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Author Topic: MORE QUESTIONS ,DETROIT DIESEL  (Read 9554 times)
scottie
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« on: July 26, 2007, 04:18:34 PM »

HELLO AGAIN EVERYONE
GEE I THINK IM HOOKED ,I GOT MY FIRST COPY OF "BUS CONVERSIONS" MAG  A WEEK AGO READ IT COVER TO COVER AND NOW I FIND IM HANGING AROUND MY MAIL BOX LOOKING FOR AUGUSTS COPY ....

FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DETROIT DIESEL ENGINE
8V71 OR 6V92...FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN READING SO FAR ..8 CYL /INLINE/ 71 CUBIC INCH PER CYLINDER. AND THE OTHER ONE IS A 6 CYLINDER/INLINE/92 CUBIC INCH PER CYLINDER...IS THAT RIGHT ??
OK SO THE 8V71 IS IN THE OLDER BUSES ,IM I RIGHT TO SAY THE 6V92 HAS MORE HORSE POWER??
ANY PROBLEMS  GETTING PARTS,OR HAVEING REPAIRS DONE AT A SHOP ON THE OLDER ENGINES?Huh
ARE THE PARTS CHEAPER FOR THE OLDER ENGINE??
IS THE NEWER ENGINES BETTER ON FUEL....WHAT SHOULD I GET IN M.P.G ON A MCI WITH A 8V71 OR A 6V92 Huh
IS THERE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN POWER BETWEEN THE TWO??
OK HERES A LOADED QUESTION...AND I KNOW ABOUT CONDITION/MILES ETC ETC  BUT....
WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT TO PAY FOR A RUNNING/COMPLETE/ CLEAN/ALL SEATS IN...MID 80S MCI??
THERE ARE  4 BUSES IN THE SAME AUCTION ON E BAY RIGHT NOW MCI ,,81,85,88,87 ITS IN CANADA SO I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BOARDERS...ITS IN DRIVEING DISTANCE...3 HOURS,I ASK THE GUY IF HE DOESNT SELL ALL 4 TOGETHER WILL HE SELL THEM SEPARATE HE SAID HE WOULD...SO ...10 GRAND?? 8 GRAND?? WHAT DO YOU THINK?
THANKS AGAIN
SCOTTIE FROM ONTARIO.. Cry
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TomC
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2007, 04:34:40 PM »

Welcome Scottie!  As to the two different displacement series for the 2 stroke Detroit Diesels, the 71 series in buses used the 4-71, 6-71, 6V-71, 8V-71, 12V-71.  The 71 series first came out in 1938.  The 92 series used in buses is the 6V-92TA and the 8V-92TA-an in line 6-92 was never made (too bad).  The 92 series first came in 1976.  The 92 series is always turboed and aftercooled.  Most of the 71 series are not turboed, although there are a few (like me) that have turboed the 71 series with very good results.  Because of the smaller components, the 71 series tends to be more tolerant to both horsepower increases and to run them up at a higher rpm (truckers were know to turn the 8V-71's up to 2800rpm).  92 series doesn't like to be revved above 2350rpm since their valves will float.  Both series will get similar mileage when set up the same.  When the 92 series is electronically injected (DDEC-Detroit Diesel Electronic Controls) they will get about 1 mpg better than the mechanically injected engines.  The only DDEC 71 series I knew of is the 6-71TA and the 12V-71TA.  As far as I know the 6V-71 and 8V-71 never had DDEC.  Both series of 2 stroke engines are getting harder and harder to find qualified mechanics to work on them.  Plus they require using straight sae40 weight engine oil-like Chevron Delo 100, that is also getting harder to find.  Although the 2 stroke engines are extremely reliable engines, they are dirty smog wise, get less than average fuel economy and eventually all of us will have to change out to modern 4 stroke type Diesels-but hopefully not for another 10 years or so.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
buswarrior
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2007, 04:35:09 PM »

Hello Scottie.

1st, turn off the caps lock, it's hard to read, and some consider it shouting.

I'm here in Toronto, if that helps.

Ok, the V in 8V71 and 6V92 means a V block engine. There are 6-71 and 6V71 engines, one an inline, the other a V block.

An MCI of the vintage you are considering will produce similiar fuel economy figures, the 6V92, all things being equal, might squeeze a shade better mileage than an 8V71.

The 6V92 has a turbocharger, the 8V71 does not.

Oh, with an auto tranny, the fuel economy will be running somewhere around 6 miles per US gallon, about 7 miles per imperial gallon on the highway, it drops hard if you start doing city driving.

As to power, an 8V71 typically was set at 270 HP, with a max of 304 HP if you spend money on injectors and advance the timing (SAE gross was 318HP)

A 6V92 might have a bunch of settings, 260 HP was popular in the mid 80's for a stock engine. There are two kinds of 6V92, one with mechanical injectors, one with electronic injectors and an engine computer. The mechanical engines may be hot rodded to stock numbers of 350 HP with the right infusion of CA$H. The electronic motors need some cheating/lying/stealing and then some to hotrod, which will cost you LARGE $$$ if you don't know the cheat/lie/steal yourself.

All depends on you, the 6V92 has a little more torque and will hill climb marginally better at higher alititudes, the 8V71 will snap off the line and out into traffic stronger.

They are all slugs compared to a car.

Pick the coach with the combination of lowest drivetrain mileage and best mechanical condition.

They all will empty your wallet and break your heart.

Just ask any of us!!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Dallas
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2007, 04:40:34 PM »

HELLO AGAIN EVERYONE
GEE I THINK IM HOOKED ,I GOT MY FIRST COPY OF "BUS CONVERSIONS" MAG  A WEEK AGO READ IT COVER TO COVER AND NOW I FIND IM HANGING AROUND MY MAIL BOX LOOKING FOR AUGUSTS COPY ....

FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DETROIT DIESEL ENGINE
8V71 OR 6V92...FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN READING SO FAR ..8 CYL /INLINE/ 71 CUBIC INCH PER CYLINDER. AND THE OTHER ONE IS A 6 CYLINDER/INLINE/92 CUBIC INCH PER CYLINDER...IS THAT RIGHT ??
Detroit diesel 2 stroke cycle engines. 8V71 = 8 cylinders, V configuration, 71 CID per cyl. dry liner, around 260-270HP in stock configuration. Some Military uses put them up to 950HP, but life expectancy suffers.
6V92 6 Cylinders, V configuration, 92CID per cyl. wet liner, around 350HP standard. 1150HP in Military use, again, longevity suffers with increase in HP.

I don't like Wet liners because of cavitation problems and other things. But your mileage may vary,


OK SO THE 8V71 IS IN THE OLDER BUSES ,IM I RIGHT TO SAY THE 6V92 HAS MORE HORSE POWER??
ANY PROBLEMS  GETTING PARTS,OR HAVEING REPAIRS DONE AT A SHOP ON THE OLDER ENGINES?Huh
ARE THE PARTS CHEAPER FOR THE OLDER ENGINE??
Not many mechanics at even Detroit dealers still know how to work on the 2 stroke cycle engines. Parts prices depends on where you get the parts. No problem with parts availability

IS THE NEWER ENGINES BETTER ON FUEL....WHAT SHOULD I GET IN M.P.G ON A MCI WITH A 8V71 OR A 6V92 Huh
IS THERE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN POWER BETWEEN THE TWO??
Depends on where you put your right foot while in gear.

OK HERES A LOADED QUESTION...AND I KNOW ABOUT CONDITION/MILES ETC ETC  BUT....
WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT TO PAY FOR A RUNNING/COMPLETE/ CLEAN/ALL SEATS IN...MID 80S MCI??
As little as possible. They were taken out of service for a reason, not because the owner just got tired of looking at them.

THERE ARE  4 BUSES IN THE SAME AUCTION ON E BAY RIGHT NOW MCI ,,81,85,88,87 ITS IN CANADA SO I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BOARDERS...ITS IN DRIVEING DISTANCE...3 HOURS,I ASK THE GUY IF HE DOESNT SELL ALL 4 TOGETHER WILL HE SELL THEM SEPARATE HE SAID HE WOULD...SO ...10 GRAND?? 8 GRAND?? WHAT DO YOU THINK?
THANKS AGAIN
SCOTTIE FROM ONTARIO.. Cry

Please turn your Caps lock off. It's not polite to yell.
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scottie
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 05:00:17 PM »

hi
sorry about the caps..im on eye drops and it easier to see , i didnt know i was yelling
boy you guys really know your engines.
so what year did they switch to 4 strokes??
are the 4 strokes more horse power ..would be smoother  too...
how would i know a 4 stroke from a 2 stroke...just the year of the bus??
thank you all again
scottie

p.s bus warrior the 4 buses that i mention that are on ebay are in the toronto area.im off for the next few weeks and was going to check them out
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buswarrior
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 05:07:20 PM »

post a lnk to them.

You really, really don't want a former Greyhound of modern vintage....

undercapitalized for the entire life of the bus.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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prevost82
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2007, 05:19:30 PM »

Prevost and MCI went to 4 stroke in the mid 90's 1994 to 96 and run around 60 to 100K on price
Ron
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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2007, 06:41:49 PM »

Eagle also used the 4 stroke around the same time frame as MCI/Prevost, but I don't think they made a whole lot of them as this was just before Eagle closed up shop.  Dina also used the 4 stroke starting in 1995, the first year they were sold in the USA.

The Dina will generally be the least expensive for a 4 stroke with Allison B500, but some of the parts like brakes are expensive.  MAK has an MCI 102C3 with series 50 engine for a good price, but it has the older non-overdrive Allison automatic if that matters.  Mileage should still be good.  That 102C3 would have been my choice for a bus if MAK had it at the time I was looking.

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scottie
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 04:26:54 AM »

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Siver-Ride-Coach-Buses_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6728QQihZ013QQitemZ230155475946QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

there is the link to the 4 buses on ebay  (hope it works)

i have heard that warning before "stay away from grey hound buses" !!!
all the buses we are buying are used,bought from different companies that rode people across the country...did grey hound not look after thier buses??
what about other companies trailways,travelways etc etc ...
scottie
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Dallas
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2007, 04:48:36 AM »

Greyhound went broke years ago and as one of the cost cutting measures, they, in their infinite wisdom, decided preventive maintenance was not required any longer.

This includes oil changes, lube jobs, electrical repair, brakes, steering, etc.

All that is done to a greyhound bus is the very minimum required to make it minimally street legal.

I looked at a couple of MC12's a few years ago, fresh off the line that were cobbled together with electrical tape on twisted wire splices and had duct tape around the air intake.

Greyhounds have a reputation of just not caring. At least once a month along I-95 in South Carolina we have one catch fire on the side of the road.

Other companies reputations depend on the individual company. You'll have to do your homework on each one.

What exactly are you looking to do with a bus and how much are you looking to spend on it and the conversion? These questions need to be addressed in order to find a good fit for you.

If you are going to be going only a few thousand miles a year, it seems to me the difference in the cost of acquiring a 4 stroke engine would be better served  buying a 2 cycle


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Le Mirage
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2007, 06:45:16 AM »

Scottie
I sent to you an e-mail but I have had a problem with your address. Can you write me please. I have a bus (completed to 80%) for you if you are interesting...
GaŽtan


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GaŽtan & Manon (french canadian)
Prevost, Le Mirage XL, 1987
Quebec, Canada

http://latchodromquebec.blogspot.com/2010/05/la-fin-du-voyage.html

belfert
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2007, 06:54:54 AM »

As others have said, I would stay away from an ex-Greyhound unless it is practically free and you have the time and skills to refurbish the mechanicals that are neglected and worn out.

I saw a row of MC-12s being stored for Transit Sales down in Chicago.  Those buses looked like they had been driven to hell and back on a daily basis.  Stainless was all dented, cargo bay doors that wouldn't stay closed, and cargo bays bashed in.  I could probably have found a lot more problems if I had spent more than two minutes looking at them.
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buswarrior
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2007, 03:06:05 PM »

Scottie, those buses are in the hands of a third hand bottom rung operator who was never not in hard times, and has not been in existance for more than two or three minutes, if you know what I'm saying...

Who can't even properly identify the drivetrains or put up a full set of pictures.

Now, there may be a bargain hiding here, but I would be very suspicious and hesitant.

There are many buses of the same vintage available in the province with known histories.

happy coaching!
buswarrior



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superpickle
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2007, 04:27:13 PM »

http://http://cgi.ebay.ca/Siver-Ride-Coach-Buses_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6728QQihZ013QQitemZ230155475946QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

there is the link to the 4 buses on ebay  (hope it works)

i have heard that warning before "stay away from grey hound buses" !!!
all the buses we are buying are used,bought from different companies that rode people across the country...did grey hound not look after thier buses??
what about other companies trailways,travelways etc etc ...
scottie



This guy has NO FEED BACH what so ever.. Be vary carful.. I wouldnt give this guy the time of day.. He probably has no feed back because he had so many BAD Feedbacks under a previous name , he had to start a NEW account..
Avoid like the Plague.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paul...
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2007, 03:33:59 PM »

not near enough info to even bothering to go look at them in my eyes.

someone who is selling a bus (let alone 4) that does not have the where with all to air up the bus, take and post multiple photos, put any info whatsoever that would be deemed valuable, can't be bothered to Park the wiers or have them properly adjusted ( it's only a couple nuts and locknuts for god's sake)

Heck he isn't even bright enough to put MCi and the models in the desription let alone in the title.

Run Run Away
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scottie
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2007, 04:48:32 AM »

the reason i was going to go look at them was that they were pretty close.
i have only looked at one so far,and i figured even if i wasnt going to buy them ,i could just check them out and might learn something at the same time.....good excuse for a bike ride........
scottie
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Tom Y
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2007, 06:10:39 AM »

Scottie, Never hurts to look. Best leave your wallet at home so you won't be tempeted. Theres a lot of buses out there, look around and ask around. There are a lot with conversions started and may save you some money. Good luck  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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