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Author Topic: Almost on topic, BIG RIG Campsite design  (Read 3956 times)
skipn
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« on: April 24, 2007, 01:28:29 PM »

Since Dallas and Cat's lodging travalles I have been thinking.

What would it take to make a small 10 -20 big rig campisite?
I realize this isn't a money making venture but it should not be a money pit (that is reserved for the bus)
1. What are the minn. requirements?
2. What is the average needs?
3 What would be nice.
$ estimates low ball to top drawer.

I tried to include the aerial photo. The west shelter belt died from the neighbors spraying in 35mph wind. I need to do something
with it. but it died   
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&lr=lang_en&msa=10&z=18&ll=46.588457,-111.941189&spn=0.002927,0.006877&t=k&om=1
Only selling point is that Helena is between Glacier and Yellowstone.

Thanks (and have some fun with this)
Skip
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 01:31:36 PM by skipn » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 01:51:50 PM »

I am looking into doing something similar in tennessee if things go as planned.

The scenery at you place looks a bit bleak but I would think that laying out an experimental pull through spot
to see how much room that you would need would be a good place to start. Turnarounds and storage areas.

The landscaping is going to take a lot of resources but the big money is in any of the electrical or plumbing needs.
a loose guestimate would be around $3k to $6k per space on average to have it wired and plumbed, If you plan on
having a dump site or even fixed sewer lines you have to consider the big hump of change that will entail. The
bad part is getting the permits and planning. A really big septic tank system costs upward of $10,000 and is a lot
of work to get done.

My thought for my place is to have dry camping for the most part and what I am looking at already has power, water
and hiking trails defined and cut through sections of the forest. But I am looking at 100 acres or so in such a way
that I can provide separation between sites and still have enough room for a rally spot of about 5 acres with a small
clubhouse and laundry facility and dump station. All I need is the money, a bulldozer and portable saw mill..... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 02:07:01 PM »

Personally- 65ft pull through by at least 25ft wide with concrete padio, 50amp service, water, sewer, cable TV, hard line telephone, WiFi, pool, laundry, bathroom with showers, convenience store, firewood, etc.  Just some thoughts-cost can go ballistic if allowed.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 02:08:01 PM »

Hi Skip,

#1-  at least 40'X 85' in size.
#2- Perferrably paved with a patio area.
#3- Pull through Design so we don't have to unhitch to get to the site.
#4- 50amp service, water, sewer, and cable on a nice pedelstall
#6- minimal trees for us sattelite users
#7- very well landscaped with grass and no dirt.
#8- A well equiped store so you can live off the convience profits alone....
#9- Lots of things for your customers to do like, lakes, pools, outdoor equipment, playgrounds, activities, etc.
#10- Lots of room for big rigs to manuver through the park.

Hope this helps
Nick-
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 02:11:44 PM »

Hay Tom,

We think almost alike....Lol

I'm 64ft with the Yukon hooked on....

Nick-
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 02:22:51 PM »

#1-  at least 40'X 85' in size.

I am assuming this is width by length, correct?
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skipn
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 02:29:50 PM »

DrDave...You are correct it is rather a sparse area. Yours sounds to be a destination point to relax.

This really is great I get the impression that one should follow the KOA style design (but more for big rigs)
 Currently KOA estimates figures of $750K on 10 acres w/ cabins, pools, parks, convienent store etc.

  Oh my how fast things add up.

 Skip
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captain ron
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 03:13:34 PM »

I park my bus in Sturgis at the foot of a butte. at the top is a camp ground called "Big Rig Camping" It has app. 40 spots 20 of which overlook the city of Sturgis and is gorgeous view. Concrete pads, The rest of the area is all small round stone, Cable, sewer and water. The whole front row is million plus H3-45's with matching stacker enclosed trailers. Something like your talking about would be great to have near a big special event that goes on annually or bi-annually  so that for a week or two you can charge a thousand dollars a week for the sites then the rest of the year get normal pricing. 30 to 40 sites would be the best I would think to make it profitable. I was looking at the campsite I'm at now and it really wouldn't need a lot of space to do that many pull through's facing each other. Then you would have a nice # of full utility spots for a nice size rally and probably some space left over for boon dockers. I would think the cost per lot would go down with more lots. You could possibly sell them off as busaminiums that could be rented out when not in use on a 50/50 deal or even a time share deal.
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 03:38:45 PM »

That "bus-a-minium" is something I have been kicking around also. I was thinking more on the beach tho. If - and I would guess there is - a place where a person can buy a spot and have someone take care of it, rent it, maintain it, etc. for a piece of the action  ( ie. cabins and chalets around the Smokey's). I think that would be cool. And if there was a place where we (those that would want to) could possibly buy spots next to each other and then rent to other bus nuts when not used buy the owners. Make sense? Then after awhile, we could have a "hostile takeover"!!! LOLOLOL  Wink

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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 03:44:51 PM »

Have to add some more..

My coach is 102" and the A&E awing extends out 10' so there is 18.6"

Then you need 4 to 5 ft on the utility side for your hook-up's = 23.6"

Now if I'm sitting under my awing, I sure don't want to look inside my neighbors window. So another 12 to 15' past my awning = 38.6" wide minimal!

Thats my standards, I'm sticking to it!

This is what I call a big Rig site.... Holiday Travel Park, V.A. Baech.
The supersites are our newest state-of-the-art RV sites.
They are roomy pull-through sites with paved entries and exits.
They feature a 60x12 foot (minimum) concrete pad with extended 15x25 foot patio, fire pit (raised bowl type), stamped metal picnic table, attractive landscaping, and full hookup pedestal including cable TV.
Some supersites can accomodate combinations up to 90 feet long.

Nick-
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skipn
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 04:14:54 PM »

So Nick,

    Some of the high end places I have seen (internet only I couldn't afford or have a fancy enough rig) have high fencing
 between slips with manicured shrubs. The fencing is below the top of a rig (for satellite) but provides privacy on a smaller
 width slip design. Would that be something ok for your tastes?

   Just negotiating widths...Smiley

  Ron:   Well around here there there are mountains to see but I am afraid nothing to match Sturgis but then again who could match
           that.

   Also is it reasonable to have a 35ft minnimum. (reverse discrimination) Grin

 Skip
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 04:36:52 PM »

This is a very interesting post for those of us thinking about owning/operating a campground.

All of us were very sorry the situation with Dallas' & Cat's old campground did not work out BUT I may be on to another place that is better. I tried to buy it a few years ago but we could not come to an agreement. I found out on the way back from Timmonsville that the place may available again. I am looking into it. It is 179 acres with a 70 acre lake, pool, about 150 sites, lots of trails and a nice pavilion in North Carolina. If we can buy this, we will be sure to make it bus & big rig friendly.

Now for an OT comment. WE LOVE OUR BUS!!!!!  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

This was a first long trip & everything worked well. We stayed on it for 11 days & had a ball.

We are indeed HAPPY CAMPERS!  Grin  Grin

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Dallas
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 05:30:02 PM »

Too Cool Tom!

We are glad you made it home OK.

And it was great to meet you and Phyllis. Good luck with the new project!

Dallas & Cat

PS: GO Busing!
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 06:06:01 PM »

Too Cool Tom!

We are glad you made it home OK.

And it was great to meet you and Phyllis. Good luck with the new project!

Dallas & Cat

PS: GO Busing!

It was good to meet you & Cat as well. BTW, Stuffie only came out of hiding for you guys; otherwise, she stayed hidden unless it was just Phyllis & I were in the bus.
If this other deal works out, we plan to include a manager. Do you know where we can find one?   Grin  Grin  Grin

We'll keep you posted.

Tom & Phyllis
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 06:21:00 PM »

Check the local zoning or government to know what they require. Lots have changed here since we bought some land several years ago. Then we could do anything, now we have to get zoning approval.

For what it's worth, I'm trying to develop 5 acres into a self storage place for bigger stuff like buses, campers & big boats, but the required engineering plans for zoning approval that include surveying, designing the storm water runoff & treatment, environment impact issues, access road issues, etc is costing over $50,000.

That is just paper! No construction or materials!

Adding sewer will cost upwards of $20,000 for the design proposal to take to zoning to see IF they will approve it!

Far easier to buy something already grandfathered in.

Good luck!
I'd like to patronize your place  Grin
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 07:15:48 PM »

So Nick,

    Some of the high end places I have seen (internet only I couldn't afford or have a fancy enough rig) have high fencing
 between slips with manicured shrubs. The fencing is below the top of a rig (for satellite) but provides privacy on a smaller
 width slip design. Would that be something ok for your tastes?

   Just negotiating widths...Smiley

  Ron:   Well around here there there are mountains to see but I am afraid nothing to match Sturgis but then again who could match
           that.

   Also is it reasonable to have a 35ft minnimum. (reverse discrimination) Grin

 Skip

Hi Skip,
A good busisnessman always listens to what the customer wants. That is the only secret to sucess! I belive that the "camper" has evolved...
What I mean is, the needs, the size of the rigs, the things campers bring with them, have all changed. essentually, everything is larger!
I have personally expierenced that the big rig sites average about $42.00 per night. thats only less then $10.00 more then a regular site.
For me, having a rig thats worth more then $150.000 it just makes sence. I'm not going to have my kids track mud on a two thousand dollar carpet
because I wanted to save ten dollars. Thats Just Me but, I'm finding alot of "me's" around the parks...
Good Luck
Nick-

 
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 07:22:32 PM »

Skip,

Look close in this pic and you will notice a "pop-up" on the left of this picture. I'm seeing it more and more.

What does he need 50 amps for?  Nothing.... He is just a want-a-be big rig. He pays the same $42.00 per night.

It is a funny site to see though......

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captain ron
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 08:04:32 PM »

$42.00 a night I can find a hotel room for that. I have a big rig but not a big budget. I like the nice pads, fire pits, cable tv, wi-fi, sewer, water and 50 amp service but I think the privacy fence defeats the purpose most of us go camping, meeting people. The fence thing seems a little snobish. If you want privacy pull the curtains. If you don't want to socialize don't be sociable.
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skipn
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 08:41:22 PM »

In my research I have seen a lot of places like this. It does look better from a ground view.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&z=17&ll=46.704844,-112.029573&spn=0.004723,0.008626&t=k&om=1

 It seems a lot of places are upgrading for bigger RVs but wouldn't one feel like cord wood stacked in.

 So what I am hearing is privacy but socialable. Well manicured (rustic is out).

 As far as zoning etc. the farm ground around me is being developed into a 1k+ homes development though I think they may be backing off on the number of houses they are going to put in. It seems a little odd that Nick's requirements (which are reasonable to me) will be almost the same size lots the houses will be on. The bus sounds a lot better I can always move from bad neighbors(hard to move a house)

Zoning and stuff I am still in the county which is a little less strict but the politics and paper work will be a major patience tester. From what I understand the new regs are 1 house for 5 acres otherwise a large community septic which generally run around here 80K plus yearly certification.


Skip
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 03:01:01 AM »

Tom, Please note,  I have my hand up high (very high and waving) !!!   Pinehurst is in my home county and only about 10 minutes from my hometown.  Moving back there would be great and working for you would be a real plus.  We both enjoyed visiting with you and Phyllis.  I am very jealous though.... Stuffie liked Dallas better than she liked me  and my poor heart was wounded.  LOL   We will keep our fingers crossed that it wil work out for you.  Cat
PS:  If you need a realtor in that county, let me know.  I know a super one.
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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 04:28:18 AM »


Look close in this pic and you will notice a "pop-up" on the left of this picture. I'm seeing it more and more.
 
A friend in the RV industry told me a few months ago that right now the biggest selling type of RV are travel trailer and 5th wheels. Don't know if this includes pop ups. Seems most of these are going to younger working age families.  Since they have children, I would imagine they would also want things to do at any campground, and a pull through is always easier when towing whether is is a trailer or toad.  Jack
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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2007, 04:51:15 AM »

In my research I have seen a lot of places like this. It does look better from a ground view.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&z=17&ll=46.704844,-112.029573&spn=0.004723,0.008626&t=k&om=1

 It seems a lot of places are upgrading for bigger RVs but wouldn't one feel like cord wood stacked in.

 So what I am hearing is privacy but socialable. Well manicured (rustic is out).

 As far as zoning etc. the farm ground around me is being developed into a 1k+ homes development though I think they may be backing off on the number of houses they are going to put in. It seems a little odd that Nick's requirements (which are reasonable to me) will be almost the same size lots the houses will be on. The bus sounds a lot better I can always move from bad neighbors(hard to move a house)

Zoning and stuff I am still in the county which is a little less strict but the politics and paper work will be a major patience tester. From what I understand the new regs are 1 house for 5 acres otherwise a large community septic which generally run around here 80K plus yearly certification.


Skip


Hi Skip,

I don't think anybody mentioned Privacy... That is not a requirement that I posted.
Why would we need privacy bushes between sites? Save your money....Don't do it!
Also, Theese big Rig sites are usually sold out in advance. Call any Resort with theese
Big Sites and I'm sure they will tell you that there is a waiting list to get in.
I'm just trying to tell you "If You Build it They Will Come"

Nick-
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cody
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« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2007, 06:07:11 AM »

Personally I'd rather not have a privacy fence, I'm one of those that enjoys meeting people, one of my favorite things to do is to drag up a picnic table after we set up and some chairs and bring out the coffee pot with a stack of cups, seems it doesn't take long before we have a few people sitting around BSing and it always seems that before long someone has added a box of donuts to the table.  I'm also glad to see the new popups and campers coming in, to me, that means a new generation is trying out the Rv lifestyle, fresh blood is always good, especially up here where the mosquito's could starve if all they had to depend on were the old guys like me.
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skipn
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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2007, 06:58:34 AM »

Nick,

    The privacy was taken from 'I sure don't want to look inside my neighbors window' so My take was privacy was only to the point of not being so close that everytime your neighbor flushes the toilette you know it. The picture you supplied is well designed because each slip is offset so when you
look out your front window you are not in direct line with your neighbor and enough space to breathe.

 Couple of other thoughts/questions

  1. Charging for day guests good or bad?
  2. I was surprised to find age limit RV camps with no children allowed. Are They that booked they can be that selective?
  3. Some have minor on site RV repair facilities and staff. Do you think that would be cost effective?

 I really am appreciating the input. In the last 18 years I have only dry camped and it only been in the last few years I have been at fairgrounds that actually had electricity, water, one even had sewer. These are totally paved, sardine setups and I will tell you being on straight blacktop the poor
airconditioner ran 24-7

Skip
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2007, 08:38:05 AM »

If you already own property,are allowed to do most of plumbing and  electrical your self. That has avaliable water,power and sewage with good drainage and  location,with no disputed use issues and in an area without  the need for a engineering study,where you can use your own design without any impact fees .... It currently runs about $6000. per spot national average... If any of the above are not true it jumps to $11000. + per spot instantly totaly based on local rates .. Also have not ever built anything in any state that allowed dry camping without  having full facilities (hook ups plus properly sized dumpstation, bathrooms, showers )   gg04
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2007, 10:51:11 AM »

These fairgrounds that have full hookups must offer camping all season to break even on the cost of upgrades.

The campgrounds at our local state fairgrounds is only used four to five weeks a year.  They have 15 or 20 amp service at most sites with a few 30 amp sites.  Water is shared among several sites and is not supposed to be hooked up fulltime.  No sewer, but they have a dump station.

They also have a large dry camping lot with no water, electric, or sewer.  The only amenity is some porta potties.  This lot is open 14 days a year.  Dry camping is $14 a day.

The prices are a little steep, but the nearest campgrounds are pretty far and often full.

Brian Elfert
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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2007, 12:13:44 PM »

Nick,

    The privacy was taken from 'I sure don't want to look inside my neighbors window' so My take was privacy was only to the point of not being so close that everytime your neighbor flushes the toilette you know it. The picture you supplied is well designed because each slip is offset so when you
look out your front window you are not in direct line with your neighbor and enough space to breathe.

 Couple of other thoughts/questions

  1. Charging for day guests good or bad?
  2. I was surprised to find age limit RV camps with no children allowed. Are They that booked they can be that selective?
  3. Some have minor on site RV repair facilities and staff. Do you think that would be cost effective?

 I really am appreciating the input. In the last 18 years I have only dry camped and it only been in the last few years I have been at fairgrounds that actually had electricity, water, one even had sewer. These are totally paved, sardine setups and I will tell you being on straight blacktop the poor
airconditioner ran 24-7

Skip

Sorry Skip,
I ment that I didn't want to be so close that my only view was my neighbors window.
There should be enough space between RV's so that they don't obstruct views.
Nick-
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« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2007, 12:55:24 PM »

No problem Nick

    As you can probably already tell I don't travel much around this country to see the sights so I am depending on others for what works and what doesn't. To me these kinds of investments requires no second guessing. You also know one must understand the clients needs and wishes. I do a lot of
 research in my daily life and real world experiences are just as important as facts and figures.

 Skip
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« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2007, 01:58:55 PM »

Hi again Skip,

"1. Charging for day guests good or bad?
  2. I was surprised to find age limit RV camps with no children allowed. Are They that booked they can be that selective?
  3. Some have minor on site RV repair facilities and staff. Do you think that would be cost effective?"


Yes, charge for extra guests, have a repair man around for customers needs,  and most important,
charge an extra 20% above competive prices for convience. I'm talking about Food, Impulse items, Camping supplies, eaterys, cart rentals, etc.
You wouldn't belive what kind of things patrons can buy from you just because they don't have to travel out of camp!
If this a serious Venture, then look at it as your life....You need to squeeze every penny out of it to protect your investment and your future.
Bottom line, the "new age camper" will pay any price you ask if there is a value or an expierence that you give then everytime they come
that they can't get from your competiter.So, every new feature you put in...raise the prices, they will pay.
Have any more questions? This is getting exciteing....

Nick-

« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 02:05:09 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Lee Bradley
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« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2007, 03:23:29 PM »



Definitely NOT pull through but a big view with a lot of services.

Welcome to the **** ******* RV Resort. We are located in Gold Beach, Oregon on the north bank of the Rogue River. We provide full hookups and a private dock where you may dock your boat or board the Rogue River Jet Boats. A laundry, showers, a grocery and bait and tackle shop (including fishing licenses) are located within the park. Steelhead and salmon fishing advice is free. Reservations can be made for fishing guides and jet boats at the park office. We are Good Sam and AAA affiliated.
Located on the mighty Rogue River in scenic southern Oregon. Some river front spaces.
Full Service. Open year round. Beautiful lawns and shade trees.
A Good Sam Park and a AAA affiliate.
RV spaces feature patios, lawns, shade trees, and all hookups.
Grocery, laundry room, and tackle shop are located within the park. Fishing licenses are available at the tackle shop.
42 full hookup spaces.
Private launching and dock facility on the river for your boat.
Where-to-fish advice is free. Reservations can be made for an experienced guide to take you fishing on either the Rogue River or the Pacific Ocean.
Click here for a great fish picture.
Make your reservation and then board a Jet Boat for a 64, 80, or 104 mile trip up the mighty Rogue River. View wildlife while on the trip.
Tent sites are available.
Your Pets are welcome.

$37 a day for the 6 spaces on the river.
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