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Author Topic: What type of radiator for best cooling?  (Read 1659 times)
belfert
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« on: July 03, 2007, 05:45:07 PM »

I may need to have my radiator rebuilt to fix my overheating problems.  I already replaced the thermostats, coolant, and radiator cap.  The engine will run at 200F (normal for Series 60) all day long on flat land, but put any real load on the engine and the temps start rising.  I have a mechanical guage in the rear and it reads the same as front.

None of the radiator manufacturers have a Dina radiator, but they can all rebuild my existing radiator.  I know there are different ways radiators can be built and trying to find the one that rejects the most heat.

I may not need a radiator, but I want to be prepared.  I have yet to test my coach since the stats and radiator cap were replaced.  I think I know a hill that should work for testing.  Everyone says 4 strokes don't have heating problems, but mine sure does.
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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 07:25:24 PM »

if you need a radiator get the largest cooling capacity core that you can get.

it is much easier to make heat than to remove it
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belfert
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 07:58:33 PM »

if you need a radiator get the largest cooling capacity core that you can get.

But, how do I know which has the best cooling capacity?  I've read here about different type of tubes and such for radiators.

Obviously, I can't change the size of the radiator.
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tekebird
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 08:04:13 PM »

ask your local reputable radiator guy.

your going to have to talk to him anyway.

 these are not something you mailorder
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dwbruner
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 08:08:28 PM »

belfert,

I don't have your answer, but maybe one of the companies I listed below can guide you in the right direction?  I believe the Diesel Radiator company has been recommended a few times on the board.

http://www.radiatorcores.com/

http://www.dieselradiator.com/index.html

Good luck, Smiley
Darrin
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Darrin Bruner
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belfert
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 09:26:50 PM »

There is certainly no reason a radiator could not be shipped for recore if the product is better or the price is less.  There would be more downtime plus shipping costs.
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TomC
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 09:31:56 PM »

I just had my radiator rebuilt.  It had a 5 row straight fin core in it.  I could have gone as high as a 7 row straight fin, but my radiator man suggested I go with a 6 row serpentine core-which I did.  It just about took care of the heating problems (I switched from a 8V-71 non turbo to a turbo with air to air intercooler).  Above 95 degrees it slowly heats up.  So now I have installed 10 nozzles of misters, have 2 vents in the rear engine door, and am in the final stages of hooking up my Hayden transcooler with elec fan that will go between the hot outlet and the original trans cooler to take a big bunch of the heat away from the shell cooler.  Even with the original radiator, the cooling was marginal-and the original 5 row core was clean.  Good Luck, TomC
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Stan
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2007, 05:56:36 AM »

If this is the original drivetrain, there should be no reason to re-design the cooling system. Dinas built in Mexico were certainly built to run and work in hot weather. Your radiator may be be partially plugged and I frequently see suggestions to check the surface with an infrared heat gun looking for areas that are cooler, indicating no coolant flow.  If your radiator is clean and the fan operating properly, your heating problem is elsewhere.

With five or more rows of tubes (especially staggered tube design) it is almost impossible to clean the outside of the tubes and fins with a pressure washer. Having the radiator washed in the  tank at a radiator shop will clean the outside and inside, as long as the tubes aren't blocked. If the tubes are blocked, they have to remove the tanks and rod out the tubes. A well equipped radiator shop has a boroscope that they put in the top hose fitting and look through every tube to a light source stuck in the bottom hose fitting. A pressure test and repaint with the proper paint gives you a radiator that will last you the life of the bus as a motorhome.
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blue_goose
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 07:06:32 AM »

DD says in there manuals that 190 to 210 is normal running temp for the 50 and 60 engine. Is your fan moveing enough air? 
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boogiethecat
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 08:50:00 AM »

I would do this: send your radiator in for recore, and have them put in the new high tech serpeninte style core, AND have them make it as thick as possible.  And I mean AS thick as possible (and by "possible" I mean taking into account not only how thick it can be, but also maintainance issues like Stan has brought up...)


I had my radiator recored, and found that I had room enough that I could go from the 3" core it originally had, to a 6" thick core.  I  talked it all over with the guy and sent it in.  When it got back it was only 4.5" thick!!!  I immediately called, and the guy told me that he'd used the new serpentine style core, and that 4.5" would work even better than the 6" of standard core I'd spec'd, and he didn't feel it necessary to tell me before doing the job.  I said OK but if the thing overheated on my next desert trip, he would be seeing it again on his dime.  Well, it was much better on my next desert trip but it did overheat.  So I ripped it out and sent it back to him, and on his dime he recored it AGAIN, this time, 6" thick as I'd originally asked AND with the new style hi tech core.  Finally it doesn't overheat, but not by much.  So I'm happy, he's not as happy as he could have been, and it works well.

My bottom line, if you're radiator is too big or has too much capacity, the thermostat will take care of it.  If it's too small, only your transmission will take care of it (ie gearing down and going slow).  So if you have a choice, just go as big and as thick, and as high tech a core as you possibly can, and then you'll have the best system you can given the space.  Manufacturers don't do this for money reasons, which theoretically aren't an issue with busnuts Smiley but there always seems to be a grade somewhere on a hot day that will kill a stock system... they are rarely designed with much overkill from the factory, if any...

The guy I used, I'd recommend as long as you have this conversation with him about NOT changing what's been discussed without first asking you... other than that, they pay half the shipping and they do a great job: Discount Truck Radiator 800.443.1322

Cheers
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 08:55:26 AM by boogiethecat » Logged

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busguy01
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 09:01:52 AM »

I have a 60 in an Eagle with a 741. I found that the transmission cooler was as much a heater as the engine!! After a trans overhaul -- guess what -- no over heat! If you have a water to oil cooler you MIGHT want to look at the transmission for slipping or not locking up.  Last time I installed stats i couldn't get the recommended 180's so went with 170's. Runs on the stat most of the time and once in a while in hot humid weather and doing hills it will get to high 180's.
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Started with nothing - still have most of it left!
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belfert
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2007, 10:07:31 AM »

I don't want to completely reengineer my cooling, but if my radiator does need to be recored I would like to get the best possible cooling capacity.  Recoring the radiator is the last thing I will do for my overheat problem.

I've talked with Dina/MCI, but they haven't been the most helpful.  They say the fan clutch is usually the biggest issue with overheating.  They can't tell me how to verify the clutch is working properly.  The clutch locks up as soon as the ignition is turned on, but they can't tell me if the clutch is two speed or not.  A lot of vehicles with Series 60s will have a two speed electric fan clutch.  The DDEC will switch the fan clutch to high at a certain speed.

If I need to pull the radiator I'll certainly have it evaluated before recoring it.

Yes, the Dina should be engineered to have plenty of cooling capacity.  Bryce Gaston (Busted Knuckle) knows a charter operator with two Dinas and they don't everheat, but they are 1998 or 1999 models with the 12.7 instead of the 11.1 and may have some engineering changes.
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belfert
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2007, 10:13:24 AM »

I have a 60 in an Eagle with a 741. I found that the transmission cooler was as much a heater as the engine!! After a trans overhaul -- guess what -- no over heat! If you have a water to oil cooler you MIGHT want to look at the transmission for slipping or not locking up.  Last time I installed stats i couldn't get the recommended 180's so went with 170's. Runs on the stat most of the time and once in a while in hot humid weather and doing hills it will get to high 180's.

I did have the tranny fluid in my B500 changed recently.  They said the old fluid was really bad.  They ended up flushing the cooler and everything because the fluid was so bad.  Two different Allison places have checked the tranny and they say it is fine.  The only problem is it will downshift very harshly into first until the tranny warms up. 

Why 170 or 180 stats?  The folks I talked to said just to stick with the 190s.  If working properly, the stats should be fully open at the normal 200 degree operating temps.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2007, 12:43:23 PM »

Why 170 or 180 stats?  The folks I talked to said just to stick with the 190s.  If working properly, the stats should be fully open at the normal 200 degree operating temps.

Well if ya think about it, they will open sooner! Which in turn allows the water to flow/cool sooner! And if his unit was having trouble getting higher that that anyway it totally makes sense to me!
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tekebird
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2007, 07:28:48 AM »

I'd put in lower temp t stats first....cheapest possible fix.

if that does not work. then the rad  comes out and se tto the radiator shop.  They should be able to tell you what it is able to pass flow wise.

my 04 radiator was 70% blocked after some idiot put non compatable coolant in it....mixing coolant types creates a nice sludge with the consistancy of phlem from a good sinus infection
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