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Author Topic: Are defroster fan motors able to be lubed on 4104?  (Read 2657 times)
John Z
1959 GM PD-4104 4139 Northern Minnesota
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2007, 10:34:16 AM »

Ned, the upper part with the vent flap in it stays put. But eveything below that slid out. Unhook the water hoses, and you may as well slide the core out to get it out of the way. Then you should be able to slide the remaining housing out, fan motors and all. Once i got it part way out, i had to undo a couple wires in order to remove it all the way. Hope it works for you!

John Z
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 10:53:24 AM »

When you put the blower wheel back on the motor shaft use a small amount of antiseeze  on the shaft and hub of the blower wheel and set screw so you can remove it the next time. Grin
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2007, 03:12:04 PM »

John,

We 4104 owners owe you for solving this problem, now we don't have to wrestle with it like you did if we ever want to remove ours!

My thinking on the valve location is to make it easy to reach while underway, I think it maybe needs to go even higher than the original to make it easy. I haven't done a lot of research on this except in my mind but mounting the valve so the handle can be reached and routing the hoses will not be a cakewalk. Maybe you can solve that one for us too, you're a great guy!!

I have four ball valves already but I'm going to try to find one with a mounting flange, that would make it real easy.
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John Z
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2007, 09:09:51 AM »

Gus, thank you! I have noticed there are flanges on the bottom of the housing, so on other buses it looks like it could be screwed to the floor, mine was not.

Just a follow up on my fans. Dropped them off on Monday at an auto electric shop which i have always trusted for the last 30 years. Basically they let the motors sit there for 2 1/2 days because they could not get the cages loosed. I picked them up and brought to an electric motor repair shop, another place that looks like they know what they are doing. Again, they cannot get the cages off!!! And they didn not bother to let me know this until i called them today... grrrrrr, like they couldn't take 2 minutes to call me and tell me this.

So not sure what to do now, as i was going to use the bus this weekend for a short haul camping trip.
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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2007, 12:23:49 PM »

Lube’um and use ‘um.
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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2007, 05:48:43 PM »

 i had the same problem with my 4106 the bearings we loud and very annoying i disasembled them to replace the bearings. they had sealed ball bearings on both ends the brushes also needed to be replaced. i got the bearings at a local bearing distributor and the brushes at a starter repair shop. well after about 2weeks of getting parts and trying to fight with the balls of rust. i tried to get new ones no luck  or they wanted $180 each the problem is the originals have a obsolete stud spread were they mount. but i found a cure i ordered 2 motors from ryder fleet products. i will even provide the part number. blower number 3602 about $38.00 a piece. you just have to redrill the plate were they mount easy. also dont use the factory relay for the 2 speed you just need the 2 wires from the toggle direct to the motors. if you what to replace the blower hose its 2 3/4 inch available from carquest auto parts. hope this helps george!
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John Z
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2007, 08:36:15 PM »

George, sounds great! I managed to free mine up a bit and pretty much have it put back together for our weekend camping trip. I am going to check out those units you mention. That is the solution to be sure. But i don't understand how you can get by without the relay? I am electricly challanged, and i need black and white directions. I can follow those. Thanks for the tip.
John Z
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2007, 05:11:18 AM »

just take the relay out of the circut the blowers are 2 speed. the wires will go from the toggle switch directly to the blower motors. so you have one wire for low and one wire for the high speed from the toggle switch.
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John Z
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2007, 06:24:15 AM »

I am sorry, but i still don't understand this. I thought the relay was cutting down the voltage to run the motors at a slower speed on low. If i remove the relay, what is the difference between the wires coming from the low speed switch and the high speed switch? Aren't they both going to be 12v? What will regulate the blower speed? See, i told ya i was lectricly challanged!!!

I looked at the Ryder motors. The one i saw had no mounting flange or squirrel cage on it. What i am going to need are the cages, since no one has had any luck in getting them to budge.

I have read about sticking a welding rod to the flange in 2 or 3 spots to heat it up fast. It was reported that would break about anything loose. Has anyone tried this? Did it work well? Getting desparate for heat up here!!

John Z
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John Z
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2007, 07:36:45 AM »

I was just out to compete putting the housing and fans back into the bus. After hooking up the wires, i tried them out and spot two problems. 1 - the driver side fan does not run on the low setting. 2 - when turing on the HIGH switch the curb side fan runs fine. The driver side fan will "twitch" a couple times, like it does not know which way to run. Then it takes off running which i think is in the wrong direction. It runs fast (maybe even too fast) but hardly moves any air.

I got the book out and everything seems wired up correctly Is there any way to chk out the relay to see if it is working properly? Any ideas will be appreciated.

John Z
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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2007, 03:13:17 PM »

YOU WILL NEED TO USED YOUR OLD FLANGES USE A HACK SAW AND CUT THE SHAFT OFF BETWEEN THE MOTOR AND CAGE, SOAK IT WITH PB BLASTER THEN PUT A LARGE SOCKET ON THE INSIDE OF THE CAGE TO SUPPORT IT RIGHT AROUND WERE THE SHAFT COMES OUT THEN DRIVE IT OUT FROM THE SIDE YOU JUST CUT BE CAREFUL NOT TO BELL  THE SHAFT ITS SOFT. THE SHAFT DIA IS 5/16 FLEET PRODUCT HAS NEW CAGES ALSO. SOUND LIKE YOU HAVE A WIRE REVERSED ON THE DRIVERS MOTOR, THE RELAY IS JUST FORE THE LOW SPEED FROM WHAT I CAN SEE IN THE ELECTRICAL DIAGHRAM
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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2007, 04:22:42 PM »

The purpose of the relay and switch is to connect the input voltage to either the low or the high speed windings. There are actually two windings and one is the low speed the other is the high speed. The relay does not drop the voltage, only determines where the voltage is connected to.
Richard
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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2007, 08:15:07 PM »

hey do you have  a press?  Put the squirell cage on the flat plates, apply a small amount of pressure, I use Pb blaster and soak it down. leave it a while and apply some more of both.  If it doesn[t move apply a little heat and keep working in the pb blaster  they will come apart
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John Z
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2007, 09:25:34 AM »

Here is the latest update on my heater motor problem. Brought the motors to a well respected industrial electric motor rebuilding shop and dropped them off. Same story - they could not get the blowers off! They heated them and banged on them (evidence of both methods clearly visible on blower)! They just gave up. They even tried to locate new blowers thinking they would cut off the old ones and rebuild the motors but could not find a source.
 
So thank you George for pointing me in the right direction! The 3602 motor listed on Ryder Fleets's web site is a good relacement for the stock blowers. But as i said, one of my blowers was pretty bent up from the removal effort. I was tired from all this and decided to order new ones.

The motors listed on the Ryder site are made by MEI, their web site is meicorporation.com. The only blower they have that fits is a CW (clockwise) blower. The 3602 motor is CCW.

So if you need to replace blowers too, what you need is a 3737 blower and a 3552 motor. These are made by MEI, but they do not sell to the public. Ryder Fleet Supply had both of them in stock and does sell to the public. Both of these are CW. As of today a pair of each with shipping was about 140.00.

I hope to have them here by Friday, so i can try to stick them back in over the weekend.

Thanks to everyone for their help and support.  Smiley
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