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Author Topic: News Today: Bus Crushes Man  (Read 3671 times)
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« on: July 10, 2007, 02:49:16 PM »

Bus Crushes Man
PORT REPUBLIC, N.J. - July 10, 2007 - Police and medics are on the scene along the Garden State Parkway
 after a bus came down on top of a man who was changing a tire.

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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 02:58:04 PM »

Let's all be a little more carefull when we change tires on our busses!

Proper sureing of the frame and air bags is most important!

It could happed to the most expierenced.....

Nick-
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 03:17:15 PM »

Thanks for the sobering reminder Nick.  We cannot be too careful or take anything for granted around our buses.

Best Regards, Phil
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 03:47:54 PM »

I wonder if he had a jack on the soft shoulder. 
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 05:05:12 PM »

This is exactly why I bought roadside insurance with my bus.  I don't consider myself qualified to change a tire on a bus.  One has to know one's limitations.

But Nick's right, could happen to even the most experienced mechanic.
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belfert
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 08:14:58 PM »

The guy who got crushed was a roadside service guy!  It sure looks like a mobile tire service truck in the photo.

Maybe jack stands should be used when changing a tire and not just when going under the bus.
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 09:57:59 PM »

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a roadside tire guy. I've had occasion to use them a few times, along with tire service centers, and they've never used jackstands or any type of fall-prevention equipment. Must be a time thing. And stands won't help much in the mushy conditions. I've seen bottle jacks go through hot asphalt, so the soft should in the pic is just a recipe for disaster.

I carry some 6x6 and 4x4 cribbing in the bays to put under the weight-bearing parts of the axle structure when I have to jack it up. I also have some 8x12 (ish) steel grates to go under the bottle jacks to distribute the load better. At the very minimum, a run-up block under the brake drum might have helped that guy.

Very sad,
Brian B.
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Brian Brown
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 12:40:36 AM »

Very sad indeed, I believe the service person lost his life, as the news indicated that the driver was calling for medical assistance. This location is up the road from me, and the area/ shoulder would have been sandy soil. Very easily the jack sank in if changing the curb side. A wake up call for all who change their tires, and those of us who utilize road side assistance. We should be vigilant over others who change the tires. As the road side people are possibly under time pressure and perform work without proper cribbing. Heck, who hasn't some time in their life. This poor fellow did not get away this time.

Gary
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 02:51:31 AM »

This type of inflatable jack is used by off-roaders who often need to jack their vehicles on soft or uneven ground:




They are inflated by the vehicle's own exhaust. I've never used one so I don't know how long it would take to inflate - maybe one big enough to take the weight of a bus would just take far to long to fill up. Aside from the risk of a puncture, it would seem pretty safe - no way the vehicle could 'fall off' - and very lightweight and easy to store too.

Jeremy
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belfert
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 05:37:05 AM »

They make heavier duty lifting bags for fire depts and such.  Exhaust would be a bit impractical for a tire guy, but I don't know if their air compressor would ever fill one in a reasonable timeframe.
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 05:56:00 AM »

Jacking a bus (or anything heavy) in sand requires a large base to prevent the jack from shifting. We have road service, but also carry a couple pieces of 2X12 about 2' long to use as a base under the jack.  Jack
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2007, 06:40:20 AM »

The link below has the most detailed report I have seen.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/top_three/story/7490297p-7385847c.html
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 06:55:01 AM »

Very sad that this young man lost his life. Cry

Here is a link for ASE Systems that manufactures air jacks like the fire & rescue teams use.  Quick inflation time, large capacity & jacking height up to 18"......

http://www.asesystems.com/

Thanks,
Darrin
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Darrin Bruner
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2007, 07:21:30 AM »

What size / thickness steel plate would be needed to keep a jack from sinking in sandy soil?  Our soil here is so sandy that it's almost impractical to jack heavy car without a piece of wood under the jack.  There's a lot of conduit being installed underground where I work.  The company has these huge steel plates about 10' X 8' and about 1" thick to lay over the trenches where driveways are.  I'd LOVE to have a few of those at home to park the bus on.  I'm curious how much those plates weigh; they're lifted with a back hoe and chains.

David
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2007, 07:29:25 AM »

David:

You should find some info of interest in the following link

http://www.comcoreupi.com/roadplate.htm
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Dallas
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2007, 07:56:47 AM »

3267.623 pounds

Aluminum: 1123.896 pounds

Copper: 3729.668 pounds

Gold: 8042.098 pounds.

Steel has a density of 490.059564 pounds per cubic foot

Aluminum has a density of 168.555519 pounds per cubic foot

Copper has a density of 559.354611 pounds per cubic foot

Gold has a density of 1206.10838 pounds per cubic foot

More of my useless trivia.

Gold closed at $664.45USD in Hon Kong yesterday.

a cubic foot of gold would be worth $12822379.41

Start savin' them gold teeth!

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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2007, 10:04:04 AM »

What size / thickness steel plate would be needed to keep a jack from sinking in sandy soil?  Our soil here is so sandy that it's almost impractical to jack heavy car without a piece of wood under the jack.  There's a lot of conduit being installed underground where I work.  The company has these huge steel plates about 10' X 8' and about 1" thick to lay over the trenches where driveways are.  I'd LOVE to have a few of those at home to park the bus on.  I'm curious how much those plates weigh; they're lifted with a back hoe and chains.

David

You have to know how much the soil will carry. (It depends on lots of things  Sad ) You also have to be sure the load is near the center of the plate, otherwise the edge will start sinking & you no longer have a stable platform.

Heavy plate steel is running~$/.45 per pound, so you're looking at ~$1500 for a plate.

If your bus will always be parked in the same spot when you are working in it, dig a hole at the jacking points (give yourself room to miss the exact spot a little) & pour concrete footers to support the jack.

When you dig the footers, keep in mind that future Dave might install a pit.
That pit will make future Dave a happy camper when he has to service the bus.  Grin
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 10:10:48 AM by kyle4501 » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 10:24:51 AM »

I'm thinking of a plate about 18" X 18" for use while on the road, etc.  My parking area at home really sucks.  It's sandy and under a nice big oak tree... good for shade, bad for nasty black stains on the bus.  I'm considering digging down about 6" or so and having a load or two of road base brought in and tamped down.  It won't support a jack, but at least my tires won't sink as badly.
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 10:35:58 AM »

A 18 x 18 will be ~92 lbs if 1" thick.

If I could toss one of those under the bus, I wouldn't need a jack.  Grin

Probably easier for me to have a run-up block & cribbing to use under the jack.
better still would be a hydraulic leveling system that could lift a wheel off the ground. Yeah, that's the ticket!  Grin
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 10:59:52 AM »


better still would be a hydraulic leveling system that could lift a wheel off the ground. Yeah, that's the ticket!  Grin


It's doable, and it'd give you an excuse to buy a sports car:

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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2007, 11:07:04 AM »

A 18 x 18 will be ~92 lbs if 1" thick.

I'm thinking of something a little thinner than 1"... maybe around 3/8" or so.  Mainly, I'd like it to use on less than ideal pavement.  I wouldn't think it'd be good to try to use it alone on the sand, of course.

David
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Dallas
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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 11:45:18 AM »

David,

You may want to reconsider carrying the steel plate with you.

Why not consider 2 pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood? One stacked on top of the other will be more than adequate to support the weight your trying to lift.

I have that setup and at Timmonsville lifted the entire back end of the bus in the bottomless muck they called topsoil.

The steel isn't going to gain you anything that the plywood won't do, and it's a real pain to move around.

During WWII an bomber built by the British, called the DeHavilland Mosquito was made almost entirely of plywood. It had twin engines Merlin Rolls Royce 12 cylinder engines, and carried a heavier bomb load than the comparable Aluminum and steel planes. It was also faster than the ME109 and became known as a fighter plane as well as a bomber.
It seems plywood and steel have similar qualities.

Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 12:02:36 PM »

What we use for concrete footings as a base measurement of; load bearing value of soil is 2500 PSF (average) and up to 4000 PSF for 95% compacked but it could be as low as 500 PSF for sand. 3/8 MS plate would be thick enough but depending on the soil conditions the foot print size could greatly vary. On a 40k bus lifting 1 side up with 2500 PSF soil you would need 4 sq ft of foot print, with 3/8 MS PL that would be 61 lbs. I guess that's why they use large air bags for lifting in soft soils.
Ron
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 12:42:40 PM »

You may want to reconsider carrying the steel plate with you.

Why not consider 2 pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood?

One reason is that there is such low clearance under the bus.  If I happened to have a flat on the front and, for some reason, I needed to change it, I know that there wouldn't be enough clearance.  I'm trying to think of something quick and easy to prevent what happened to the guy in the original post of this thread!  Of course, I'm pretty nervous working under there anyway, which can be a safety benefit in itself.  I do have several pieces (ranging from 18" to 24" long) of 2X12 in one of the bays that would work if I ran one of the duals up.  They still wouldn't work on the front, though.  When I was changing a rear air bag, leveling valve, and inversion valve last summer, I put a 3' section of treated 8X8 (maybe bigger, it's part of a beach house 'stilt') under the section that goes between the air bags.  That first day, just getting the bus braced and the wheels off was enough to do.  I came out the next day and the section of 8X8 was down about 2" in the soil.  Eventually I'm going to have to do something about parking at home.  At present, I store most of my bus stuff - tools, parts and pieces, lumber, etc - in the bays for lack of better storage.  It's sort of a rolling tool shed / shop.  I'm sure I could come up with whatever plywood I needed from my 'inventory'.  I'll put those big 8X8's somewhere, too.  You never know when one may need to block up a bus!

David
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 02:34:01 PM »

My one and only (so far) roadside service call taught me a few things.

Carry at least one drive on ramp (I did) with you.

On my front flat we just drove it up on the ramp and the tire man had easy access to get his jack under.

It also gave him 8" of safety factor, but like a lot of these guys, didn't seem to be a concern.

I also saw the ether tire inflation/bead seat.  Very cool, but dangerous.

Cliff
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 04:12:19 PM »

Amen on the run-up block, Cliff. They also make great levelers if you tend to camp "rustic" the way we often do. They also help "take the crown" out of your typical residential street.

For those who don't have run-ups, here's how I build mine: http://www.thefamilybus.net/projects/blocks/  There's other, probably better methods... but these work.

David, if I could at all avoid it, I'd not jack up my bus on anything other than concrete or asphalt. We have ours parked on a long concrete driveway that goes partially into the backyard. I'd like to get her even further back there, so I came up with a railroad tie "pit" that could kill two birds... provide a driveway extension and proide me a safer way to get under her.

Take a look at the sketch... basically just plies of ties. The top would be continuous for the drive tires, but the other horizontal rows can just be a skeleton of alternating members, with long tie-backs at the bottom tying the two "stacks" together that then get backfilled with road-base (or pea gravel). The idea is that I would back up to the pit, then put my run-up blocks under the steers, then back up the angle of the pit and the run-up blocks. The bus could safely be 12"-18" up in the air then (the back probably higher than the front).

I haven't worked it all out yet, but it's just an idea for you.

Brian B.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 04:16:25 PM by Buffalo SpaceShip » Logged

Brian Brown
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« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2007, 09:52:00 AM »

For those who have air bags and a manual leveling system there is a simple answer. Carry enough blocking to block up the corner of the chassis (at the jacking point). Then dump the air from the air bags and jack up the axle. A small jack is sufficient to lift one end of the axle since you are not lifting the bus. If you make sure your blocking under the chassis is secure, there is no risk with the jack. With a front axle flat, you almost always need to drive it up on a block to get room for a bottle jack that has enough lift height. The stubby jacks will only lift it high enough to get a regular height jack under the axle.
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« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2007, 10:06:01 AM »

Hmmmmmm! And for those Eagle owners?  LOL
Richard



For those who have air bags and a manual leveling system there is a simple answer. Carry enough blocking to block up the corner of the chassis (at the jacking point). Then dump the air from the air bags and jack up the axle. A small jack is sufficient to lift one end of the axle since you are not lifting the bus. If you make sure your blocking under the chassis is secure, there is no risk with the jack. With a front axle flat, you almost always need to drive it up on a block to get room for a bottle jack that has enough lift height. The stubby jacks will only lift it high enough to get a regular height jack under the axle.
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2007, 12:08:00 PM »

Hmmmmmm! And for those Eagle owners?  LOL
Richard

Don't you know, they ride so well that they don't get flats  Shocked


Who can know if the support point hasn't rusted away. . . . LOL  Grin

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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2007, 12:17:28 PM »

Hmmmmmm! And for those Eagle owners?  LOL
Richard

Well I wouldn't try this if I owned an Eagle, but "do it yer way!"
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« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2007, 01:24:03 PM »

For those who have air bags and a manual leveling system there is a simple answer. Carry enough blocking to block up the corner of the chassis (at the jacking point). Then dump the air from the air bags and jack up the axle. A small jack is sufficient to lift one end of the axle since you are not lifting the bus. If you make sure your blocking under the chassis is secure, there is no risk with the jack. With a front axle flat, you almost always need to drive it up on a block to get room for a bottle jack that has enough lift height. The stubby jacks will only lift it high enough to get a regular height jack under the axle.

AFAIK, the only jacking points on my MC-8 are part of the suspension that's not effected by airbag height.  I'm not sure of where else it's OK to jack it, but the manual shows these (suspension) locations.

David
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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2007, 01:43:32 PM »

David: You have to have some way to jack the bus body separate from the axles. To change airbags, which are connected between the body and the axle requires raising the body while the wheel sits on the ground. Your manual should show you where to position the jack.
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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2007, 06:46:17 PM »

Stan,

I'm not sure.  When I changed air bags, I blocked between the two suspension 'parts'; the upper section is the air beam.  There's an air bag at each end of this 'part' so I put a 4x4 with a 2x4 together between the two and let the air out of the bag.  Maybe some MCI experts can give some input.

David
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« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2007, 06:07:25 PM »

David: The usual  body jacking points on MCI buses is under the bulkhead immediately behind the front wheel, and under the bulkhead immediately in front of the drive axle. I have never had occasion to jack up a MC-8 but I think you would be quite save using those places.
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