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Author Topic: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista  (Read 5920 times)
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2007, 07:13:49 PM »

Well, when Larry "blew up" his laptop, he scarfed my little bitty one and suggested I should buy myself a new one.  At that time, thinking I couldn't buy one without Vista, I took the jump, and to be honest, it was a real pain.  Sure, lots of programs work with it, but lots don't.  The scheduling software we use is not Vista compliant, neither is our fax program, and I waited over six months for Sony-Erricsson to come out with the drivers to run my air card on Vista.  No matter how many suggestions I've followed, how many files I've downloaded, and how much I've played with our network, we are still at the point where the Vista laptop can see and access files on the XP computers, none of the XP computers can ever access the Vista one, which makes it annoying for me to save files to it.  I have to keep it open on my desk and use it to "grab" the files, instead of just saving to it when in the process of saving updated files for various computers.

Due to our perpetual shortage of office help, I decided to move the scheduling computer into my office, and because I wanted to option of easily moving it to Margie's desk when I was gone, I wanted to purchase another laptop.  I found that there are indeed XP computers available, and I found a nice little Compaq with specs meeting my needs that had XP. . .found it at CompUSA.  Now, you'd think with three laptops sitting on my desk, I'd get more work done, wouldn't you, ha ha. 

It always was easy for me to find any file on our network, simply by using the search command and picking where I wanted to search.  I have yet to find a way, when on my Vista unit, plopped on my couch,  to search a network computer (at the office) for a file using a search command.  If it's there, I can't seem to find it, even in "help".  I also have had to use Maxemail, an internet faxing service, for faxing from this Vista, because it doesn't even have a basic fax program on it, and I can't even print from it to our fax program on another computer because there are no fax drivers for it.  Sure, I guess I could buy all new programs, but to be honest, I have a company to run and simply do NOT have the time to learn a bunch of new programs when the ones we have work so well for us. 

Oh well, eventually, we will have no choice and everything will be Vista, but it ticks me off that Microsoft will NOT offer support for any computer sold with Vista on it, and the computer manufacturer will NOT offer support for Vista, so basically, no one would talk to me to help me solve the network issue we have with accessing that computer. 

Here, let me whine some more while I try to make the point that you can find computers with XP on them, new, with full warranty, if you search, and it's worth the search, ha ha.  Christy Hicks


Hi Christy,

What software are you using for your busisness?  When I switched over to Vista, I was very lucky that my software was compatable.
I have been using bottom-line-softwarefor 9 years now, and when I started with them I was on Win 98. So far they did a good job with their updates to merge with Vista. All my functions are accessable with some new features that we couldn't do before.
http://www.bottom-line-software.com/
Nick-
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« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2007, 03:48:58 AM »

I could be wrong that has happened several times!  But, one of the reasons and or for the lack of a better word control points about Vista was the inabilitity to run "free" programs. Microsoft seems to be the leader in making sure we "buy" our software, especially theirs!  Many, many years ago in a far off galaxy, I would share the use of friends software. I'm on computer number 5, and I buy my own software and "use" internet security and anti virus, this computer has operated so smooth its scary, i have very little problems with it................which means microsoft can't make any or very little money.....................therefore I know i'm screwed......another new system how nice Roll Eyes!
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« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2007, 07:25:15 AM »


MIcrosoft has just pulled XP from any new computer, if you buy new, you must buy it with Vista. 





I wonder how that will effect new PC sales.  I'd like to have a new, faster laptop, but I'm not buying one with Vista.  I'd rather use my old laptop.  Not a problem with desktops as you can build one or have one built for XP.    I have quite a few programs that don't work quite right on Vista.
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« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2007, 03:49:38 PM »

Christy,

Whine away, I do the same thing every time I see the name MS. I also whine because I wasn't smart enough to start out with Apple in the first place. I knew better,The Win iinterface s a direct copy of Apple-not a very good one though. Any MS software that is any good at all was bought or lifted from someone else.

MS is fighting the inevitable that most software will soon be free on the net by making it difficult to use anything but MS on Win. So far they have gotten away with it except in some foreigh countries.Most
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« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2007, 05:50:14 PM »

After 25 years of experience in computer graphics and starting out on a Mac and moving to a PC, a can assure you that Windows is not even close to a copy of Apple software. True, it is a GUI but that is about the end of the similarities. And if you want to point a finger at a copycat you have to go back farther to Steve Jobs stealing Xerox ideas. Xerox was the first with a GUI, not Apple. People can complain about Microsoft all they want to but I would hate to think how far behind computers would be without them. I can run my entire graphic/multimedia business almost on software solely from Microsoft and Adobe. And I can do it cheaper and with more compatibility on a Windows PC than I could on a Mac. In the 80s, if you did graphics you had to have a Mac. If you did video, the unknown Amiga was the champ. Now PCs are doing it all... Thanks Microsoft.
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« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2007, 06:27:28 PM »

So far, I haven't found anything Vista does for the average business user. It does have a lot more overhead than XP. I am selling new machines, both desktops (I build each one to the customers specs) and laptops with XP everyday. There should be vendors who will sell you guys what you want. If whoever you are dealing with now won't, find someone else.
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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2007, 03:49:49 AM »

I too have to thank Microsoft.

For many years MS paid my bills, put food on my table, paid for fuel, bought parts for the bus... all due to the lack of quality of the product. Remember Windows "Millennium Edition"? "Win95 4.095"? "Win98 1st Edition"?

I spent many a quality hour sorting out problems that cropped up with those OS's. Especially when they came out with PnP and "soft" modems, NIK and sound cards.

Then there's the vulnerability problems. A good tech needs to be not only hardware oriented, but able to diagnose software too.

Thanks Mr. Gates!
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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2007, 06:56:11 AM »

We're using Nitek Software Business suite, which is an integrated program providing scheduling, estimating, sales and manual J calculation.  We, like you Nick, have been with this program for like 10 years, and when I purchased my laptop with Vista, it was not Vista compliant.  A few months ago, they came out with the Vista upgrades, but I've learned, like many have, to let someone else deal with the "quirks" that only show up when it's actually being used in the field on a daily basis.

I know that Apple users sing it's praises, but here's my opinion: Apple refused to license it's software to anybody and kept extremely tight control, there were practically no periperals and very little software produced and available for the end user.  Of course, when you installed anything on an Apple, it worked, but that's because they kept such tight control. . . and prices were and are higher.  Well, if you're ok with that, buy Apple.  You'll have fewer problems for sure, but then again, you'll have fewer options.  Sure, there are more flaws discovered in Microsoft software and more people trying to take advantage of them, but if Apple software were used as much as Microsoft is, do you REALLY think people wouldn't find flaws in it?Huh 

Let's face it, if you were a creepy hacker type person, would you spend a bunch of time trying to manipulate Mozilla, on the odds that you might find an occasional user, or would you do it in Explorer, because you know TONS of people are using it.  Anyway, I think Windows is an inexpensive program that is fairly easy to use (much easier than typing in the commands like we used to), and my only gripe is that a computer manufacturer won't support the products they put on their machines, and Microsoft won't support it because it's OEM on the computer. 

I should have just looked around a little more before I bought a Vista laptop, and then, I should have returned it when I realized that neither Microsoft nor Toshiba was going to help me solve the network issues.  As it is, I've got another XP one that is working great for us, and I just live with the network issues on the lone Vista.

Ok, now don't chew on me over my opinion, I never said I was a professional computer person by any means, I just observe.   I confess, I don't believe in all the conspiracy theories either.  I don't care WHAT someone does, three different people will come up with three different reasons they did it.  If a company is successful, many different people will come up with many different reasons why, from "They work hard and do a good job" to "they had unfair advantage" to "they cheat".  Me, I just go to work every day and do my thing, and one weekends, well, right now I work on the bus, ha ha.  christy HIcks
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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2007, 07:58:03 AM »

A good comparison to what Christy is saying...

Around here there is a radio commercial that sings praises to the fact that AT&T has the fewest number of dropped calls of all cell phone networks. The ad guys were very careful with wording that. AT&T may have the fewest number of dropped calls, but not the smallest average. If I have a company with 10 customers making 10 calls a day and only drop 50 out of those 100 calls, I can still say that I have fewer dropped calls than the company with 10,000 customers that only drop maybe 100 calls per day. They still have better service, but my small number makes it possible for me to say I drop fewer.

Same thing with Microsoft vs. others. Sheer numbers of customers make it looks like tons more problems, when if you look at averages it isn't. Any company has their bad products. Windows ME was the worst of the worst. Luckily there were lots of other MS options for you to choose from and they replaced ME pretty quickly in the overall scheme of things. And as someone who has also had to do tech work on many thousands of computers over my 25 year career, I can tell you that the largest percentage of problems came from the operator not knowing what they were doing but still trying to mess with settings. And I still find that true today... So yeah, I get paid because of errors as well, but the majority of them are not MS.
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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2007, 08:41:31 AM »

As I understand it, the bulk of the new security in Vista are DRM features for the music and video industry. Oh, there are some real improvements, like making user mode the default instead of admin mode (these things existed in 2000 and XP too, but were largely ignored both by users and software makers), but you have to bypass that security to install a lot of software (which demands admin mode). And downloading and installing stuff from the web is one of the primary ways machines get infected. Caveat Emptor, sadly.

I think I'll stick with Windows 2000 Pro on my own systems for a bit longer. It's not an option for people who don't already own it, but it still does the job well, is less bloated than either XP or Vista, doesn't phone home if you change your hardware, and still has a large enough userbase that Microsoft still issues security patches even though it's technically out of support.
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Songman
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« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2007, 09:41:08 AM »

No company can support a product forever. Tried to buy any Model A parts from Ford lately? Even more recently, my Pontiac Fieros are just about in the same position as the Model A.

Windows 98 was released in 1998 and supported until 2006. XP was released in 2001 and will be supported until 2014. Both cases offer support for plenty of time. I don't see how anyone can fault MS for that.

And by statistics, Windows is installed on 90% of the computers in the world. See my above post about number of problems compared to percentage of problems. How long is Microsoft support to continue supporting Windows 98 for that 1.05% of people using it? Somewhere there are probably people still using W3.1 of DOS too? I bet Apple doesn't support anything before OS10. But since they are not Microsoft, no one worries about that. 


Results of report August 26, 2007

What is hard to believe is that according to the report there are still .56% of people still using ME!
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« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2007, 01:47:04 PM »

Songman,

You picked a very poor example for support. You can buy any part you want for a Model A or even a Mustang, even enough to build a new one if you want!

Of course these parts don't come from Ford but they have Ford's permission.

MS sells junk stuff and trys to make you believe that each new Win is "More stable and faster"! Each new one I get seems to crash worse than the last.

The whole point is that Win should be easy to use for the average person, not just tech experts, since it is sold to the masses. The MS philosophy is that you should adjust to their system, not the reverse.

They produce untested garbage and they know it. The wisest thing I ever read is "Never buy a MS .0 Version of anything".
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« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2007, 03:11:59 PM »

Not a poor example at all. Someone said MS didn't support their old stuff... Neither does Ford. Aftermarket does. I get aftermarket stuff to add to my Windows system too. You're talking about aftermarket which is a poor example and has nothing to do with the point.

As I said, the problem in most cases is not that Windows messes up. It is that users mess around with stuff that the average user has no business messing with and cause their own problems and then blame MS. My mother was a perfect case in point. She would call me and ask me what something in the Windows folder was for. I told her she had no business in the Windows folder. Her computer was so screwed up that it would hardly come on. I bought her a new Dell and told her that she better not even open the Windows folder and if she did she was on her own to fix her screw-ups. Her computer has been working flawlessly for two years.

It doesn't take a tech to make Windows work at all. Apparently it takes a tech to know not to mess with stuff they know nothing about. I have 4 computers and an xBox on my wireless network in the house. Three XP and one W98. No problems ever. I am constantly told how junky Linksys routers are and that they have to be reset about once a week to keep them working. I have been on mine for over two years and the only time I reset it is when I updated my security settings.

Knowing what not to install off the internet goes a long way too. Most don't. Still the problem is not Microsoft. There are too many of us running it with no problems to blame it on them.
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« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2007, 07:58:01 PM »

I suffered a total system failure on my win 2000 pro system that has been serving me pretty well
with a few updates since 1999, I think it was a win 98 system prior to 2000 Pro.

Well, as you know if you buy new hardware and the software maker decides to end support you are screwed. This is the case with Win 2000 Pro. So new hardware is only supported now with Vista or if you are lucky XP Pro.

XP Home and Vista Home are remakes of MILLENIUM Edition... ( A full load of you know what!!! )

Vista Business ( optional ) is almost as crippled as things get. So I jumped to Vista Ultimate
for all the bells and tattletales.. Geeezzzzz.. what I have I done???

Yes Folks, I have entered FULL ON CRAZY once again.... I almost have it basically under control but have uninstalled about half the garbage already and deleted loads of crap and as I said almost.....

I managed to cobble the old system back together and get it barely running but lost all my programs and have sort of repaired the bad sectors on the hard drive, Duct taped a fan to the back of the case and got drivers and new system loaded... Maybe I can recover my graphics and files but now have to figure out what I did with all my install stuff if that will even work with vista....

So far PcAnywhere 11.5 is a no-go, They make you buy a new version and won't even think about trying to install the old one... MS-attack dog software already pissed me off today once or thrice...

Arghhhhhhhhhh...

I hope my XP laptop will hold on for a while longer. I am NOT going to update that ( EVER! ).....

Other than the aggravation factor I kinda Like Vista better, But ease of use is somewhat lacking but the wide screen display is nice....

Dave- The Insane One....
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« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2007, 09:44:27 PM »

Dave,

I jumped directly from W98 to XP because I heard so many bad things about 2000. I bought a new computer with XP just as Vista was coming out before it was too late!

It will be a long time before I go near Vista.

Songman,

Buying more stuff for old Win is not getting support, support is help that should come from MS when one has problems. MS doesn't want to help, it only wants to sell Vista.

MS is becoming so paranoid that legitimate owners are getting messages from MS security that their perfectly legitimate Vistas are not legit??

No matter how you cut it Win is garbage.

Win of all versions is so full of bugs and the list of fix downloads is so long that if you ever get behind it is dangerous to try to catch up because your computer will almost always get fouled up. Even one at a time is hazardous.
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