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Author Topic: More poor engineering: replacing water pump on a Dina  (Read 3498 times)
belfert
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« on: September 02, 2007, 12:26:35 AM »

Did Dina's engineers think the owners of a Dina were just going to throw the bus away when the water pump and other routine service items needed service or replacement?  They designed things such that everything is jammed tight into the engine compartment.

The design of the engine compartment is such that major disassembly of various bits and pieces was required just to replace the water pump.  It would have been even more difficult to replace the water pump if the radiator had not already been out.  There is a water cooler for the tranny just behind the water pump that had to come out to get the pump out.  We also ended up removing most of the intake piping from the air filter to the turbo as it was in the way of getting the top hose back onto the water pump.

In the end, it ended up taking two of us at least four hours to replace the water pump, not including the run to get a new section of silicone hose.

The water pump was definitely bad as it had been leaking small amounts of oil through the weep hole as well as small amounts of coolant.

One bonus is I did find a tranny hose rubbing the frame rail and fixed that.
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2007, 08:39:20 AM »

No Brian they didn't design it to be thrown away!  There are countless #'s of Dinas running around down in lower Texas & Mexico (also many running line runs from Mexico to Dallas, Chicago. Detroit, and many other northern mega metropolitian areas) that they run, run ,run & rerun into the ground only fixing what they have to but they still keep going! As Bobby (my buddy who owns WTMC charter co.) says of his 2 Dinas (the first 2 coaches he bought when he started his co) "they are more or less the most dependable buses I have, sure they may have a problem from time to time. But they always make it home for repairs instead of having to be done right then and there on the side of the road or wherever, and I think that is because of the rugged use they were designed for in Mexico!" Now that quote is directly from a man who owns 2 Dinas, 2 MCI Rennisances, 1 Prevost H3-45, 1 MCI C3, &1 Van Drool 2041 (in his words "biggest piece of crap I own")!
Now for any and all of you please note I am using quotes and directly quoting the words of a professional motor coach co. owner in those quotes! Those are not my words (as I had to eat my words as I tried to talk him outta buying his Dinas before he did buy them! I told him all the things I'd heard about them being junk,yada,yada,yada, etc!)

Now as far as it being almost impossible to replace the water pump on your bus Brian, Dallas and I just examined one of those Dinas very well the other day when I had it here to use (I over booked and had to borrow a bus). And I can asssure you that since you don't turn wrench's for a living you are making it out to be harder than it really is! Dallas & I agree that the radiator & water pump job could both be done together as an 8 or less hour job! And I can personally assure you that I could replace the water pump in 4 hrs or less with out removing half of the items you mention. I looked it over very well and it is no more difficult than the Setra I just did recently for another customer! As a matter of fact you have the removeable access panel in front of the radiator to make it easier that the Setra doesn't have! I admit that after turning wrenches for a living you learn tricks and ways to do thinks easier that save time and hassle, but it's also not rocket science that buses are not generally easy to work on! BK
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Utahclaimjumper
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2007, 08:59:10 AM »

Brian, if you need something to cry about start working on aircraft.>>>Dan
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Utahclaimjumper 
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2007, 09:05:19 AM »

Opps, I forgot! Brian good job on finding and fixing tranny hose!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Sammy
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 09:22:00 AM »

LOL  Cool
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belfert
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2007, 09:28:53 AM »

No doubt an experienced mechanic would probably not have needed to remove the air intake piping, and probably would have done it faster.  I don't know how any mechanic would have avoided removing the tranny cooler.  The water pump would not come out far enough to remove it with the bracket for the cooler in the way.  It had to come off.

The local Detroit dealer has a special to replace water pumps for $499, but they only build in 2 or 2.5 hours labor.  They have a disclaimer that specialized applications like motorhomes and bus could cost more.  I'm fairly certain they couldn't do it on a Dina for the special price.

I'm not real happy with the local Detroit dealer.  I actually brought the bus there to change the water pump and they said it was fine and the leak was in the radiator cap.  Well, the water pump was not fine.  It was still dripping coolant after the service work.  When I pulled the pump it had oil all over the bottom and when I returned the core the parts guy said oil leaking out the weep hole is not uncommon.  I also asked the Detroit dealer to find some oil leaks, but all they found was oil filters not tight.  (Last oil change was at another Detroit dealer!)  It was still leaking oil and I found and fixed two different leaks myself.

Sorry for getting off my original topic.
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belfert
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2007, 09:32:13 AM »

The good thing is it is done and I didn't spend $400 to $500 with a mechanic.  I am heading out to finish installing the radiator after I go to truck parts place to get a new hose to replace the one I left on the radiator. 

(Mechanics charge $90 to $105 an hour locally to work on buses.)
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TomC
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2007, 09:34:40 AM »

I guess there is something to be said about lowly transit buses.  I replaced my water pump, but first had to remove the radiator-1/2 hour.  With the radiator out the "front" of the engine is right there where I could work sitting down and do a job that I had never done.  The old pump was out and new one in with the radiator reinstalled and running in about 6 hours.  We maybe limited by our gear selection because of the V drive, but boy do I like the serviceability of everything being right there and made to be serviced.  Some of the highway buses that come in that look truly scary to work on just amaze me at the lack of engineering-just sort of throw all the stuff in there you can.  One of the worst is the MCI Ren- had to do a transmission job and the tag axle had to be removed to get the transmission out!  Now that was a real Einstein.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Dallas
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2007, 11:33:50 AM »

Photo of Brian's water pump
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Dallas
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2007, 11:36:26 AM »

Brian's Radiator
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tekebird
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2007, 11:45:42 AM »

yep most new vehicles do not have the home mechanic in mind when designed.

in fact most car dealers now make more from the service end than the sales end....so they don't care it boosts thier hourly totals.

the GM Coach was likely one of the easiest to work on, practically exerything accessable on the outside No crawling into holes  no need for a pit really

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belfert
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2007, 01:40:26 PM »

Brian's Radiator

Now folks can see why the radiator was so hard to get out.  The fan and all of that framework you see had to be removed.  I called MCI and confirmed it came out that way.

For the water pump I also had to remove that round thing you can see the bracket for in the photo.

And no, that is not my bus in the photos.  Bryce knows folks that operate Dinas.
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Sojourner
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2007, 02:05:18 PM »

Brian...I wish my old MCI-8 was as easy to remove Dina's radiator from looking at the photo. I am sure the Eagle's folks will say the same.
I think you need to work on others brands then you will be thankful.

Sometime...slide out engine & trans onto matching rails framing with casters is easier to get into deep areas.


FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2007, 05:09:21 PM »

Quote from: Sojourner
I think you need to work on others brands then you will be thankful.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry

AMEN!

Quote from: Sojourner
Sometime...slide out engine & trans onto matching rails framing with casters is easier to get into deep areas.


FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry       

And AMEN again!

Brian as I told you when you were looking at different coaches before you bought the Dina, they are one of the best there are when it comes to access panels for working on things! I'd love to have half of the size and locations of access panels your bus has on just about any other coach I have worked on! Now with that being said I have almost no experience with GM buses! YET And there are others I have little to no experience on, some by choice and others by lack of opportunity! LOL !
Now as far as the trans cooler having to come off I can personally say it DOES NOT HAVE TOO! yes the metal coolant line to it and also the support bracket! But I just did one on a Setra that has a 60 Series and B500 with trans cooler just like yours! from start to finish which includes draining coolant into large clean lined trash can (to be reused / dealer doesn't do this they sell you more!), removing necessary hose clamps & items, removing the pump, replacing the pump using all new hoses and clamps (to avoid future issues) and filtering and re pouring the coolant into gallon jugs to pour back it to system, double check everything before firing, run engine, add coolant & check again, test drive, and do final check out, park bus, clean up work area and tools, invoice customer! JOB DONE 4 hrs!
Like Utahclaimjumper said if ya want somethin to whine about try working on something difficult! Also slide over to WI and get some cheese! FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
belfert
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2007, 08:18:04 PM »

We didn't remove the tranny cooler completely.  We just unbolted it and dropped it down out of the way. 

If I had years of mechanical experience I probably could have done it in four hours with just one person instead of two people for the same amount of time. 

Does anybody besides Napa carry those Gates Powergrip SB clamps?  There are a dozen or more Napa stores locally and between all of them they had three of the 2.5" size in stock.
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