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Author Topic: Diesel generator  (Read 3781 times)
dwbruner
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« on: May 23, 2006, 03:32:21 PM »

I would like to install an Onan Quiet Diesel 10kw or 12.5kw genset in my '85 Eagle Model 10.  This should handle my electrical load, but I'm not sure where the best placement would be within the coach?  My first choice is the rear curb-side compartment where the original bus air compressor was located.  It may be a tight fit and I'm concerned about the Onan weight load of approx 660 lbs.  Does anyone know what the original compressor + parts weighed?  If the two are comparable then I'm not too concerned about the weight.  My second choice is the driver-side rear bay....I don't see any issues with size or weight in this location.  My house battery bank and inverter will probably be in the rear bay too.

Any feeback is appreciated.   Grin
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Darrin Bruner
1985 Eagle Model 10
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2006, 03:54:16 PM »

I have installed a 12.5 Onan Quiet Diesel on my MCI but I will leave any recommendation to others that are familiar with Eagles...

The reason for my post is that usually, the driver-side rear bay is used for holding tanks, as that is where most RV type camp-sites place there sewer lines for you to hook into. You can put your Genset or holding tanks anywhere you want, just think about the entire picture, if you haven't already.

Steve
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NCbob
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2006, 05:25:49 PM »

Recently, I had a discussion with the former Service Manager at Cummins   ........ (name  purposely witheld), an old friend of mine with whom I've done business for years.  In our discussion I made him aware that I was a "BusNut" and had bought an MC5A with a (excuse me) 12.5 Kohler diesel generator.

I say, excuse me, because I've been associated with Onan for so many years it's a case of ...shoulda, woulda, coulda..with me

As long as I own this Kohler I'll live with it's shortcomings, or whatever.

Back to my discussion with m'friend.  Most of the problems aimed at the Onan RV generators (as applied to us) and the associated complaints (and/or Warranty claims) are the installations...many having been done by inept sellers or buyers. He had a whole shop full of generators, mostly Quiet Diesels units, which were in for repair or warranty problems.  I was appalled to say the least!

They are VERY sensitive to cooling air, induction air and exhaust restrictions.  High on the list are water...not cooling fluids...rain, road and other intrusional moisture.

Generators are the forgotten machinery in our world.  If not needed, should we have inverters, they don't get run often enough to be treated like a dependable alternative source of power.  Sin ONE!

Moisture, fuel gelling, just plain abuse affect them just like ignoring the wife....you're gonna pay!   Sin two.

Thay HAVE to be run occasionally to keep the gremlins out.  The windings are insulated to keep moisture out.  The only cure for that is running them occasionally WITH a load.  It  helps create heat, to dry the moisture out of the windings and helps with the fuel problems. Clean air, clean fuel, clean lube oil and clean coolant is the combination which leads to longevity in and internal combustion engines and the same applies to generators because they also need heat to counteract the effects of moisture.  I have preached this Gospel for over 30 years to the deaf ears of the listeners and they always, (always), come back to me and ask, "Why doesn't my generator run like it used to?"

Common sense m'friends.  If you treat it like New Zealand, "Everybody knows it's down there but nobody gives a damn", that will come back and bite you in the butt!

So, while I've gone back to my 'soap box' unintentionally, my 'words of life' (to borrow a line from a popular Clint Eastwood movie)
are to insure that your generator installation is as dry as a popcorn f--t.  My 'words of death' are to ignore the advice of those of us who understand the downside of a poor installation and maintenance.

Now, here's my own personal, tongue in cheek, bit of humor.  Each generator or alternator is built with a small amount of "Captive Smoke".  It's put there by the Manufacturer to insure the longevity of his product.  Should you hook it up wrong, abuse it by applying more load than it's capable of handling or spray water or solvents upon it in the attempt to clean up your engine....you WILL possibly release that "Captive Smoke" and it will no longer function properly.  You pays your money....and you takes your chances.

That's my $0.02

NCbob
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2006, 05:39:29 PM »

Hi Bob,

I also have the Onan 12.5 diesel like El Soñador™, but also in a MCI .

You will have to layout all your plumbing and electrical to see what works for you!

You will be happy with the hush box the 12.5 is in. Very quiet!

Nick-
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TomC
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2006, 05:46:31 PM »

Because of weight distribution, I installed my 10kw Powertech in the very front of the bus next to the driver's seat like a front engine would be (transit bus).  With all my stuff on board with the wife for traveling mode, I weigh in at 10,500lb front and 20,500lb rear.  It is hard to load up the front axle without all of the human freight on board.  My suggestion is you put it in the first bay on the left side behind the front wheel.  Reasons- it is on the left side away from the right side where you sit outside; It is inside another compartment that you can insulate for noise.  The Onan Quiet generators are NOT as quiet as they should be; and as stated before, it'll get the 650lb off the right side rear overhang (where the A/C compressor was) to the front left behind the front wheels-or inbetween the front and rear wheels where that weight won't be cantelevered behind the rear axle. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Kristinsgrandpa
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2006, 06:25:03 PM »

  I agree with Tom C, and would like to add that an installation behind the rear wheels would put it under your bed, if you are going to have a rear bedroom like mine.

 Mine isn't installed yet but its going to be on the drivers side away from my lawn chair when camped, and as far away from my bed as possible, and as close to the drivers seat as possible, so I can tell its running while driving.

Ed
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2006, 06:48:11 PM »

Each generator or alternator is built with a small amount of "Captive Smoke". It's put there by the Manufacturer to insure the longevity of his product. Should you hook it up wrong, abuse it by applying more load than it's capable of handling or spray water or solvents upon it in the attempt to clean up your engine....you WILL possibly release that "Captive Smoke" and it will no longer function properly. You pays your money....and you takes your chances.
NCbob

Uh oh.  You're in trouble now Bob.  You've mentioned the secret "SMOKE" that electronics operate on.   I always knew those things were powered by smoke because I seen it with my good eye!  I've let some out too.  Let me state that the electronics that I was "working" on let smoke out...I didn't.  I don't smoke much anymore. 
How to avoid "Sin 3".... Don't let the "smoke out." BTDT!!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
My dos centavos!  JR
  sorry...couldn't resist!
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2006, 07:06:18 PM »

Carrier AC compressor weighs about 200 lbs.   You'll likely end up with the Quiet Box in a bay.  It's going to interfere mightily with engine access if crammed into the RH rear corner.  And it will be adjacent to your sitting side (RH side of coach).  General rule is to let your neighbors enjoy the generator.  May get into some funky airflow issues if mounted in the engine compartment.   Spare tire compartment may work if you don't plan to carry a spare...or any LH bay would be good.  Too big to install in condensor compartment (on an MCI...not certain about an Eagle?). The weight won't have any effect on the bus chassis.  It can easily level 650 lbs bias side to side.  Install your freshwater tank on the RH side and the weight of the gen will be ballasted by the water tank.  That amount of weight located in any bay is just not an issue.   However, best bet would generally be to plan heavy items to balance, more or less.   Unless your water tanks are mounted midship, no amount of planning will balance them.  Mine are not and still don't creat a problem even when both holding tanks, which are biased to the LH side, are about full.   
If you plan to lose the coach AC (a rational idea in my opinion), the condensor weighs about 175 lbs...deduct that from whichever side it's mounted.  Compressor and all AC components weigh a little more than your genset.   
Good luck on your genset placement!  JR
 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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Ayn Rand
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2006, 07:10:48 PM »

I would like to install an Onan Quiet Diesel 10kw or 12.5kw genset in my '85 Eagle Model 10.  This should handle my electrical load, but I'm not sure where the best placement would be within the coach?  My first choice is the rear curb-side compartment where the original bus air compressor was located.  It may be a tight fit and I'm concerned about the Onan weight load of approx 660 lbs.  Does anyone know what the original compressor + parts weighed?  If the two are comparable then I'm not too concerned about the weight.  My second choice is the driver-side rear bay....I don't see any issues with size or weight in this location.  My house battery bank and inverter will probably be in the rear bay too.

Any feeback is appreciated.   Grin

That is exactly where my 10kw Wrico was installed. Never seemed to be a problem that I could tell.
Richard
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2006, 07:13:48 PM »

I Installed my 10KW Onan Quiet Diesel generator in my Eagle in the left side forward bay. I chose this location for weight distribution. You can see pictures of the installation here: http://members6.clubphoto.com/tim393476/644355/guest.phtml
If I were to do this again I would have mounted it higher in the bay allowing room under it to duct intake and exhaust cooling air to further reduce noise.

hth, Tq
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Torquester
1974 Silver Eagle, 3406 Caterpillar, South Dakota
TomC
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2006, 07:44:27 AM »

As Torquester says, the majority of noise the "Quiet Diesel" makes comes from underneath from the intake and exhausting of the cooling air.  If you could eliminate that noise, then it would truly be a "Quiet Diesel" for your neighbors and when you're sitting outside with the gen running.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
dwbruner
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2006, 09:34:11 AM »

Wow!  This is great information.  My gut feeling was that the rear curb-side location was not the best even if it would fit.  So now I need to decide which bay works the best with my floor plan and bay configuration.....will it be door #1, #2 or #3?  Undecided

Thanks for the feedback!
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Darrin Bruner
1985 Eagle Model 10
El-Sonador
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2006, 10:01:47 AM »

For me... I noticed that everything else was hinged on where I was to place the Shitter... sorry, the Head. as it dictated where my holding tanks would have to go and it automatically configured what space was left over for the aft state room on one side and the forward sections of the coach on the other...

I know this advice seems to be odd in that I am recommending to you that you begin the project with your head in the toilet, but it does have some merit.


Good luck  Grin

Steve
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NJT5047
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2006, 10:04:44 AM »

The big question: where is the head (pottie) located.  Don't get the generator beneath that area in such a fashion that it interferes with the plumbing for the pottie.  Unless you use a macerating head, the black holding tank should be proximal to the head with as little lateral flow as possible.  Standard RV heads may cause backups when used with more than a foot or two of lateral flow.  Straight drop is ideal.
An MCI would use front or center bay for genset...an Eagle may have room for genset and holding tanks all in one bay.   Depends on the size of your holding tanks.
Cheers, JR

 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2006, 10:36:35 AM »

Guy's,

My 12.5 Onan QD is quieter than the next door neighbor's window A/C in his bedroom!

Mabe your muffler is rotted??  I know I have to open a window in my coach to here the gen when I start it up.

Or mabe it's just mine thats silent?  Hummmm?

Nick-
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