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Author Topic: Cooling Solutions  (Read 3551 times)
TomC
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« on: July 11, 2007, 08:23:29 AM »

As many of you know, I had my 8V-71N turbocharged and air to air intercooled by Don Fairchild in Bakersfield, Ca. Since the bus was a Portland, Or bus, there were cooling issues to contend with the additional BTUs since we also increased the injectors from 65 to 75-or from 300hp and 800lb/ft torque to 375hp and 1125lb/ft torque (on the engine dyno). 
The first thing I did was to upgrade the radiator from the 5 row straight fin to the newer design of 6 row serpentine fin core (the biggest I could get in).  While that helped, I was still slowly overheating to the point I couldn't get up the Cajon pass on a 90 degree plus day.
I then cut out two 16"h x 24"w holes in the rear engine door and put aluminum louvers in.  That helped-you could really feel the heat coming out of the engine compartment.
Next was to install the Hayden transcooler with elec fan (in the right side engine door).  This I installed so the hot oil comes from the Allison (V730) through the Hayden then to the normal shell cooler.  This so I can take some of the strain off the engine radiator.  I plumbed in a T so I could use the thermostat provided (180) and wired it directly to the alternator with a 20 amp fuse and a single pole double throw switch, where I could turn it off, let it run on automatic, or turn it on continuously. It works well on automatic-it will run about 10 minutes after shutting the engine off.
Then went to Home Depot and bought a patio misting system that came with 5 nozzles.  I eventually increased it up to 15 nozzles (they don't flow much water) with the PVC pipe having 4 rows of pipe in front of the radiator. I plumbed into a T to my outside shower, bought a heavy duty solenoid and wired it to the emergency engine shut down that is not in use since it is a turbo engine now with spring loaded injectors.
Lastly, the one thing I discovered that most of you should check is the area around the radiator.  The air leading to the radiator cannot be bleeding hot engine air into it.  On mine, I have a 10" metal shroud on the intake side that I made sure was in good shape.  I thought that when the outside door was down that it stopped the rest of the hot air from recirculating.  Wrong! I was walking next to the radiator intake and noticed a lot of heat coming out from the intake.  I went to Home Depot and bought some cheap metal roof flashing and made a dam above the radiator to block the air off and sealed it with duct tape.  The left side had a rubber seal that had bent outward, rebent it in and held it in with some nylon ties.  Now walking next to the engine, no heat coming out-just feel the suction of the fan.
Took the bus for a ride last Sunday, when it was 90 degrees at the bottom and 102 at the top of Cajon pass (I-15 out of L.A.-5% grade for about 4 miles).  Started using the misters at the bottom and backed off on the pedal a bit dropping to second to pull the hill at 40mph (still faster than the old 30mph).  Stayed below 200 degrees.  So all the cooling modifications each helped to curb the overheating. 
Next month I'm going to Mammoth Aug 16-20 and staying at the Mammoth RV Resort with family members (have 3 sites reserved).  This involves driving up 395 that skirts Death Valley-which means over 100 degree driving.  We will probably leave the night before at 5 in the afternoon to do most of the hot driving in the early evening-perhaps getting as far as Bishop (4000ft elevation) then climb up to the 7800ft elevation of Mammoth in the morning of the 16th.  Should be a nice mini trip in the high Sierras.
Hope your trips are good to!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 10:35:48 AM »

Great post, Tom!

Any pics?? Esp. of your misting system and radiator shroud upgrades.

If you haven't done so already, heat-wrapping the exhaust after the turbo might also help with temps.

Thanks,
Brian B.
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 10:52:10 AM »



Thanks for the info. Have tried every thing to keep my 04 cool. I am now working on a mister system. I would like to know what type of solenoid you used. It would need to be 12 volt for the old 04

Thanks
Uncle ned
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David Anderson
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 11:36:32 AM »

Tom,

I don't know if this would help, but reread this thread from last year about how I solved my overheating in my Eagle.  After 4 years of spending money and engineering different solutions, this finally did the job.

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=1464.0

Good Luck,

David
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Jerry Liebler
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 11:57:44 AM »

Tom,
    Your next step is a new and better fan.  I looked at a 4107 that Southern Oregon Diesel had turboed, it had a V730 and a very different fan.  The bus is now owned by a gentleman named Barclay who posts occasionally.  He has no cooling issues, is in California and does lots of mountain driving.  The upgraded fan was, as I remember. a 12 bladed composite adjustable pitch unit.   I believe the fan on Barclay's bus came from  http://www.multi-wing.net/products/index.htm.   
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 01:51:01 PM »

The solenoid I used is from ASCO.  2 way normally closed with a 12v dc coil that can be connected either way (has two wires).  Not cheap, ($150), but then again I hate el cheapo stuff.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2007, 04:14:28 PM »

Hi Tom,

Great post!

Sounds like your cooling problems are gone...

I wish I had the time to tackle a mister project but, I gung ho on my Jake brakes right now.

I located a set and had them shipped to the Amish Detroit mechanics in PA. Then onto my bus... I Hope!

Have fun on your trip and post some pics.

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 04:19:33 PM »

Nick, do not forget to build a small remote relay box to control your jakes.
Richard

Hi Tom,

Great post!

Sounds like your cooling problems are gone...

I wish I had the time to tackle a mister project but, I gung ho on my Jake brakes right now.

I located a set and had them shipped to the Amish Detroit mechanics in PA. Then onto my bus... I Hope!

Have fun on your trip and post some pics.

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 07:08:57 AM »

Full shroud and a flexalite fan......left hand motor use off road blower blade....misters will work as a bandaide...better to fix the problem if you actually use the bus....spent a summer fighting overheating after changing to 671ta ddec and rasing the hp to over 300 with original radiator..tried every fan combination on the market...multi blade adjustables look neat but after exploding two changed to flexalite ...flowes over twice the air...homebuilt shroud and flexlite off road fan cured the problem...can go anywhere in any weather...air flow works....gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2007, 08:08:41 AM »

Hey Dave Anderson!   I've been reading your great thread about your new fan, etc. 

How is it working out?  Did you get a thermostatic fan clutch or similar?  What was the name of the 16 blade unit you purchased? 

You may have to become a dealer for these fans 'cause you've sold me!
Thx.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 10:12:02 AM »

No, I never put clutches in.  I didn't want another job, and I had spend enough $$$ already.  It works fine like it is.  You can get this fan for Eagles from Dan Goodson.  He has sold a bunch.  I think they are made in Holland.

http://www.goodsonbussales.com/radiator.htm

Good luck,

David
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 11:49:48 AM »

David,
  Just curious, do you think they make them for Buffalos??  (8V71 in a 4108) I "THINK" mine is cooling ok, but I info like this is always good to know.
  By the way...................... Thanx for posting all this. I'm sure you are helping out plenty of us.

   Appreciative,
        Chaz
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 12:16:56 PM »

David do you have a link to a picture and specs on this fan??? I exploded two of the composite blade aluminum hub adjustable fans in the same price range from one of the major bus parts suppliers and the warranty was no good(from factory) Just currious...gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 11:55:50 PM »

I don't have a cooling problem but if there is an experienced bus guy in Bakersfield, I need to know about him!

Where can Don Fairchild be found?
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TomC
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2007, 03:24:06 AM »

Don Fairchild in Bakersfield- 661-391-4520.  I am taking my bus to him this Saturday being at his shop at around noon for a fine tuning of the fuel injection.  His shop is right by the airport.  Call him and get his address and come by on Sat with your bus too!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Songman
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2007, 06:52:44 AM »

Thanks Tom. I'll see what the boss (wife) has planned for Saturday. I would love to see what you have done with your bus so I'll definitely swing by if I can.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2007, 06:22:36 PM »

Here are my fan pictures.

Picture 1 is the fan on the hub with a cardboard template to set the hole

Picture 2 is just the fan.

Picture 3 is the new metal shroud installed.   The bottom ran wild until I established the height, then I removed and cut it to length.  The shroud was made from 1/8" plate and I had a welder plasma cut the circle out of it.  on the back of the plate, I had him weld a 1" wide strap all the way around the hole.
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TomC
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2007, 08:39:19 PM »

What does that sound like from the outside when revved up-is it noisy?  My 8 blade aluminum fan is not noisy at speed, but definitely pulls the air.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2007, 09:31:02 AM »

It sounds like a small jet turbine, and it will suck you in when you walk by it at fast idle.

David
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Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2007, 09:37:17 AM »

It sounds like a small jet turbine, and it will suck you in when you walk by it at fast idle.

David

How would I walk by at a fast idle?   Cheesy Cheesy

another question:

Isn't "fast idle" an oxymoron?  Grin Wink Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2007, 11:54:12 AM »

Quote from: Dallas
How would I walk by at a fast idle?   Cheesy Cheesy

another question:

Isn't "fast idle" an oxymoron?  Grin Wink Smiley             

Walking by at Fast idle is when yer just walking around kinda idle, But at a fast pace!

And I thought that oxymoron or something like that is one of those hybrid gases like Oxy Acetylene or like that!

Grin  BK  Grin
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Songman
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2007, 03:02:58 PM »

Tom, it was nice meeting you and Don this afternoon. I learned a lot. You both know your stuff! That's the kind of interaction I need to keep me inspired on my conversion.
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TomC
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2007, 09:24:35 PM »

Hopefully will see your RTS in the near future.  Email me anytime if you have a question.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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