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Author Topic: Rusty Bumper Mounts  (Read 3244 times)
DavidInWilmNC
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1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




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« on: August 20, 2007, 11:26:33 AM »

I removed the rear bumper yesterday to make it a bit easier to replace the lowest coolant hoses on my MC-8.  After I got them off, I noticed how rusty the mount areas are - so much for bolting a hitch to this area.  This doesn't look like a terribly difficult repair.  Here are my thoughts:

1)  Plate over the sections after removing as much rust as possible.  I could grind down the original weld and attach the plate to the stainless like the originals.  The problem I see is that water would continue to get between the pieces after welding burned of any paint I might apply.

2)  Cut out the rusty sections entirely and weld a piece of plate steel in its place.  I would weld a diagonal of square 1-1/4" square tube along the top to reinforce it.  This would likely be stronger than what was there originally.  Again, how does one keep moisture out of square tube in a situation where there might be a part that's not sealed off by welding?  I'd considered filling the diagonal tube with Great Stuff through a small hole once the welding was finished.

How have others repaired similar damage on their buses?  Alternately, how would others go about repairing damage like this on their buses?  Thanks for any input or suggestons.

David

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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 11:45:02 AM »

Man, That Ain't Rosty, You should look at an Eagle!


LOL, Couldn't resist
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 11:55:34 AM »

Man, That Ain't Rosty, You should look at an Eagle!


LOL, Couldn't resist

And that's why I bought an MCI!   Wink 
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luvrbus
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 12:09:29 PM »

Wait till you get to the front
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 01:15:58 PM »

Wait till you get to the front

Wow guys, what helpful suggestions!  Wink  The front has a bit of rust in the trusses (for lack of a better description) on each side of the spare tire.  I'm not as concerned with that, as it still seems structurally sound.  I know there is some rust behind the stainless, but it's not too bad.  It's not like whole pieces are missing.  For now, though, I'm going to concentrate on the rear bumpers.  I called a metal supplier and can get a 4' X 8' sheet of steel plate for $122 (3/16") or $150 (1/4"); is this reasonable?  I think the 3/16" will work, as this is certainly thicker than what was there originally.  They have a 'remnant' section that I can plunder through as well for cheap scrap.

David
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gus
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 05:01:12 PM »

David,

Go through the scrap pile! A 4x8" sheet is VERY heavy and from the photos it appears you don't need a large amount.

It is also hard to cut unless you have a plasma cutter.  An Acetylene cutting torch makes too much of a mess and a saw takes forever so have them cut it to size for you, you won't be sorry.
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PD4107-152
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 05:42:32 PM »

David,

Go through the scrap pile! A 4x8" sheet is VERY heavy and from the photos it appears you don't need a large amount.

It is also hard to cut unless you have a plasma cutter.  An Acetylene cutting torch makes too much of a mess and a saw takes forever so have them cut it to size for you, you won't be sorry.

Gus,

Yeah, it is heavy; I believe he said 270lbs.  They charge $40 or $50 as a minimum price, so it won't be much in the way of savings to have them cut it.  I've got a good friend down the street who'll let me use his plasma cutter anytime.  It's got to be one of the best time savers ever.  I'm going to check and see what they have for scrap.  I'll need some for the front (in the spare tire bay), to mount the passenger seats, to fabricate the hitch, and those rear bumper mounts.  I may be able to store it at a friends shop.  I guess it'll all depend on what's available in their scrap section.

David
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Dallas
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 06:41:22 PM »

David,
Just go to your friendly, local scrap metal recycler... he'll sell you metal at scrap prices. he'll even load it for you.

You take it home and cut it to your hearts content.
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maria-n-skip
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007, 08:00:05 PM »


 David,

   I would like to thank you for your post and picture. I went and checked my bus this evening.
 Guess what I saw the start of some rust like your picture shows. I have missed that in the past.
 Luckily I have found it while it is still surface.

 Thanks

   Skip
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compedgemarine
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 08:42:06 PM »

if you can find someone in your area that does water jet cutting they can make the piece to within a couple of thousanths of the template drawing you give them. we do this all the time and the people we deal with make so much stuff that they buy cheaper than you and I and can sometimes incorporate your parts into a big sheet of whatever they may be cutting for someone else so they can use the whole sheet. our guys can cut up to 6" thick plate steel and usually do it for a pretty good price especially when you add in your own time to try and cut an fit plate steel.
steve
1981 Eagle--so yes I cut and weld alot
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kyle4501
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 05:10:49 AM »

David,
I work in a manufacturing plant & the 4' x 8' sheets are way too heavy for 1 or even 2 people to handle without a lift. I've found that the 'drops' are much easier to handle, cheaper, & usually I can use 2 edges on the piece & save cutting. So Dallas is right about where to shop.  Grin
We use hole saws, drills, & jig saws to cut metal. The jig saw is slow, but sometimes faster than taking it down the street.  Wink  (get good blades tho)

Cut off wheels in a grinder work well too.

I wouldn't trade my port-a-band for nuthin!  Grin

There is a shop next door that has a laser cutter that can cut 3/4" steel & 1/2" stainless, the tolerance is a few thousandths. Great for those intricate things & the price is better if you can provide a good autoCAD drawing. Cool
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2007, 05:33:57 AM »

Yeah, yeah pick on the poor eagles lol, at least we get our plates cheaper each year cause our plates here in michigan are bases on weight lol.
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Sojourner
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2007, 05:34:51 AM »

Thanks for your photos support.
Mine was that bad & filled with salt & sand from Michigan.

If you can find a metal fabricators shop (look in yellow page), they have cut-off scrap pieces of all common shape of metal. Stainless Steel  scrap can be had  at .10+ cent on a dollar. Which I did. Look for gauge 11 or thicker for either mild steel or SS. Have it sheared to size. Hole saw the large hole using very slow rpm drill press using old used diesel engine oil for cutting. Also use square tubing for diagonal in between plates.

Secret of hole saw cutting is never over heat the teethes. Cutting oil help but still cutting at very slow speed and relieve it every 5 rpm or so to knock-off shaving from teeth while turning using a small 6” long rod to tapping it till ringing then add squirt of oil to avoid cutting dry in metal. SS will require slower rpm than mild steel. If you see metal shaving coming out dry & colored darker than cold metal…..you are turning too fast even with cutting oil. Good cutting oil is better yet such as “Tap-Magic” for steel & SS. They have difference one for cutting aluminum. This what we use at General Motor Engineering Staff. I am sure others may be better but had no problem at GM ES.

You also needs several pieces of mild steel spacers for each pr of bolt’s holes that go in between both plates. Spacer is lathe cut to proper length so that when draw the bolt to tighten, it will avoid collapsing and stay torque at all time. Spacer is either ¾” OD larger diameter hollow rod or solid rod or shaft. Have solid ones either lathe drilled or try straight drill with drill press vice.

Here a link to metal gauge to inches conversion:
http://www.onlineconversion.com/forum/forum_1021325560.htm

Here a link to metal hole saw cutting speed chart to save you $$$ plus time wasted:
http://www.vermontamerican.com/NR/rdonlyres/F1D82584-27AA-449C-90B6-39FAA20F1FB6/0/VAKC_HoleSawCuttingSpd.PDF

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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steamguy56
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2007, 08:05:30 AM »

If you do your shoppping at local junkyard, don't be surprised at the cost of the stainless. At one point of this summer I was paying 1.50 per pound, it has started to come down alittle now.
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 08:35:31 AM »


 David,

   I would like to thank you for your post and picture. I went and checked my bus this evening.
 Guess what I saw the start of some rust like your picture shows. I have missed that in the past.
 Luckily I have found it while it is still surface.

 Thanks

   Skip

It's great that one persons's 'problems' are able to benefit another.  I've learned so much from these forums that it's amazing.  I wouldn't / couldn't have gotten as far as I have without all the help I've received.

David
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mikelutestanski
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2007, 08:48:54 AM »

I replaced that piece with a piece of .5 plate on both sides and added another  .250 to the hitch I built. THe hitch had to undergo several modifications to get it right . Tell me where to send pix and I can send them.   Mike in florida   mCI 7
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
maria-n-skip
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2007, 08:51:36 AM »

Mike,

   How about right here.......So we can all benefit. Just a thought

 Skip
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2007, 09:15:34 AM »

Yea, we all want to see.
Richard

Mike,

   How about right here.......So we can all benefit. Just a thought

 Skip
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JackConrad
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2007, 12:31:06 PM »

Mike,
   If you have trouble posting the photos, email them to me and I post them for you.  Jack
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JackConrad
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2007, 12:44:32 PM »

Here is a photo of the back of Sojourner's bus frame. He modified the frame but this part is almost the same as OEM. The plate appears to be about 3/32 or 1/8. The diagonal is 1 1/2 square tubing. there is plate on each side of the diagonal.  As a general rule, I try to always use stainless steel if working below the interior bus floor. 
For some reacon, the BB is saying my file is too large, but is smaller than anything I have previously posted??? Jack
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Dallas
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2007, 02:28:52 PM »

Here is a photo of the back of Sojourner's bus frame. He modified the frame but this part is almost the same as OEM. The plate appears to be about 3/32 or 1/8. The diagonal is 1 1/2 square tubing. there is plate on each side of the diagonal.  As a general rule, I try to always use stainless steel if working below the interior bus floor. 
For some reacon, the BB is saying my file is too large, but is smaller than anything I have previously posted??? Jack

Jack...
Send it to me, I'll beat it into submission and get it posted for you.
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DavidInWilmNC
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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2007, 06:38:16 AM »

Here is a photo of the back of Sojourner's bus frame. He modified the frame but this part is almost the same as OEM. The plate appears to be about 3/32 or 1/8. The diagonal is 1 1/2 square tubing. there is plate on each side of the diagonal.  As a general rule, I try to always use stainless steel if working below the interior bus floor. 
For some reacon, the BB is saying my file is too large, but is smaller than anything I have previously posted??? Jack

Jack...
Send it to me, I'll beat it into submission and get it posted for you.

Are the pics postable yet? 

David
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Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2007, 06:52:26 AM »

Here is a photo of the back of Sojourner's bus frame. He modified the frame but this part is almost the same as OEM. The plate appears to be about 3/32 or 1/8. The diagonal is 1 1/2 square tubing. there is plate on each side of the diagonal.  As a general rule, I try to always use stainless steel if working below the interior bus floor. 
For some reacon, the BB is saying my file is too large, but is smaller than anything I have previously posted??? Jack

Jack...
Send it to me, I'll beat it into submission and get it posted for you.

Are the pics postable yet? 

David

Nope, I guess not.
DF
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maria-n-skip
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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2007, 07:05:36 AM »


 Dallas,

  Just because things like this are an interest to me. Could you e-mail
 me the pictures I'd like to look at them on why they are so different.


  My emails in my profile

Skip
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Tom Y
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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2007, 09:43:25 AM »

David, Heres a pic of mine. It was not rotted out, but I built new longer engine rails and welded on. Half inch thick steel is over kill but it won't rust out. Mine is an 80 5C, not sure if it is stainless but will look if it will help.  Tom Y 
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Tom Yaegle
Dallas
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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2007, 10:43:54 AM »

I haven't gotten any pictures in my email yet, but as soon as I do I'll resize and post them.

Mike...
You can send the photo's to me at my email address in my profile. Just click on the envelope over on the left underneath my name.
<--------------- <-------------- <--------------- <----------------
Dallas
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Dallas
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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2007, 04:15:09 PM »

OK,
Here's a picture that Jack sent me:

 "Anyhow this is a photo of the rear frame after repair on Sojourner's bus.  The lower and diagonal framing members are 1 1/2" square tubing.  The plates are 1/8" or 3/32" thick.  All material is stainless steel and was welded with a mig welder using stainless wire.  Jack"
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mikelutestanski
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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2007, 07:10:45 PM »

hello      here is a picture of the hitch with the plates behind it. The original plates were almost gone and I decided to replace them and add the hitch. THe hitch works because of the green angle welded to the side. That is required for this design more to come  mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2007, 07:13:33 PM »

Hello  THis is the right side showing the .5 plate and the .25 plate that is part of the hitch mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2007, 07:19:42 PM »

Hello   THis pix shows the hitch removed and the plates that replaced the original stuff. WHere steel met stainless I welded with stainless rod. THis hitch is not the final design because it was modified to add plates to each side. mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2007, 07:23:36 PM »

Hello this shows the guts of the hitch which is being modified to add plates for ease of installation.  no cutting to get it off the bus for engine removal.   Mike
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 07:25:17 PM by mikelutestanski » Logged

Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
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« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2007, 07:39:10 PM »

This is essentially the same as the previous but the other side. The T bar extending back actually keeps the hitch from bending downward. The guide bars are bolted on the bottom with two bolts going up. They were an earlier addition but will not keep the hitch from bending. The T bar does that well I would or should have made the receivert shorter and next time I will shorten it. THe longer receiver can get stuck in the road if the hill is steep enough . That is another story .  mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2007, 08:10:50 PM »

I think this hitch stuff is off the original topic but in my case I used another .25 plate that bolts up to the new .5 plate for the hitch figuring that the plates would keep the hitch straight.  not true....
      I thought  the hitch  would work with the .25 plate and the tube across the bottom but it did not. I had to add the angle on the inside to get it home and later the T bar and the 10 by 12 plates were added and bolted on both sides to make it easy to take out.  The T bar in the back runs under the receiver and keeps it rigid.
    I probably can explain this better by chatting if anyone is interested . 
      The next hitch I make will be incorporated into the bottom of the front mount for the L10. It will not stick out as far.   If these pictures are in the wrong spot please move them. Happy bussing    mike
 
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
maria-n-skip
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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2007, 09:06:10 PM »

Mike,

 I think that was a great series of pics with explanations.

   I learned alot.

  If your segment gets moved hopefully it will be in a place easy to find

 Thanks
 Skip
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2007, 09:50:52 PM »

OK,
Here's a picture that Jack sent me:

 "Anyhow this is a photo of the rear frame after repair on Sojourner's bus.  The lower and diagonal framing members are 1 1/2" square tubing.  The plates are 1/8" or 3/32" thick.  All material is stainless steel and was welded with a mig welder using stainless wire.  Jack"

Where is the bus? Are you sure it wasn't an Eagle? Looks as though it may have rusted completely away! All I see is some frame and a lot of GRASS! LOL!
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Sojourner
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2007, 10:14:45 PM »

Thanks Jack & Dallas for post this photo of my one of my Sojourner projects. Jack took this picture while it at his place....I am 516 mile away at new home in SC. He did a favor (took photo) for me to further explain what I already done a few years ago….yes..it getting rusty…need to get it finish the rest of the project. In a few months (the Lord willing) it going to be move to Elloree, SC when I get it road ready to finish it.

FWIW here my version of repairing the rusted bumper support.
As mention in my earlier post # 13, I use scrap piece of 11 ga. SS. from a fabricator shop. Have it sheared to size. Hole saw the large hole using very slow rpm drill press using old used diesel engine oil for cutting. Also use square tubing for diagonal in between plates.
However the diagonal square tubing on my Sojourner is continue beyond the vertical frame to connect to new “belt-line” main frame. So in this photo it doesn’t show the rest of diagonal square tubing. But for a normal MCI version…a diagonal piece can be a narrow plate instead of square tubing.

About the hitch mounting….I cut a ½” thick mild steel plate to fit within the top engine chassis rail to bottom diagonal tube frame. Do the same for other side. Cut another identical ½” thick piece to weld on end of 10K pound production version hitch. The original truck production hitch was too long (or wide) to fit so I cut both ends to weld the “identical” plate with matching 4 holes drilled to fit onto ½”  threaded holes. The rest of the hitch is already equips with the tongue that is perpendicular & added web plate to center of heavy main square production’s tubing. No needs of more reinforcement added because the production version is build to 10K spec and mounting same as high-end motor coach.

I brought a 10K hitch similar to this link:
http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=s-4351&bool=AND&category=b_product&maxhits=1&keywords=dt2617&GO=GO%21

As you see it extra wide or long but cut to fit in between. Discard the end pieces. After the above quote of the modified work done….use class 8 bolts to mount. It can be remove to slide out the engine for major servicing.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 10:20:13 PM by Sojourner » Logged
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