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Author Topic: basement A/C  (Read 3928 times)
lloyd
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« on: September 04, 2007, 12:28:11 PM »

I see some guys have installed an A/C unit in the storage compartments as opposed to roof A/C, what type of unit did you use? Has anyone thought about installing an A/C heat pump combination, similar to what would be installed in a house?
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 12:53:42 PM »

I installed the Coleman 2 stage 3 ton AC system. Fit nicely and an easy install. A bit tight for the duct work.

Grant
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2007, 01:16:00 PM »

Hi Loyd,

I use Dometic basement heat pumps, mostly because I am a distributor.

On my bus, I installed 2- 15,000 but HP's "stacked" to get a true 2 1/2 tons. They are ducted to a overhead 2 1/2" x 14"

main trunk with 12 supply's. The return is taken from the bus return tunnel that runs the legenth of the bus.

It takes some extra labor to build this kind of system but, the results are a whisper quiet air system, and a smooth roofline.

here are some pics

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 01:22:51 PM »

Hi Grant, can you give us a little more details on this.  Is one enough for the coach?  How much for the unit. 
Thanks
Jack
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 01:28:44 PM »

Nick,

Are all of your outlets in the ceiling or are some in the floor too? As I already mentioned to you, I want to do a basement system that is ducted. One of the things that I have to incorporate is bunks. I assume I can just run a duct down the wall beside the bunk and have outlets there.
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 01:57:16 PM »

The other system to consider that doesn't take much in the way of basement space is the split system.  One is the Cruiseair type that has the condenser/compressor in the basement then pipes the freon up to the evaportor-usually positioned at the base of a closet with a 4 or 6" duct to the top of cabinet vent.  The other type is the Dometic/Tundra split.  One has all the A/C in one unit with two approximately 2x6" holes for the in and out of air for the condenser in the floor, then duct the air where you want.  The other, and this is my favorite, has the evaporator/compressor mounted at the base of a closet with a 4 or 6" duct to the top of cabinet vent with the condensor mounted outside with just the two freon lines in between.

Another home made way of doing it is to buy two identical window units, split them in two using the evaporator, fan and fan motor from one and the compressor, condenser, condenser fan and motor from the other.  Then have freon lines made to connect them with the compressor unit outside and the evaporator unit mounted inside with control wiring extended.  For about the cost of a roof air, you can have a split air.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 01:58:39 PM »

I just took delivery if a Coleman (rvproducts) 6536 Series D881 Dual Compressor Heat Pump (top discharge) to replace my PITA RVAC unit - they have straight cools w/side discharge if you can use them - I went to the trouble of becoming a RVP/Coast Distribution Dealer (their only distributor) - the dealer price they quoted picked up at their warehouse was greater than Flagship Marines drop ship price - If you've got some time, when I install it I'll let you know how it works - HTH
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 02:12:39 PM »

Hopefully Jerry will get in on this thread. He did a split system and it seems to be "THE" hot ticket. If you want to go this route, I know a guy who has these split type units made by Mitsubishi (top of the line) and has a screemin deal on them: 900.oo brand new. He bought out the last of this years AC's with the "old freon". (r22 I think) He's definitely reputable.

  Let me know if you would like his #.

    Chaz
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 02:22:59 PM »

Thank you everyone for this post.  I need to learn much more about basement A/C before deciding what kind of system to use on my bus.  We have all experienced the noisy roof top units and I would rather have a MUCH quieter system.  Smiley Smiley
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Jerry32
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2007, 02:28:30 PM »

I put a small ( 1 Ton ) split in myself for the front of the bus and recently had it out camping in lewiston at 104 F and it kept the front very cool and the back was not too bad iether this was a heat pump and in temps camping the other day it got down to 42 and the heat was great too Jerry
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2007, 02:49:10 PM »

I would go with Nick on this one. I relied on his help to get to this point in my install. He is the expert as seen in his bio. I can only tell you that it fit, and cranks out some seriously cold air. I am one of those that kept the OTR AC so I can get the bus cold in minutes and then support it with the basement unit. I am trying my best to keep stuff off the roof.

Good luck!

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2007, 04:04:29 PM »

Nick,

Are all of your outlets in the ceiling or are some in the floor too? As I already mentioned to you, I want to do a basement system that is ducted. One of the things that I have to incorporate is bunks. I assume I can just run a duct down the wall beside the bunk and have outlets there.

Hi Dale,

The two basement units running together equal to a hi volocity system. The outlets are "Space Pak" vents that are 2" round. and take off
from the main trunk with 2" insulated flexible hose like tubeing, then to the 2" round closeable vents.  All my 12 supplies are in my ceiling.
Needless to say, this is by far, the quietest system I have ever seen in any type RV/Bus. I normally use both together to quick cool the bus,
and the second unit is staged 2 degrees out and maintains the temp by it's self.

Grant, thanks for the compliment!
Nick-
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2007, 04:10:53 PM »

Here is a pic of one of my ceiling vents in the bedroom.

It's the far round vent "White"

Nick-
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2007, 04:20:53 PM »

Nick's last two points prove my point! Grin

Well deserved Nick, I for one am glad to have you around and willing to help us less HVAC inclined.

Grant
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Jerry Liebler
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2007, 05:15:21 PM »

LLoyd,
    You definitely should consider the SEER13+ ductless splits that are being sold for residential use.  First off a 12,000 BTU/h residential ductless split will outperform a 15,000 BTU RV product at 95 degrees outside temperature.  This is because the residential products are rated at 95 while the RV products are rated at 80.  I'm using an 18,000 BTU/h residential ductless split in the front of my bus.  It's gotten up to 103 here this summer and on that 103 degree day my bus sat in full sun with just the front AC running and the temperature reached 75 in the bus. The power used that day was less than 14 amps at 120 volts.  With the new energy efficiency laws which do not affect RV units The energy efficiency of the residential air conditioners is now close to double that of RV units, both basement and roof top. Contact me off board for other details.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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niles500
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2007, 07:29:42 PM »

Nick - I never realized those were HiV units - what's your model #'s? - maybe we should quote some costs cause that's the bottom line - Mine was $1995 plus $118 for drop shipping including T-stat and wire (I didn't need wire or T-stat - so I think - so mine was less) - does not come with/ or have available collars - so those will have to be fabricated - Coleman has cheeper package systems (these below are special order - bummer) but tech dept. said they are not rated for RV or Marine use (think of the abuse on Marine apps)


http://www.flagshipmarine.com/offroof.html

http://www.flagshipmarine.com/offroof.html

P.S. - I'd have gone HiV but this is a retrofit
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2007, 08:23:35 PM »

Hi Niles,

Yea, your coleman is 27,000 on the BTU's and 600 on the CFM. When I first installed the two Dometic/Cruisair units, I did a static preasure test and came

up with 900+ cfm's while both units are running. Thats only under 100 cfm's short compared to a comparable 2 1/2 ton HiV home system.

BTW, the Dometic basement units are made in Cruisair's Richmond VA. plant. They are the same exact design, Cruisair is mfg with aluminum and the

Dometic is mfg with galvinized steel. When I became a Cruisair Dealer 4 years ago, they trained me in the Richmond plant and the secret was revieled..LOL..

Too bad they are moving most of the Cruisair assembly to Mexico next year..

Anyway, call me tomorrow, 609-263-2296
Nick-



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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2007, 08:28:44 PM »

Nick - I may not have time tomorrow - but probably the next day - I still have to compare some insurance info with you too - thanks - niles
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2007, 09:06:15 PM »

Go to www.kingersons.com they have a Amocraire 12,000btu residential mini split with heat pump SEER 13 for $800.00.  With properly supported freon lines, should work.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2007, 09:33:06 PM »

Tomc has pointed to one of literally hundreds of ductless split heat pumps now on the market.  All of these units are subject to federal regulation and pretty well do meet their specifications at the mandatory test temperature of 95 outside.  This is in sharp contrast to RV units which are not subject to any regulation or testing!  The RVIAA has issued test conditions that include testing cooling performance at 80 degrees outside temperature.  The result is the entire RV air conditioner market is based on inflated claims.  All air conditioners loose capacity AND draw more power when the outside temperature goes up.  The capacity loss alone means a unit tested at 80 degrees will only have about 81 % of the cooling capacity at 95 degrees  Similarly the power used at 80 degrees will increase by 18-20 % in going to 95 degrees. Simply put 2 of these 12,000 BTU units will outperform ANY 2 rooftops and any 27,000 BTU basement RV units.  And they will do it on just over 1/2 the power.  It is time the RV world voted for honesty in AC specs by not buying the inflated numbers and poor performance any longer.  All bus conversions should use ductless minisplits.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120   
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2007, 01:13:53 PM »

Jerry,

The main problem I see with min-splits is that the compressor / condenser sections are so bulky.  Where did you mount yours?  Did you remove the outer 'shell' to reduce the size a bit?  I still think 2 12K BTU splits would be great.  18K is a bit much on coolish days; I'd rather have one 12K unit running almost continuously than to have one larger unit cycling regularly.  Do you have pics of your installation?  I don't have a lot of space for ceiling ducts, although I could get by with running duct along the sides above the windows.  I still like the look of a bus... without A/C units on the roof.

David
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2007, 03:06:50 PM »

David,
    I mounted my outdoor portion in what used to house the bus HVAC's condensor.  I had to trim 2" off of the width of the unit to ft this spot.  I  narrowed the unit by cutting a bit off of the bottom, top, front and back and not using what was the right side as this is where an access panel is in my bus.  This is because I chose the 18,000 BTU unit, any of the 12,000 would have fit easily.  I also have a 10,000 BTU/h standard window unit mounted through my rear cap.  If the outside temp is below 85 the rear unit keeps the whole bus cool. Above 105 outside or for faster cool down I run both.  I certainly have no regrets about choosing the 18,000 BTU/h unit.  Send me an email and I'll send a couple of pictures.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2007, 03:41:26 PM »

Jerry, How about posting the pictures so I can see also?  Thanks Tom Y
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2008, 04:38:50 PM »

me too.....I want to see.
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2008, 05:53:57 PM »

Ditto:

Photos would be great.

BTW Jerry, following our conversation, I ended up buying the new inverter-technology based 18000btu heat pump.
The physical size is such that it should not require any trimming at all to fit into the compressor bay on my mc-7.
The DC variable speed motor/compressor should prevent high start-up currents that may trip the breaker on the inverter.

I also have a 3000w regulated 115/230volt stepup transformer here to power the unit when traveling.

Now, if I could only find the time to install all this equipment!

Come to think of it, with the diesel prices so high, Papabus and I may spend more time in the yard converting than travelling.

Regards.

Mark
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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2008, 06:34:32 PM »

Ditto:

Photos would be great.

BTW Jerry, following our conversation, I ended up buying the new inverter-technology based 18000btu heat pump.


 Oh.... the new inverter-technology based heat pump?......wonder what that is.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 06:36:05 AM by chazwood » Logged

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