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Author Topic: changing tires on road.  (Read 3294 times)
ttomas
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« on: July 07, 2007, 01:40:39 PM »

How do you guys move tires around from tag to front or drive? even though I have the shop apply never seize, the 750lbs +- of torque on the lug nuts is to great for me to break loose. Thanks Tomas
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jjrbus
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2007, 02:13:11 PM »

 You should not have used lug nut and neversieze in the same sentance!!! Maybe not even in the same post!!! Do a search of the archives on this subject.

 Are you sure you are useing 750 lbs of torque? Where did you get that figure from?
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Buffalo SpaceShip
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2007, 02:15:36 PM »

Tomas, 750# is a bit too tight, and the manuf. never recommend any lubricants on the threads, since this leads to even higher torque values. 550 ft. lbs. dry is more like it.

I carry a $99 el-cheapo HF 1" impact and 11 gal. "punk" tank, everything plumbed with 1/2" fittings, and then a 25' 1/2" hose to the dry tank of my bus. It can bust off the 10 nuts in about 5 minutes, accounting for the slight breaks to refill the punk tank (it's a very inefficient gun). I also have run-up blocks for the outside duals, a 12 ton and 20 ton bottle jack, and a 3/4" x 48" long, 650 ft. lb. torque wrench and 5:1 multiplier (for just in case I have no air). My dad-in-law also gave me one of those cool "tire-monkey" bars that can walk the big tires around the axle "like buttah". This all fits in a big footlocker I keep in my back bay and I never leave home w/o it.

All told, I have about $500 invested in this system, but will never have to wait for tire service again. Plus, no tire monkey's going to put 1500# on one of my studs with their big IR hawgs.

FWIW and HTH,
Brian B.

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Brian Brown
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jjrbus
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 02:26:05 PM »

Some manufactures do approve lubricant. The 550 lbs may not be right for his application.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 03:00:34 PM »

Some manufactures do approve lubricant. The 550 lbs may not be right for his application.

Yes you are correct! I just recently found out Setra does! Dad was reading the operators manual (boring stuff), while I was doing some work lately and he pointed it out to me that they do suggest "put a light coat of thin oil on the lug stud before installing the lugnut."
I was flabbergasted!! After all the info that was discussed here awhile back I quit using "antiseize" (a life long practice) after finding out I was doing the "wrong thing." Now I find that it's "suggested"  Huh  Undecided  Embarrassed ! Well I don't use the anti seize as heavily as I used too, but I do put a little on now!  FWIW!
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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lesrMC9
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2007, 03:27:11 PM »

here is my 2 Canadian Pesos worth; as a trucker for 39 years I alway heard NOT to lubricate, then reading torque values [ know not which manufacture's web site ] I read IF you  do  lubricate  use only 3 drops of 30 wt oil per stud/nut, then you have to use 100 - 150 lbs less torque
but I'm like Busted Knuckle, do it my way and use a little never sez and check my nuts frequently, just to make sure they feel good Roll Eyes Cheesy
Les R mc9
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 03:32:34 PM by lesrMC9 » Logged
Timkar
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 04:18:37 PM »

Thanks for the chuckle LES  Grin Grin Grin

"check my nuts frequently, just to make sure they feel good" 
Les R mc9
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kyle4501
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2007, 04:21:27 PM »

. . .  IF you  do  lubricate  use only 3 drops of 30 wt oil per stud/nut, then you have to use 100 - 150 lbs less torque . . . . .
Les R mc9

Sage advice concerning reducing the applied torque IF lube is used
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jjrbus
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 05:22:10 PM »

The service manual for my bus calls for 450 to 500 lbs torque, dry. If I reduce that by 100 to 150 lbs it would be from 300 to 350 lbs. Does not sound right to me?
 I've always used "Anti Seize" on everything but after reading everything I could find including the Anti Seize type products literature, I have stopped using it on lugnuts. Absolutely nobody recommends using it.
 The nice thing about bus's is we can do it our way.
                                                                           HTH Jim

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Jerry32
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2007, 06:00:48 PM »

Those truck tire shops put the lugs on so tight even my 1" air impact wrench wouldn't bust em loose. I had 10 ft of cheater pipe in a bud wrench and you could use it for a springboard. I boght an electreic impact for the road and found it worked better that the air. The only trouble with these big tools as you get older you need a crane to pick em up. Jerry
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2007, 07:27:25 PM »

Hey Jerry,
What does that electric impact draw in amps?
Devin
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2007, 08:21:44 PM »

my craftsman 1/2 in draws 7.5 amps; have used it with a 1500 watt inverter modified synwave
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jjrbus
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2007, 08:47:43 PM »

 I have had 2 friends with electric impacts, I was really impressed with what they could do. Are you saying you have used a 1/2 inch electric on bus lugnuts?
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Stan
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2007, 05:12:11 AM »

I had wheels off and on many times in the yard doing maintenance but never planned on changing a wheel on the road so I didn't carry a spare. I replaced all the tires when they were five years old and stopped for coffee every two hours when driving. At every coffee stop I did a walk around, felt all the hubs, thumped all the tires and had a general look for any problem. I never had a tire problem during the life of the tire but I carried the necessary tools to switch wheels around if necessary. I also carried road service insurance as a back-up.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2007, 06:19:18 AM »

Just my observation, but the electric impacts I have used were more abusive to the threads. I've even had them foul the threads while backing the nut off.  Sad  & I always put the nuts on with a torque wrench.

My preference is the 10-1, 2000 lb-in multiplier I got off ebay. It took a while, but I was able to get one cheaper than a big impact wrench.  Smiley

Over tightening the lug nuts will cause the studs to fail sooner & in stud piloted wheels -can ruin the rim by crushing the ball seat. Having the center crack out of a bud wheel can't be good either.  Shocked
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2007, 07:15:33 AM »

I take all my wheels off every winter to rotate and inspect what's behind them. That makes them easy to take off if I have to on the road. I use a 3 foot extension on the wrench so I can torque to 500ft/lbs with my 170lb body weight. I have a piece of 3/4" plywood with 2" holes to support the outside end of the socket wrench for the rear wheels. I also carry a 1" air impact for back up, which I never use because I can't get enough air to it. And a good spare, mounted.
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JC
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Jerry32
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2007, 02:31:55 PM »

hey Devin my electric impact wrench is a Makita 1" drive and draws 15 amps.at 120 volts. Jerry
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 04:36:32 PM »

My brother was in town a few weeks ago and he showed me how to change an outboard tire with the rim still on the bus. It is not as convenient as having the wheel off, but it is easier than taking everything off on the side of the road. One thing to stay on top of, you have to be careful with the tools when working that close in proximity to the sides of the bus. Has anyone else tried this? I would only do it if I had to, mostly because of having to use ether to seat the bead. When I saw what he was about to do I was a little concerned, I didnít like the idea of having flame + explosion under my bus.  Incase anyone was wondering, the flame only lasts a very, very brief moment and is not explosive like I would have thought, but it worked extremely well. I still donít like it but it was nice to know how to do it if I had to.
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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2007, 04:59:36 PM »

Laryn,
That's how we changed outside duals all the time on service calls.

We quit using ether when the boss bought us a great big bead seat tank doohickey.

Basically you fill the tank from the compressor and the end of the tank has a 2" pipe with a flared end to put against the bead. The other end of the pipe has a ball valve and releases all the air in one big "Puff", forcing the tire bead out against the bead seat.

It worked really good except when it came to Michelin tires, they had a stiffer sidewall that didn't flex as easily. Then we fell back on ether to seat the bead.

Dallas
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2007, 06:05:10 PM »

When I was playing in the sand dunes in California, we quite frequently had to re-seat the big paddle tires we run on the back of our sand buggies. We all carried a can of ether for the purpose of re-seating the tires since it was not uncommon to break a bead loose fairly frequently. We only run about 6 pounds of air pressure so it was relatively easy to break a bead loose.
BTW, it works great, just do not get too carried away with it. LOL
Richard
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2007, 07:42:44 PM »

Dallas,

I have seen those tanks, they are a bit pricey. My brother made one for about $50 and I will post instructions and photos when he sends them to me. Iím sure itís not UL, DOT or whatever approved, but I plan on making one. Because space is tight for me I would not likely take it on the road. The argument could be made that you can buy a lot of ether for $50 that would cover hundreds of tire changes. With my bus being an early morning ether addict, I always have it around.

Laryn
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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2007, 02:19:03 AM »

Quote
With my bus being an early morning ether addict, I always have it around.

Laryn,

Some of us like coffee some like a Coke, some have tea first thing in the morning.

Just because she likes ether, doesn't mean shes addicted.

Back in my younger days I had a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger with a 'built' 340 and a 4 speed.

The car had a minor coolant leak in one of the freeze plugs and it took me a couple of weeks to find time to fix it.

In the meantime, every morning I would go out with an old coffee pot full of water and refill the radiator. One morning my neighbor couldn't stand it anymore and came tearing out of his house as I was pouring the potful into the radiator. He looked at me with an odd look on his face and asked, "Does it like it black or with cream and sugar?"

Dallas
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Hi yo silver
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2007, 07:04:02 PM »

This reminds me of a story a friend of mine told.  He used ether to seat a tire bead while he had the valve core removed from the stem.  He declared with his usual swagger that he had "watched his old man do it a hundred times...just stand back and gimme the matches".  Well, when the match hit the ether, the tire went flying, the air whistling from the valve stem when it landed.  The first thing he did was stick his thumb on the end of the hot stem, branding a perfect little O on it!  The story got funnier from there, and I don't know if it was actually true, but I had a good laugh hearing him tell it.  Be Careful! As they always used to say on the railroad, that's what apprentices are for, give them the matches...Tee Hee!
Dennis   
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2007, 08:04:42 PM »


  Dennis,

    Sure... you are probably one of those that gave us a torpedo and said go play on
 the track with it.


   Nice bang Smiley

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