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Author Topic: Why is it? OT  (Read 3648 times)
Hartley
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 01:02:15 PM »

The bottom line answer is:  Research the Archives

I was not saying that you wouldn't be able to do what you are thinking.

I think we all had grand ideas at some timer or another. The problem is that most of the grand ideas
and plans end up taking more money, lost time, lost money and health. Sometimes plans do work out
but the one thing that you must remember. Any design changes or evolves as it is being actually done.

You can set lofty goals but reality will eventually win out over brains and brawn.

In fact  Huh Almost everything that you have schemed or planned has probably already be discussed, done
or attempted before. Why waste what little time you have left chasing after stuff that will end up being
more problems than they are worth.

We all know that these buses are dinosaurs in one form or another. Well why reinvent when you can just
do what you need and get out on the highway and have fun....So it may not be pretty or have nice paint
but as long as it makes it from point a to point b and back who cares?

A realistic target cap of maybe $30k from start to finish is reasonable for most people. Of course that also
depends on the bus shell you start with. A better shell makes sense for those who may not have the resources
to rebuild and work on the mechanicals themselves.

Anything can be done with a checkbook and labor. Save money, spend time to do it your way. Just stand back
and think about where you want to be, In the back yard with a wrench or on the road....(usually with wrench!!)

The oddest stuff breaks just when you fixed everything else.. Every trip is an Adventure.....

The First 50 feet or 50 Miles are usually the worst, After that things get eaiser (usually).. Just don't slow down...

 As for Highway speed.... You really need more than 55 or 60, Those speeds will get you run over,into or killed
with the way the people out there drive.

Dave..... ( Lost in Transition ) Roll Eyes
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2007, 04:45:22 PM »

It don't matter what it is, It can't be done! Period! If it could be done, the engineers woulda done it. If ya don't believe me just ask one! Funny how I just yesterday got off the phone with a tech support guy from Setra tell'n me "That can't be done! I'm tell'n ya I got all the notes on what can and can't be done and why!" so I told him "That's funny I've been doing it this way for 4 yrs now and it works better than the way the book says to do it!"  Now what is really funny is the phone call I got today from the same guy, who "just outta curiousity wanted me to explain again how I said I do it. & oh yeah could ya maybe draw me a sketch and fax it too me". Then when I told him "naw I don't think so, after all you said it won't work!" his response was "awe come on give a guy a break, besides I was tell'n one of the mechanics what you told me, and he said find out exactly how you do it! "Because I've been looking for a better way for 10 yrs!"  He also told me to get my head outta my ____, and listen when someone tells a different way they have successfully done something easier than what the book says! FWIW! BK  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 05:03:27 PM »

Guess I've got to add my 2 cents here, I know some brilliant engineers with some impressive degree's and I know some that couldn't open an envelope, as a matter of fact I came from a family with many engineers in it, the basic unknown factor here is common sence, some engineers are very knowlegeable in the application of idea's and some cannot grasp beyond the paper end of it.  I'm the dumb kind, thats why I depend on others for the help that I need and I'm not afraid to ask questions, I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel but I am smart enough to know a good forum that can help me do the things I need to do and help me understand the things that I don't.  The bottom line is that I love my bus and am enjoying the conversion of it and I think we all have that in common.  Why else would we take our lifes savings and pile it into a piece of metal that looses money on a daily basis but gives us enough enjoyment and memories to last a lifetime.
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prevost82
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2007, 05:32:02 PM »

BK ... it's one thing to find a better way of doing something, change of procedure or make a new tool, etc. But to redesign a sow ear into a silk purse ... there's a big difference. One gets the job done quicker, easier and safer, the other, wastes time and money ... but hey, if the person has lots of time and money, burn it up baby.

I am a mechanical designer by trade (not a mach eng) I design machines for logging , sawmill and oilfields industry everyday. I also learn my trade in a European fashion, my DAD, which is, "you canít be a designer unless you know how to build it." So I had to get my machinist, welding and fabricating tickets before I could start go to school to learn how to design.

There is one thing Iíve learned over the 35 years that I have been doing this, is not to get to far out of the box, or you may crash and burn. Advances in any technology are done in baby steps built on previous set pillars, not giant leaps into space.
Ron
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 05:33:33 PM by prevost82 » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2007, 08:06:05 PM »

Why?( is it that there are people who ask questions, "wanting answers" but when they get them from good sources don't listen.)
Well Doug, let me give you an example:

Here is a thread on another board: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/17413.html?1176419761

to which, you, (an expert ?) replied.

I would like to know....exactly....what is your experience with the Blue bird LTC or any school bus chassis. I would also like to know what are the FACTS that you base your opinion upon as it relates to that post.

Waiting.....EXSPURT


Regards, Tq

Hoping we don't have to listen to too much more of  your diatribe, and bowing to your "Sr. Member" status.
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2007, 08:19:16 PM »

My experience is limited but I have been under and around them in the shop as well as driven them.

they are one step above a schoolie actually and also one step above a cut away.

they are not built with parts that are as heavy duty as any "true" tansit bus or Highway Coach they also cost 1/2 as much or less from new.......and it's not becuase of qty of scale.

they ride harsh compared to any GM Prevost, MCI etc coach.....

as for schoolbus chassis, outside of crown and Gilig they are all more or less Medium Duty Truck chassis' with a body bolted on.  The LTC is better than that...but not by much.

If I recall the guy basically asked why they were cheaper........I told him short and sweet........pretty clear

As for my Sr status and my Diatribe.........I am not the only one that thinks this guy is full of it.......I was just the first to speak up.

I do not claim to know all and readily defer to others who I know or at least expect know what they are talking about.

Tom for instance, transit converter with some ideas that do not fall in line with mine but I think he knows what he is talking about.

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Hartley
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »

Now the guy has you fighting amongst yourselves....

That was a well designed set of smoke and mirrors, Figured it wouldn't take long before the old..

" Hey I am MORE ignorant than YOU" stuff started... Shocked Cool Angry Cheesy Wink Wink Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2007, 08:38:49 PM »

Someone let the hospital know this guy is loose again.
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2007, 08:40:29 PM »

Gotta chime in with my $.02 Shocked Roll Eyes

One good thing about this board is that all are welcome a bus isn't necessary.  That just leaves thoughts, dreams, experiences, opinions, etc. from the graymatter(also not a requirement Tongue).  
We got our own consumer guide from first hand users,  And dreamers with more resoureses than me.  I would find it interesting, be intrigued, would like to read about, possibly even drink beer and lie about hotrodding a fishbowl Cheesy.  But I don't want to actually do it myself Shocked   Somtimes "Brainhumping" is better than the real thing.  (another tendency from eng types)

WHY?  is the ony question for the active one and as long as he is satisfied with his own answer, we can help him with HOW? ,  and he should hopefully post lotsa pics and invite critique since its free here.


Tekebird probablly disagrees with my answer but he prolly not listening Cheesy Shocked
(just funnin, couldn't resist)



Anyway, I just wanna be like Gumpy when I grow up!!  Cheesy   YMMV
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2007, 08:53:40 PM »

I'm listening, and if you follow the threads although not positive in my support of Keiths plans I did giive valid answers...just not the ones he wanted to hear.....everything I said was supported by at least on other member who is a regular.

Something about me  to show you they typew of person I am a bit:  I have talked more people out of buying  buses I have been selling than the number of buses I have sold.  Why, from talking to these people they were not educated as to the costs of a bus maint wise or the conversion process based on what they wanted.

Most people don't realize a bus part cost significantly more than a car part due to size ad construction

I only  got peaaaved when Keiths stories did not line up.  Is he an Engineer or not?  From some of his simple non bus related question I say not..........

heck he had to ask how to make a bus kneel........any 2nd year engineering student should be able to sketch that on a bar napkin in 30 seconds

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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2007, 05:15:14 AM »



heck he had to ask how to make a bus kneel........any 2nd year engineering student should be able to sketch that on a bar napkin in 30 seconds



OR, he could have done a little reading in the archives.

This is not the first time a 'smartone' has posted here with a bunch of outrageous questions & claims. Some of the questions or statements are obvious contradictions, others a bit more subtle.

Time will tell if tekebird & others are correct in their assesment of this latest newbie.

Personally, my thoughts are If you're gonna make claims to your abilities, you better be able to back it up.
I see a little too much BS in his posts - especially where it comes to the structural analysis 'questions' , 'field data' , & the resultant axle weights from moving a few hundred pounds around.

I'm still waiting to see if my initial assesment is right.
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2007, 05:34:02 AM »

Who here wants to refer to an MCI manual to fix their Prevost?
tekebird?
kyle4501?
Oh, no, wait. Maybe a Bluebird manual would be more accurate???

kyle4501, you said "he could have done a little reading in the archives."
Well, I did that, and found 1 post...about kneeling an MCI. So I'm gonna use that for reference? Please!

tekebird, you made the same comment about slides. I did that too. Found lots....on Prevosts, MCI's, and Eagles. So I'm gonna use that for reference? Please!

I have some manuals for my first car if you need them. It was a 1976 Olds 98. Real detailed description about the power steering system so you can understand your buses setup!

Give me a break! I have a fishbowl. It is not a prevost, eagle, or even a gmc highway bus. In my world, you refer to like resources. I am not a bus expert. I have 1 bus. Access to 1 bus. The other buses I have access to are e350 and e450 van chassis jobs. I do not know what is similar enough from other buses to be relevant to mine. I do not know what interchanges with what yet.

"heck he had to ask how to make a bus kneel........any 2nd year engineering student should be able to sketch that on a bar napkin in 30 seconds" 
No, I had to ask how to make a FISHBOWL kneel. I do not know if there are problems not related directly to the air suspension that will show up when you start manually manipulating the suspension.

You two wizards want someone to refer to MCI info for kneeling a Fishbowl, and to mostly Prevost and   MCI info for structural mods on a Fishbowl, without asking a few questions of a few who have gone before me?

Wow, I sure hope you aren't as active here normally as you have been the last few days!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 05:52:02 AM by WorkingOnWise » Logged
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2007, 05:43:59 AM »

Who here wants to refer to an MCI manual to fix their Prevost?
tekebird?
kyle4501?
Oh, no, wait. Maybe a Bluebird manual would be more accurate???

kyle4501, you said "he could have done a little reading in the archives."


Hi, and Welcome!

Wow, you may have broke the record for most posts in one day!

WorkingOnWise
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Date Registered:  April 15, 2007, 07:50:24 AM
Last Active:  Today at 07:34:02 AM

Good Luck with your project!
Nick Badame-
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2007, 05:46:51 AM »

Guy's,

I hope this thread has come to an end.... The preassure gague is pegged!

Nick-
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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2007, 06:09:10 AM »

Enough with the low blows...

There's more in common between the MCI and Prevost than there ever was with the Bluebird.

First Hand Knowledge on that for sure....

With the exception of the newer Wanderlodges the older Bluebirds are more like a medium duty truck.

There is a finite distinction between a chassis that is built from the ground up to finish like a Bus than there
is one that is built on another vendors chassis such as International,Freightliner,Ford, Oskosh and many others.

A Bus is a Bus, A school bus is a truck.. An LTC bus is somewhere between undergoing evolution. Granted
that there are Thomas & Bluebirds that were scratch built they all suffer the same lighter construction
than even the oldest City Transit or Highway coach.

Most Highway and City buses were designed to be run 24/7 and are built for that purposes. Made with class-8
& dump truck running gear built to take severe abuse and survive for 20+ years. Somewhere I saw once
that the design and engineering for Buses was for them to last 50 years with proper maintenance. Some are
already older and still on the road, Post WWII buses were designed and built by aircraft and battle tank builders.

So as to not upset the Crown owners, That is a different story. It is a BUS because it is an original design
from the ground up as is a Newell and one other which I can't place a name on right now.

There were a lot of bad designs and good designs, some worked and still work while others either went away
or were transformed into something else.

The evolution of the bus will not stop here. The evolution of uniqueness will not stop here.

Kyle and Tekebird know what they know and so do I, We all can admit that we may not know everything but
we do know that as owners of more than 3 buses at any time we are afflicted seriously. We own them, drive them,
fix them, kick them and many times ask ourselves why did I do that. But in the end, He who dies with the most
buses wins... So the legacy continues... I peaked at 6 buses at one time. Now only have one left...for now..

CBA ( Compulsive Bus Addiction )....
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