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Author Topic: Trip to Crawfords/Jake installation  (Read 3893 times)
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« on: July 31, 2007, 09:46:17 AM »

Hi Guy's,

Heading to Keith Crawfords today so he can install my Jakes that I had refurbished.

So far I have spent $650 for used Jakes, $520 to have them reman, $240 for a fast idle buffer switch.

The used Jakes came with the Hi/Low switch, so that is covered..

I'll keep you informed on the progress.

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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2007, 10:41:42 AM »

Sounds great Nick!  Let us know how they work.  Have a good time.
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2007, 08:13:44 PM »

Hi Brian,

I'm here at Keith's in Mifflin P.A. and I should be able to really test the Jakes when they are installed because

the mountains around here are steeeep.....  I guess thats why they have a good rep for jake installs!

Thank god for OTR air. Drove all day facing west and it was 93 deg and very humid. I really felt the heat while climbing a couple steep hills and I

turned off the air to help keep the 8-92 cool. On the way down I just flip the switch and cool within 2 mins.. Gotta love that!

Nick-
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 07:26:28 PM »

Another hot day today...

Keith installed all the seloniods, drones, fuel pipes, buffer switch, and I did the dash wireing, hi/low switch, and made up a wire harness for the rear hook up.

Tomorrow, Keith will set the clearences, and test... I have to run to DD dealer for a exhaust pipe to the turbo.

Hopeing to get out of here tomorrow.... my guy's back at my shop are swamped.

Nick-
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 07:33:10 PM »

Sounds like a good day Nick.  Hopefully you will be out of the shop quickly tomorrow and enjoy additional braking capacity!
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 08:55:03 PM »

The Jakes are done.

Things were going really slow for a while. I had to drive over the mountain to the DD dealer. [Hour and a half each way] to pick up

the new exhaust tube that runs from the manifold to the turbo. About 5:00 pm we fired the engine up and Keith did some adjustments

on the buffer switch to optimize it. The jakes were kicking in just fine. The hi/low switch is working good too.

Went out for a test ride and to my supprise, I felt the drag down when I released the peddle. Really cool.. But, keith didn't like the sound of

something.. He went to the bedroom to listen more out the windows. Back at the shop, keith decided to pull the valve covers and test the

selonoids. Sure enough, one selonoid on the drivers side was not engaugeing. So, I'm missing some stopping power and that means the Amish

guy's that reconditioned the jakes, missed something very important!  Bummer! I gotta get back to my busisness... It's real busy and my guy's are maxed!

So, I'm leaving for home tonight. Keith will have to send me the new selonoid and I'll have it installed back home.

Jakes are an amazing invention! I like them and I getting real comfterable with them allready.

I'll let you know how the ride home goes.

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 05:49:35 AM »

Awesome Nick!  Bummer about the solenoid, but that is the price we pay with buying used instead of new.  Glad to hear you are back on the road and able to get back to your business.  Get those guys caught up!
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2007, 07:03:55 AM »

Nick,

Glad to hear your on the road and that your almost done!
 
Minor set back though with the one solenoid.

Hey, Any Jakes is better than none at all, just ask me!

The Jakes are on my potential project list for next year.

Cliff

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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2007, 07:06:01 AM »

Nick, When it's finished and you are happy with the result, all else will fade away. Nice to hear about your progress. I need to do the same for our Eagle, hopefully before I retire in 5 years! Grin

Paul
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 07:20:31 AM »

Nick,

We worked on a jake that was not working, at a rally last weekend.  It appears that there is an electrical connection to the transmission to detect transmission lock-up.  I had not heard of that before and did not have that my 8V71.

Does you jake require a lock-up in the transmission?

Ed Roelle
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 09:29:58 AM »

Hi Guy's,

I'm back at my shop. The Jakes worked good.  What I found was that if I were decending down a grade, at 60mph,

the jakes held me at 60 all the way down. Same thing at 70, Same thing at 50, which is good even missing the 1 selonoid.  I'm Happy!

Hi Ed,
No, I have no connection between the jakes and the trans. Shuold I ?

Nick-
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 10:03:32 AM »

Nick,

I am also wondering why they made that electrical connection to the transmission.  As I understand it,  the jake will only work in lock-up.

At this point, I do not know of a benefit and do not think it necessary.

There would be a value if the jake could force and hold the transmission in lock-up and  force a lower gear/higher RPM.

Ed
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2007, 11:39:20 AM »

Hi Ed,

Maybe someone knows the bennifit/logic of the lock up?? And does it give better stopping power?

Thanks
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2007, 12:00:06 PM »

When a tranny is in lockup is the only reasonable time to use a Jake, otherwise it just stalls out the torque converter without slowing the coach. The only time this is usually a problem is on very steep, very slow descents, since most of the time a tranny is in lockup above 25mph or so. By waiting until lockup in 2nd, I can pull my selector into 1st and enable 1st lockup and Jakes (when needed) to practically hold the coach on any grade at super-slow speeds (like windy canyons, driveway approaches, etc.) without using service brakes. Takes a bit of practice and observation... but worth it. TomC taught me how to do this in his posts here on MAK.

HTH,
Brian B.
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 04:00:06 PM »

I agree on the OTR A/C too I left on tues and went to Lewiston ID with very hot teps and facing into the sun and found that mine was working fine. . I had the drivers on too and thought my leg would get frostbite haha. . wish I had those jake barakes as the grades were also steep and long on the way to the snake river Jerry
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2007, 04:07:16 PM »

Thanks Brian,

Tom will have to explain to me how to accomplish that on my ht740.

Sounds like it the way to go..

Nick-
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2007, 06:40:50 PM »

Just in case you have problems getting Tom's way to work on your HT740, as was my case, you can use my method:

http://home.earthlink.net/~diehls0792/HT754TorqueConverterLockup.html

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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2007, 07:00:32 PM »

Hi Brian,

Wow, I had read your post back when you did that and it slipped my memory...

Do you have any diagrams? the pics are good but, something in the line of where the ports are located and how you wired it.

Thanks in advance!
Nick-
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2007, 09:37:34 PM »

Will that work on a V730? I would like to see a diagram also.

Thanks,

Laryn
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« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2007, 07:32:52 AM »

Hi Brian,

Wow, I had read your post back when you did that and it slipped my memory...

Do you have any diagrams? the pics are good but, something in the line of where the ports are located and how you wired it.

Thanks in advance!
Nick-

Hey Nick and Laryn,
I have a diagram, but when I went to install on my tranny I found out the diagram was wrong except for what it listed the high pressure port to be.  So, I'd be happy to scan and send if your serious about wanting to do this, but just know it may not list the ports correctly on your HT740 either.

The electrical is easy.  You just need an electric over hydraulic solenoid.  I found mine off and Allison on E-Bay.  Since I don't need mine any more I'd be willing to part with mine.  It is 12v, so you need to be able to switch 12v on and off at the dash and give it to the solenoid in the back.  The other item you need is some 1/8" copper line and a flaring tool.  Easy!

Laryn, I would assume the same test ports are available on the 730.  If they are, then you can certainly do the same thing.
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2007, 09:38:31 AM »

Not so much with the 2 stroke Detroits, since they loose most of their oil pressure at idle making the Jakes inoperative, but on 4 stokers, many maintain oil pressure even at idle sufficient to stall the engine.  On my truck I had a Cat 3406 that the previous owner did not install a idle buffer switch.  If you weren't careful, and forgot to turn it off, it would start coughing and bumping at idle trying to stall out.  I lost my stop solenoid once and to stop the engine I would just rev it up a bit then hit the Jake and it would stall out that way.

As to the 1st gear lockup trick with the V730, I'm not sure it works with the HT-I've never driven one to experiment.  But I would think it would since they are in the same transmission family (actual transmission of the V730 is a HT740 without 1st).  Good Luck, TomC
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2007, 12:11:16 PM »

Hi Brian,

Wow, I had read your post back when you did that and it slipped my memory...

Do you have any diagrams? the pics are good but, something in the line of where the ports are located and how you wired it.

Thanks in advance!
Nick-

Hey Nick and Laryn,
I have a diagram, but when I went to install on my tranny I found out the diagram was wrong except for what it listed the high pressure port to be.  So, I'd be happy to scan and send if your serious about wanting to do this, but just know it may not list the ports correctly on your HT740 either.

The electrical is easy.  You just need an electric over hydraulic solenoid.  I found mine off and Allison on E-Bay.  Since I don't need mine any more I'd be willing to part with mine.  It is 12v, so you need to be able to switch 12v on and off at the dash and give it to the solenoid in the back.  The other item you need is some 1/8" copper line and a flaring tool.  Easy!

Laryn, I would assume the same test ports are available on the 730.  If they are, then you can certainly do the same thing.

Hi Brian,

Yes, I'll take your selonoid.. Just PM me with an adress and an amount to send you.
Thanks
Nick-
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« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2007, 05:14:35 PM »

Hi Guy's,  Update..

I'm back at Crawford Coach and today we replaced two jake selonoids on the right side. What a difference! Where we thought

 1 selonoid was bad, here both on the right side were not working at all..

On a test ride on some steep contry roads up here, from 50 mph and decending, the jakes slowed me down to 20 mph

where they cut out. Mission Complete!   Tomorrow, The new Radiators go in...

Nick-
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2007, 05:18:35 PM »

Hi Guy's,  Update..

I'm back at Crawford Coach and today we replaced two jake selonoids on the right side. What a difference! Where we thought

 1 selonoid was bad, here both on the right side were not working at all..

On a test ride on some steep contry roads up here, from 50 mph and decending, the jakes slowed me down to 20 mph

where they cut out. Mission Complete!   Tomorrow, The new Radiators go in...

Nick-

And I keep hearing guys preach that Jakes do not work on two strokes!!!

Richard
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2007, 11:27:19 PM »

Brian,

Thank you for the lock-up data.

John
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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2007, 11:50:15 PM »


And I keep hearing guys preach that Jakes do not work on two strokes!!!

Richard



It becomes obvious to me very quickly those who have NO "REAL WORLD" EXPERIENCE with a Jake Brake.  If they did, they wouldn't prattle on about how "they won't work on a two-stroke".

Those who have BUS experience and say Jakes don't work either (A) had a vehicle with a tired engine and/or (B) the Jakes were either not adjusted properly, or some other mechanical malfunction.  18-wheelers at 80K lbs cannot be compared to buses loaded to (generally) less than half that weight - simple eighth-grade physical science classes can figure that out.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2007, 06:31:21 AM »

Russ brings up a good point about adjustment.

Nick, do you know what valve clearance was used and was it set with hot or cold engine?

Although the book stated that the valves on mine should be adjusted at .059 clearance, I found that .055 clearance made a world of difference.

Richard
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2007, 09:11:07 AM »

Richard,
  Was the .055 setting hot or cold?  Jack
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2007, 09:24:52 AM »

Richard,
  Was the .055 setting hot or cold?  Jack

I do not remembeer for sure. It would have been whatever Jake recommended for the .059 setting, but I no longer have the Jake manual.
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2007, 06:42:54 PM »

Hi Richard,

I'm set at .059 cold.

Rads are in and I will be leaving here in the am.

Hope this helps
nick-
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« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2007, 07:05:29 PM »

Hi Richard,

I'm set at .059 cold.

Rads are in and I will be leaving here in the am.

Hope this helps
nick-

If you get a chance, do a test. While the engine is still somewhat cool, try the Jakes and see how they operate. Then after the engine is up to temperature do the same test on a similar grade if possible.

I found that the cold test that the Jakes worked significantly better than after the engine was up to temperature.

Based on that I changed the clearance to .055 and realized significantly better Jake action after the engine came up to temperature.

Richard

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