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Author Topic: R12 converted to R134A. What about to "propane"  (Read 2803 times)
Tony LEE
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« on: May 21, 2007, 12:41:15 AM »

I have an MC8 that was converted to 134A some years ago when it was still in service and now that I'm heading for the outback on a big trip, it is time to get the bus AC unit gassed up and working again. I am told the gas charge for 134A is different to the workshop instructions that refer to R12. Anyone have the correct fill weight please.

Local mechanic is a bit hesitant to tackle the bus but will do it if I hold his hand. He asked whether anyone had changed over to propane (??) refrigerant as in all the modern cars here. Anyone know?

BTW R12 and 134A are very tightly regulated here and it is not possible to go into a hardware store and buy the stuff -- otherwise I would do it myself.

Tony
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2007, 03:29:53 AM »

Hi Tonylee,

Let us know Where you are and What you are working on...

Propane......I hope your leaks are not in the bus!!

Nick-
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TomC
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2007, 07:38:46 AM »

Propane can be used-great until you get a possible leak into the duct work of the A/C-if it ignites you'll have a flame throwing A/C system right in your face.  NOT advised.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 09:36:19 AM »

changed over to propane (??) refrigerant as in all the modern cars here.

I sure wouldn't want to drive where ever that is common practice.  In case of an accident, forget airbags, I'd want an ejection seat.  Wink
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kyle4501
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2007, 10:04:31 AM »

changed over to propane (??) refrigerant as in all the modern cars here.

I sure wouldn't want to drive where ever that is common practice.  In case of an accident, forget airbags, I'd want an ejection seat.  Wink

Under the right circumstance, you just might get an ejection seat ride.  Grin
Yes, the potential is there for things to go "BOOM', but not likely to happen, too many variables have to be right for the big boom.

Most cars have ~3 lbs of 'freon' in the A/C system. Most people don't think twice about hauling a 30 lb BBQ cylinder in the car or truck to be refilled. Not to mention having the bottle ~1 foot away from an open flame/ heat source while they cook.

134a is carcinogenic & is a smaller molecule that finds it's way out of a pressurized system faster  Sad

Too bad DuPont's royalties ran out on Freon just as one study showed it was bad for the Ozone layer.
Lucky for us DuPont had 134a available so we could keep our car's A/C & not be bothered with the real facts concerning the impacts different refrigerants have on the environment.

I'm so thankful for all the selfless politicians looking out for the best interest of the world with no regard for proffit of big campain contributors.  Cheesy

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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 10:35:34 AM »

Hi Kyle,

[I'm so thankful for all the selfless politicians looking out for the best interest of the world with no regard for proffit of big campain contributors.  ]

The weather is great up here in New Disney World.... there are tons of free gold bars on the beach, Want Some?
Would you like to Beem yourself up for a visit?

Nick-
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 10:52:54 AM »

I never used the weight system on auto AC, it never seemed to work for me. I always went by the thermometer in the AC ducts and my HI/LO pressure gages based on ambient temps.

I think some "Boosters" use part propane but don't think any are all propane. They are probably safe in small quantities but I sure wouldn't want the whole system full of propane, especially the huge amount required for a bus. That huge quantity alone is enough to keep me from attempting to use the bus system.

Running the house generator and the house ACs is a much more sensible way to go even though they won't cool the bus front like the original system. I cut a hole in the bottom of my front house AC housing so the cold air shoots straight down to the floor and bounces off, works much better than with the original right angle turn it had to make.
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JackConrad
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 11:13:17 AM »

Propane is heavier than air, so if you get a leak inside a compartment, ques where the propane will accumulate.  Jack
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 11:22:59 AM »

Hi Kyle,

[I'm so thankful for all the selfless politicians looking out for the best interest of the world with no regard for proffit of big campain contributors.  ]

The weather is great up here in New Disney World.... there are tons of free gold bars on the beach, Want Some?
Would you like to Beem yourself up for a visit?

Nick-


I'd be happy to just send some of those politicians  Grin



You know, what this board really needs is a sarcasm font  Shocked  It might be less confusing to read some of my posts  Grin
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2007, 11:35:11 AM »

Quote
You know, what this board really needs is a sarcasm font  Shocked  It might be less confusing to read some of my posts  Grin


How about this for sarcasm:

You know, what this board really needs is a sarcasm font  Shocked  It might be less confusing to read some of my posts  Grin

or this:

I'm so thankful for all the selfless politicians looking out for the best interest of the world with no regard for proffit of big campain contributors.  Cheesy

Richard
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Dallas
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 01:45:06 PM »

OK,
If you are gonna use propane, why not just go ahead and put in an ammonia system? They work good enough for meat lockers!  Grin
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Gary '79 5C
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2007, 04:45:13 PM »

Dallas,
You might be on to some thing as I know that you will not have to have any ammonia detectors, As if there is a leak everyone will know and run like Heck... It is just safe as safe can be from that aspect.
Of course we would not use in a coach. Better left for the frozen industries, like the one I worked with over 10,000 # ammonia. Nothing ever cleared my sinus's.....
Gary
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Tony LEE
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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2007, 04:59:48 PM »

sorry Nick -- I thought my details were in the profile and visible on the left. Must have forgotten.

Australia.

Bought a 78 MC8 a couple of years ago. Originally one of about 40  MC8 and MC9 brought out for Ansett Pioneer -- in right hand drive configuration of course.
Still a few around in the hands of converters. Mine was still in service with a small tour operator when I bought it. Was reskinned all smooth white by the previos owner (because the ss panel was too bashed up to fix) so looks nothing like a standard MCI.

The conversion is working well and Betty and I are very comfortable into our 5th month of being on the road. First 3 months spent in Tasmania for a nice cool summer and now heading up north for a warm winter. We are back home for a couple of weeks - partly to get rid of some junk we are not likely to need and partly to install three opening side windows in place of the fixed glass for better ventilation than the two sliding roof hatches and a couple of extra fan hatches that we have.

I've left the AC and heater operational, but the AC is mostly out of gas - partly happening when the rear AC unit and the water cooler were removed. The side floor ducting and dimple panel were all removed and the fresh air makeup ducts removed, but enough of the return air and the two main supply ducts are still there to give me very good heating in the front half when on the road. A regas should give me the same comport in the tropical north. The previous owner said a small annual topup was required, but that seems fairly common on a big system.



The 134A is the obvious choice, but I thought I would check on the non-freon refrigerants to see if the changeover was being made. Yes, I have seen the scare tactic videos of the result of lighting a cigarette inside a car with leaking refrigerant, so of course it would be a consideration.
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Tony LEE
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 05:07:42 PM »

"I sure wouldn't want to drive where ever that is common practice."

I think that may be in the rest of the world - at least in passenger cars -- where they apparently feel the need to stop the irresponsible use of known ozone depletants.


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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2007, 07:14:43 PM »

"I sure wouldn't want to drive where ever that is common practice."

I think that may be in the rest of the world - at least in passenger cars -- where they apparently feel the need to stop the irresponsible use of known ozone depletants.

Probably right.   Undecided

That thought in mind, introducing the new Prevost EcoBus
  • Kyoto approved - Minimal global warming impact.  Generates only 24-30 liters of CO2/minute and 9600 btu's of heat.
  • Greenpeace approved - Does not use any petroleum products.
  • PETA approved - Does not require any significant life forms to perform manual labor.
  • UNEP approved - No CFCs are used.
  • WHO approved - Promotes human physical activity, leading to better BMI, circulation and cardiac health

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