
already older and still on the road, Post WWII buses were designed and built by aircraft and battle tank builders.

So as to not upset the Crown owners, That is a different story. It is a BUS because it is an original design
from the ground up as is a Newell and one other which I can't place a name on right now.

There were a lot of bad designs and good designs, some worked and still work while others either went away
or were transformed into something else.

The evolution of the bus will not stop here. The evolution of uniqueness will not stop here.

Kyle and Tekebird know what they know and so do I, We all can admit that we may not know everything but
we do know that as owners of more than 3 buses at any time we are afflicted seriously. We own them, drive them,
fix them, kick them and many times ask ourselves why did I do that. But in the end, He who dies with the most
buses wins... So the legacy continues... I peaked at 6 buses at one time. Now only have one left...for now..

CBA ( Compulsive Bus Addiction )....
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« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2007, 06:29:36 AM »

Who here wants to refer to an MCI manual to fix their Prevost?
tekebird?
kyle4501?
Oh, no, wait. Maybe a Bluebird manual would be more accurate???

kyle4501, you said "he could have done a little reading in the archives."


Hell yes I own a MCI manual & others & consult them all when I have questions as to how things are done. It's a bus, have you not noticed they all share the basic systems. There are some differences in how things are done, it is in seeing these differences that you develop a more through understanding of the system.

RE: a little reading in the archives, that was in response to your statement regarding how to add a kneeling feature;
"I imagined that a 3 way valve that will block air from dumping out of the brakes, but allow it to dump from the bags is all it takes. And maybe a tank to speed recovery when I want the coach to stand up again.
I'm hoping someone has done it and has a recipe to whip it together with a minimum of trial and error."


That statement showed you had no clue how a kneeling circut worked.

I got several hits on the search I did. As for consulting the MCI manual, well if you had bothered to look, you would have seen the basic circut. Then surely you would have known how to adapt that to your bus. It is just a compressed air circut, not nuclear fusion.
BTW MCI is still in business & actively sells spare parts, so it would have provided the "recipe to whip it together with a minimum of trial and error".

But, I do know that with few exceptions, hiway busses have air bag suspension & air brakes. If someone was going to make changes to their air system, don't you think it would be prudent to see how other successful manufacturers did what you are wanting to do?

I guess the big difference here is the way we do our research. I prefer to get a basic understanding before asking specific questions & trying to 'improve' something. Manuals are cheap compared to the information contained within.

You don't seem to understand what is similar/ different in the various bus makes. This is something you really need to do.

Just trying to point you in a more productive direction. I read the archives for over a year before I bought my bus. I know most of the similarities & differences in mine & the others. Your bus is way more common than mine, so there is lots more available to suit your needs.

Making the effort to search the archives shows respect for everyone else on the board.

If you still don't get it, maybe it is your arrogance or pride. I don't know.

I'm done here, something about wrassling a pig or argueing with a fool  -  even I can't tell the difference anymore.  Grin
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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2007, 03:38:29 PM »

 Grin Shocked Smiley
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