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Author Topic: Update on Veggie oil and "Red" Diesel  (Read 2585 times)
NJT5047
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« on: June 11, 2007, 03:55:12 PM »

The ability to locate and fine those using tax-free fuels topic came into focus at Charlotte Motor Speedway a couple weeks ago. 
During race week (similar to an FMCA Rally) a lot of large, diesel power coaches are parked in a tight area.  Primarily in and all around CMS, and Fleetwood Resort Campground.  Guess who visited the area?  You got it.  The fuel tax man. 
They checked as many fuel tanks as they could after spending most of the week working the speedway.  No data on what they found on the RVs and bus conversions, but some poor sucker driving a Mercedes diesel with a "VegOil" bumper sticker got caught in the sting. 
He (Mr. Teixeira) was fined $1000 by North Carolina Dept of Revenue, and has been told to expect another $1000 bill from the feds. 
Seems as though he didn't apply for his $2500 "bond" that must be acquired prior to making "home brew" road fuels. 
This info is from the Charlotte Observer, www.charlotte.com , Saturday, June 9th. 
We just arrived home after another enjoyable boony long weekend.  Came across this item while trying to sort thru 5 days of newpapers. 
I don't use farm fuel, but could if I wanted to....definitely won't now. 
We've often discussed how the tax-man would actually find the non-tax fuel (I thought it would be rare??)....now we have seen it in action!
The new article doesn't mention whether RV'ers were caught with illegal fuel. The article featured the Mercedes owner who is trying to break the OPEC link.  Our government never misses an opportunity to punish the wrong people!  What's especially galling about this is that Teixeira was buying his fuel from Costco in the form of new soybean oil.  He was paying about 30% more than for diesel for the privilege of giving OPEC a gig.   
Most states have laws regulating blending home-brewed fuels....there's a link to North Carolina's regs listed in the article: http://biofuels.coop/general-information/taxes//    I've not looked at the site yet. 
FWIW, JR
 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 04:55:23 PM by NJT5047 » Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Dallas
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 04:40:57 PM »

Well,
I wasn't going to put a lock on my fuel door in response to a previous thread about fuel theft.

However.

Even if I don't have off road fuel or vegoil or dilithium crystals powering my antique detroit diesel, it's none of the governments damn business what I do in my home.

I will be the first to make them obtain a warrant to search my personal property, which includes my fuel tank.

And, since those vehicles were not on public roadways, were not driving on public roadways, or burning off road fuel on public roadways, the tax people had no probable cause to be there.

Tennessee and Missouri tried searching truck drivers sleepers many years ago on the theory that if you were a truck driver, you just had to have contriband on board. The ATA and OOIDA took the states all the way to the supreme court and won with the defense that the truck and the contents thereof were not just part of the commercial part of the unit, but were also to be considered the drivers home, therefore could not be searched unless the driver gave permission, or there was a warrant or if there was probable cause.

As far as I can tell, The state of North Carolina had none of these.

Maybe it's time to stand up and let the gummint know what we think.

I got some irrate emails awhile back about the signature at the bottom of my posts, having to do with governments job not being to protect it's citizens, but governments job is to protect itself. I also had written that there is not and cannot be a law against the overthrow of the government.
So, being a nice guy, I changed my signature line to keep peace in the family here.


OK, I'm off my soapbox. The flames can begin.

Dallas

edit:
I also promise that I will not be the one to delete any answers nor will I ask any other moderators to delete the answers or lock the thread. --Dallas
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 04:42:52 PM by Dallas » Logged
NJT5047
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 05:03:11 PM »

Hi Dallas,
What the H is "dilitihium crystals?"   Will it make my bus faster??  Cheesy
BTW, looking thru recent posts, I see a similar thread regarding brewed fuels and usery taxation that was started by Richard.
If you or Richard wish to move my comments to that thread, feel free.
Best, JR
 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
Dallas
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 05:19:16 PM »

Dilithium Crystals: See Star Trek. Scotty was always screwing with them and trying to make the Enterprise go faster.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a good place to have this thread.

Dallas
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Green-Hornet
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2007, 06:37:18 PM »

I was amazed and shocked when I first heard this too. No warrant, no probable cause. Just a bumper sticker.  Huh
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2007, 07:00:12 PM »

I was amazed and shocked when I first heard this too. No warrant, no probable cause. Just a bumper sticker.  Huh
While I have a huge problem with the legality of checking the fuel in private vehicles without warrant, cause or permission, they could probably argue that the bumper sticker gave them probable cause to believe that a crime was being committed.

I think Dallas got it right - put a lock on the fuel door.  And as somebody pointed out, don't advertise what you're using for fuel.  I could be wrong, but I think that they would either have to provide a court approved search warrant or arrest the owner to legally go past a locked door on private property without the owner's permission.
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kysteve
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 06:13:09 PM »

I once saw a bumper sticker of two hands choking garfield the cat.  I thought it was the most hilarious sticker ever.  But, I just didn't realize that meant that garfield was dead and killed by the driver of that car and stuffed in the trunk. Smiley

If we sport a bumber sticker that says "this bus protected by smith and wesson" does that mean they can search for a concealed weapon?HuhHuh NO,  HEL* NO!!!!

Come on, this country was founded on freedom, period......... Its up to us to stand up for it.  If I was this guy, I would get the media involved and fight this fight with all resources I could drag into it.

Now I'm not talking about the tax on fuel but, only the invasion of privacy.  I understand the tax idea.

You gotta keep the law makers in check or th-all be tellin us when to fart  Roll Eyes

JUST VENTING........Steve.........
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buswarrior
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 06:46:03 PM »

Hello.

I thought America was founded by a rebellion against those that were in authority abusing their power over the people....

As a foreign observer, I might have it wrong....

Wait, that's what we're talking about now!

So, have at 'em, boys!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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oldmansax
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 04:44:24 AM »

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) ...

What category are we in now?

Dallas, for the record, I liked your tag line.

TOM
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tekebird
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2007, 05:22:52 AM »

Dispite this recent event the Government has been checking fuel for many years......it is nothing new.  I am sure there is legislation that allows it as well.

If you make Hard Liquor at home you are also subject to taxation ( beer and wine are exempt up to a certain volume).

Do you guys have a problem when your vehicle is searched at the boardercrossing?  What about at Agricultural checkpoints?

How about Random DOT Roadside checks. The happen daily nationwide without probable cause




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Dallas
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2007, 06:07:00 AM »

Dispite this recent event the Government has been checking fuel for many years......it is nothing new.  I am sure there is legislation that allows it as well.

If you make Hard Liquor at home you are also subject to taxation ( beer and wine are exempt up to a certain volume).

Do you guys have a problem when your vehicle is searched at the boardercrossing?  What about at Agricultural checkpoints?

How about Random DOT Roadside checks. The happen daily nationwide without probable cause


Doug,
The fuel checks that are performed are on commercial vehicles and that IS legal. Read the fine print on your fueltax and roaduse tax paperwork. It's spelled out quite plainly.
I doubt that anyone has a real problem with paying their fair share of taxes.
Beer and wine as far as I know are exempt to taxation when made at home for personal use up to 200gallons per year.
Vehicle searches at border crossings are not performed by police, but by federal officers attempting to stop illegal smuggling. I've been across both the US/Mexico border and the US/Canada border more times than I can count. I also have NEVER been searched when exiting the US, only while entering.

DOT checks are NOT searches. DOT checks are safety inspections performed to keep the law abiding 4 wheelers safe from the evil, dirty, drug crazed truck drivers as seen on 20/20.
When you obtain your CDL, you give implicit permission for such checks as roadside drug tests, blood/alcohol tests, log book, permit, registration and insurance checks etc. You can also refuse to take the tests, but your license will be suspended or revoked. Permission is not implicit for DOT or any police officer to search your vehicle without primafacie evidence that a crime is, was, or will be commited. Probable cause MUST be apparent. When you get stopped, the officer will ask you, "Do you mind if I search your vehicle?" All you have to do is say no. Even drivers for commercial carriers have that right. That forces the officer to obtain a warrant for which he will need to show probable cause. Sure, they can hold you until the warrant arrives, but IF they don't have probable cause, they cannot get a warrant. If they do obtain a warrant and find nothing, they are still open to illegal search laws. If they search without permission or a warrant, They have broken the illegal search laws.
Use the law to your advantage, the cops certainly will.

In a town where I lived, one of the town drunks was stopped for DUI over 15 times. He never lost his license for DUI, he lost his license for refusal to take the field sobriety test and the blood alcahol test. He figured it was better to refuse than to be a 3 time loser for DUI and face 5 years in jail. His normal fine was $500, 30 days and a years suspension.
Pretty smart drunk.

Dallas

                                  GO BUSSING!

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kyle4501
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 07:57:33 AM »

. . . . . but some poor sucker driving a Mercedes diesel with a "VegOil" bumper sticker got caught in the sting. . . . 

Makes me want to put those alternative fuel stickers on my gas suburban just to mess with 'em.  Wink

But then they would just get pissed & make life hard for a law abiding citizen.  Cry

Remember, laws were written for law breakers. The courts favor the repeat offender, & it seems the burden is more often imposed on the innocent rather than the guilty. At least is seems that way after numerous jury duties.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2007, 11:41:04 AM »

All depends on the State.

and how their code is written.

CA stops R/V's on a regular basis checking fuel, When I worked for the Feds......CHP pulled over and ticketed a Federal Fire Engine and cited the Driver for not scaling after coming back into CA from NV.  Perfectl;y legal the way the code was written.

MD requires all vehicles over a certain wt to scale...commercail or not.  Does everyone....no....do they enforce....not often but they do from time to time.

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brojcol
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 11:42:29 AM »

TOO MANY LAWS...CAN'T TAKE IT...BRAIN SUCCUMBING TO COMMUNISM...

The only way for the people in power to stay in power is to make themselves relevant by making more laws for them to enforce.  That's how Communism was able to thrive for so long.  People were encouraged to turn in their own family members who were guilty of such infractions as speaking their minds.  And the laws that already exist are selectively enforced.  

Ronald Reagan said, "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

I fear we are quickly approaching a precipice that we cannot pull back from.
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Dallas
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2007, 12:29:24 PM »

All depends on the State.

and how their code is written.

CA stops R/V's on a regular basis checking fuel, When I worked for the Feds......CHP pulled over and ticketed a Federal Fire Engine and cited the Driver for not scaling after coming back into CA from NV.  Perfectl;y legal the way the code was written.

MD requires all vehicles over a certain wt to scale...commercail or not.  Does everyone....no....do they enforce....not often but they do from time to time.


I'd be interested in seeing the California code that allows illegal search, as in checking POV fuel tanks. I have driven RV's and Trucks all over California and never been stopped for such a search in an R/V.
I have been stopped in trucks though, many times. That's why, besides the cheap freight heading east, I wouldn't go to California.
I also know that California will check you if you have an excess amount of smoke from your tailpipe, and that would give probable cause to check the fuel tank.
Maryland I can't comment on except to say that weighing is not the same as searching.
To bring up other laws,
Virginia does not allow Radar detectors, Indiana can make a primary stop if they believe you are using a radio frequency scanner that receives police frequencies.
The state of Idaho even has a law on the books that states that no motor vehicle will be parked within 1/8 mile of the City Limits of Boise.
I was stopped in the early 80's in my truck in Connecticut and received a ticket for RDI. I thought it meant "Right Directional Indicator" until the fine caught my eye..... $250! I was told it was for a "Radar Detector Infraction". I won that one. I didn't have a radar detector, I had a Jammer, which is still illegal, but under a different law.

Over all, just because a State does something does NOT make it legal. It just means that the state has gotten away with it.
Heck, In the District of Columbia, I believe it is illegal to carry a handgun. But according to our second amendment rights, that law is, in itself, illegal.

If too many people are afraid to stand up, the government will take over EVERY facit of our society. Too many have already said, "The Police are Always Right!" "It's not my problem", "As long as they don't bother me, it's fine."

Look at history, not all that long agao... 1933 Germany, 1959 Cuba, 1939 France. Look to our southern Neighbors, 1998 Venezuela, 1930Argentina, 1980Colombia, 1989 Panama.

History has a way of repeating itself, as it is doing here and now. As far as I'm concerned, Large government is bad government and a government that stifles innovation is entirely too large.

Dallas

                            GO BUSSING!
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