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Author Topic: Spin on filters and GM branding questions.  (Read 1239 times)
zubzub
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'53 4104. Roadworthy but rough around the edges.


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« on: July 15, 2007, 01:40:29 AM »

Going to go look at maybe get a '53 4104. I will try to attach a pic of the engine.Will want to use spin on filters as this seems to be the way to go, especially with the fact the bus has sat for awhile. 
1.So, is there anything speciall I should look for in spin on, brands to use/avoid? (or maybe you think spin on are a waste if so tell me)
2. Also where do I get this stuff, truck supply stores I guess, any good ones to suggest (minnesota) or national chains to look for?
3. Engine kill is inoperative, (p.o. used clutch and brake to stop engine) I believe this is a skinner valve, is it possible to manually switch this in the eng bay?  I am guessing that someone overrode all the safeties to keep the engine running, I will probably start by wiring something simple and go from there. Anytips?
BTW I am aware that an engine that needs to be stopped using clutch and brakes may be sucking oil, i will determine if that is the cause.
4. Finally seems that most of the pics of Detroits I see are branded as such, does the fact that this one says GM mean anything or am I just ignorant ?Actually I know I'm ignorant, that's why I hang out here!
Thanks as always for all help in these matters, Patrick
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 01:47:21 AM by zubzub » Logged

Dallas
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2007, 05:19:37 AM »

Going to go look at maybe get a '53 4104. I will try to attach a pic of the engine.Will want to use spin on filters as this seems to be the way to go, especially with the fact the bus has sat for awhile. 
1.So, is there anything speciall I should look for in spin on, brands to use/avoid? (or maybe you think spin on are a waste if so tell me)
2. Also where do I get this stuff, truck supply stores I guess, any good ones to suggest (minnesota) or national chains to look for?
3. Engine kill is inoperative, (p.o. used clutch and brake to stop engine) I believe this is a skinner valve, is it possible to manually switch this in the eng bay?  I am guessing that someone overrode all the safeties to keep the engine running, I will probably start by wiring something simple and go from there. Anytips?
BTW I am aware that an engine that needs to be stopped using clutch and brakes may be sucking oil, i will determine if that is the cause.
4. Finally seems that most of the pics of Detroits I see are branded as such, does the fact that this one says GM mean anything or am I just ignorant ?Actually I know I'm ignorant, that's why I hang out here!
Thanks as always for all help in these matters, Patrick


By all means, go with the spin on filters.... It makes it much easier to change filters. Adapters are available at Napa, Fleetpride and most major Truck parts suppliers.
You'll just need to ask for the Detroit Diesel primary and secondary adapters. Mine are made by AC, but I've seen them by Purolator, Fram and DDA.

With the air shut down, check to see if it's getting air. It may be bad, but I would say that it's more likely that you have a bad connection or relay. A little trouble shooting will go a long way before throwing parts and money at a problem.

Before Detroit Diesel was Detroit Diesel, it was GMC Diesel. (Screamin' Jimmy comes to mind), Your valve cover and blowere intake housing probably still reflect that.

A couple of years ago I was going to update my engine with a 6-71 aluminum valve cover I bought on eBay but I finally decided I'd keep my old, stamped cover that has "GMC" stamped in it.

Feel free to ask all the questions you want to here, that's what this group is all about. From the freshest newby to the oldest and most experienced hand, we all have something to offer.

Dallas
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Buffalo SpaceShip
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2007, 07:53:28 AM »

Patrick, I usually get my spin-on filters from NAPA. They tend to be a bit pricier than other outlets, but they can get just about anything I need in just a few hours (shipped from a central warehouse). The counter guys only occasionally look at me funny... like when I pick up an air filter that's bigger than a microwave oven. "What is that for?!," they ask.

NAPA re-brands Wix filters and quality is very good.

By all means fix the shut down cylinder. No sense continuing to put unnecessary wear on the clutch disc. It could be something as simple as an o-ring that needs to be replaced or a wire that has lost continuity. These old coaches are refreshingly simple in operation compared to a modern computer-controlled vehicle and parts sources can be as varied as mail order coach specialty parts, to NAPA, a truck stop, and all the way on down to your local hardware store.

HTH,
Brian B.
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
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Roanoke, VA
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2007, 09:14:30 AM »

Other than convenience and maybe a small price difference there is nothing wrong with the old cartridge filters. An advantage with the old style is that you get to see what the filter has caught. With a spin on you would have to cut it open (Not a big deal). I was all about changing mine and have had several well known honest bus shops/parts sellers tell me that if its working, why bother? I also have a box of filters that I would want to use up before making the switch. I will admit though, I like the looks of a spin on set up when the deck lid is open.

If the engine was sucking oil it would be in a run-away situation and would not be drivable. I think you just have a problem somewhere in the system that shuts it down. It should be an easy fix; there is not much to it.

I am amazed at what NAPA can get or even stocks. I bounce between them and the Freightliner dealer here in Roanoke. The Detroit Diesel shop is across the street from where I work and they have to order everything, charge freight, and demand outrageous prices for their stuff. I have yet to buy one item from them. I am lucky that my company has accounts with almost every parts supplier that I know and it allows me to get huge discounts on what I buy. Sometimes up to 50% off what someone would have to pay if they walked in off the street. My point is to try and find someone that has an account, and will let you use their discount and pay cash for you purchase. It would be worth it. Most places will give a standard discount if you just ask. After they give you a quote you can say “Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you that I am a mechanic trying to restore an antique bus, can I take advantage of the mechanics discount for that item?” Of the many, many places I purchase parts (for all of my vehicles) I have only found that the local Volvo/ Mercedes dealer is the only one that wouldn’t cut me a discount.

Good luck, keep posted on your progress and take lots of photos.

Laryn


Photo of my orginal filter setup:

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L. Christley - W3EYE Amateur Extra
Blue Ridge Mountains, S.W. Virginia
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TomC
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2007, 09:20:24 AM »

When GM first made the 2 strokers that came out in 1938, GM did not make a marine version.  Enter Graymarine to convert them-hence the Graymarine 6-71.  GM wanted to start selling their 2 stroke engines to other truck manufacturers, but the other truck companies did not want to fuel their competition.  So GM separated out the Diesel engine side and made both the Detroit Diesel engine and the Electro Motive Diesel for the larger engines.  This happened in the early 60's.  I've seen some 8V-71 from 4501's with the GM valve covers.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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