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Author Topic: MCI-9 Transmission won't engage  (Read 31435 times)
Dallas
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« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2008, 05:33:40 AM »

Bill,

and JR,

Cat and I are still in Lillian, Alabama working on a 1950 Flxible that got a kind of a little hole in it's nose. We'll know more today if it's gonna be possible to make a runner out of it or if it will end up being an Organ donor for other Flxies.

Bill, If you really need help, we'll probably be here about another few days to a week working on this critter. Give us a call, you have our numbers.

Dallas
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« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2008, 01:36:18 PM »

Replace the TPS today, no glory.  ECU is still flashing a 21 code.  Starts one to think if the borrowed ECU is 100%.

At this point I'm clueless.

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
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V-6-92 Detroit, Allison 5 spd auto
Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
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« Reply #107 on: January 11, 2008, 07:49:55 PM »

Is the wiring between the TPS and ECM intact, not to ground (one lead probably should be when plugged up to the ECM?) and power on one lead?   Sorta talking out my a$$ on this since I don't know what your TPS looks like. 
Will the codes clear?  Do they reset, or are the codes just "there" whenever the ign master is turned on?  Interesting that your ECM doesn't set the same code if the fault is in the TPS..or TPS wiring.   
Does the TPS resistance check correctly at the ECM plug?   Sammy could (probably has already) give you the resistance range for the TPS.  Are you sure you have the correct TPS?
Looks like J1 pin 6 should go to ground (thru the ECM), pin 4 is TPS output (should have variable voltage with TPS movement), and pin 24 is 5V power to TPS.
You've probably already checked the wiring, but, J1/6 should have continuity out to TPS pin "C", J1/4 should go to TPS "B", and J1/24 should read to TPS "A".  None should go to ground when unplugged. 
Looks like a temp sender in the transmission is grounded thru the TPS/ECM terminal J1/6.   Is there continuity thru the temp sensor?  Not sure whether that would set a code thru the TPS circuit, but it is grounded thru the TPS ECM ground.
Need someone with an ATEC to disable the TPS and see if the transmission will still shift.  I think it would.  Probably shift into second gear and reverse.   There's probably a transmission limp mode.  If that's the situation, the TPS could be ruled out.   
 
Do you have a schematic of touch pad?  Be interesting to check the function of the touch pad at the J2 plug. 
Unless you find some old-timer that has a ton of experience with HT741/48, sorting out the problem may be beyond most technicians.  Even a simple wiring problem can be a nightmare for most mechanics.     
Still a possibility that the transmission is at fault.  Not likely really.  I keeping my money on the wiring....or exterior components. 
Reckon there's any way to test the cannon plug at the transmission for correct input?  Such as power to forward or reverse?  The plug would have to be checked while attached to the transmission.  Otherwise it'd probably set a list of codes.    Is there a test unit that the trans cannon plug plugs into for diagnostics?   That would be a useful item.   
What about a ProLink?  Did you ever get that unit to read at the DDL plug? If not, back to the wiring.  The DDL is simple to get attached to the ECM.  If necessary, run the wiring exterior to the DDL so that the transmission can be read.  The new ECM may have stored data. 
Reckon you can get Sammy down there?  Be worth a considerable gratuity to have his experience for a day or two?? 
What's happened to you is my worst nightmare.  An ATEC problem that cannot be readily diagnosed.  Bummer!
Hope something works out soon!  JR 
 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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« Reply #108 on: January 11, 2008, 10:41:08 PM »

Bill, don't know if this will help but.... In my learning experience with ATEC a few years ago, I discussed using my ATEC transmission with a mechanical engine with my local shop foreman at DD. He told me I would only need to have one thing, a throttle position sensor, for my ATEC transmission to function with the mechanical Cat.

In my experience the shift pad got wet and set a shut down/ do not shift code. I think a shift pad could contain the TPS brain. I took mine apart and it has enough circuits to do a shuttle launch. I did the $200 exchange deal and solved the problem, but I knew it had gotten wet. Does your roof ever leak? You could next day air any of your parts in question to ----- and get them back in next day air.

I'm not convinced that you have cleared the code. If you have it must be a solid failure to immediately reset. Have you had the shift pad out to be sure the wires are tight on the back?

The manual tells step by step testing to determine and repair a hard set 21 code. If you don't have this info I will dig my manual out of the cargo bay in the morning.
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Gold is the money of Kings, Silver is the money of Gentlemen, Barter is the money of Peasants, Debt is the money of Slaves.

$1M in $1000 bills = 8 inches high.
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$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
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« Reply #109 on: January 11, 2008, 11:53:59 PM »

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     Re: MCI-9 Transmission won't engage
Reply #41 on: November 19, 2007, 11:53:18 PM Quote Modify 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before I get flamed - just as a pleasant reminder - disconnect the ATEC from its power source for a 10 minute period - when reconnected shift to neutral - if you can't get a neutral indication see ATEC trouble shooting  guide - HTH
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« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2008, 06:29:39 AM »

Thanks for the input guys,

Here is where we are.

1.  Shift pad is a loaner from Heartland.  Believe it is good.  The only difference between mine and it, as Heartlands has a "Do NOT Shift Light".  Mine does not. (mine doesn't have the bulb).  All the power and wires are good to the shift pad.  Dallas and I did find one ground wire that didn't seem to be intact. That has been corrected.

2.  My ECU doesn't flash codes.  The loaner from Ted Keating's loaner, with my PROM, flashes a 21 code.  With the trouble shooting guide that Sammy e-mailed me, Dallas and I went through all the items.  They were all good.  The only concern was the test of the TPS itself.  I replaced the TPS, the ECU is still flashing 21, and will not reset.  NOTE:  We tested the TPS with a digital meter, I now believe it didn't give us correct reading.  I now believe we do not have a code 22 problem.   I'm not sure that the code has reset.  I've been through the steps more than once.  Will try once more, will unplug the ECU for ten minutes, plug it back in,, start the engine, then shift N to R.

3. While crawling in the engine compartment yesterday. I found my Speed Sensor has a problem.  It is not screwed on, the threads are stripped.  The Allison Transmission Troubleshooting Manual states that the transmissionwill not shift if the Speed Sensor is faulty.  Of course the huge question is why isn't the ECU flashing code 22. 

I need a littel education on the Speed Sensor.  Sammy says it a Signal Generator type.  Going to pull it now....

4.  I would gladly overnight and back a couple parts, if I knew someone that could try them in there bus.

5.  Do not have a schematic for the shift pad.  Would love one.

6.  Sammy and I have talked about getting a Prolink here again.  Don't believe that it will do any good, 1, being a have a code, and 2, I can't clear that code.

7.  Dip Stick..... remember, the end of my dipstick broke off and laying in the bottom of the pan.  Question,,, is it laying in the bottom of the pan, or is it, laying across the Low Oil Level sensor.  Someone needs to give me a little input on this.

Thanks guys, keep the input coming.   This bus has got to roll.  I start a new job in Florida Feb 4.

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
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« Reply #111 on: January 12, 2008, 08:01:08 AM »

There is a company up in northern Minnesota that folks always recommend for rebuilt shift pads and other electronic parts.  They would probably have schematics.  Good luck.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2008, 08:32:15 AM »

Bill,try calling S & J Chevrolet in Cerritos CA at 888-935-3335 talk to Adrian this outfit has some good techs and may can help
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« Reply #113 on: January 12, 2008, 08:47:51 AM »

What is name of the company in Northern Minnesota?

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
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« Reply #114 on: January 12, 2008, 08:49:42 AM »

What is name of the company in Northern Minnesota?

Ask Bryce (Busted Knuckle).  I don't have his phone number handy, but Dallas would have it.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #115 on: January 12, 2008, 06:45:42 PM »

I have already given Randys phone # in MN in an above post. These people are sharp. They have every part for DDEC and ATEC including every harness and connection ever made. They service the DD dealers nationwide but sell to the little guy at huge discount.

These people also know everything there is to know about these units and how to keep them running. (DAMN)! Gen Die Electric (Randy) helped me by checking my parts and returning them to me at his cost. (He paid the next day air out of his own pocket). I have never been treated so well! They were good, and I still had the same problem you have. I called, he asked me "did you clear the codes"? I said "gee how do you do that"? He told me and off I went. He also sent me a FREE ATEC manual just to help me out. We know your codes don't clear the same way as mine, so what is the trick?

Sometimes you can lead a horse to water but you can't get him to take a drink! I need to get the book because I think there is something about the TPS having to relearn its job and a certain way to do it. I don't go anywhere without GDE's phone # because I know he will send me next day parts anywhere and talk me through any problem I have.

I don't know if he gave me special attention because I own a trucking company and truck repair business or not, but I think they will treat you well.
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"Ammo Warrior" Keepers Of The Peace, Creators Of Destruction.
Gold is the money of Kings, Silver is the money of Gentlemen, Barter is the money of Peasants, Debt is the money of Slaves.

$1M in $1000 bills = 8 inches high.
$1B in $1000 bills = 800 feet high.
$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
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« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2008, 07:39:51 PM »

Ok Bill, here's what the book says about the 21 code. "After clearing, a 21 code may require as many as 5 cycles of "keystarting" (turn on power to ATEC and turn off power) to reset the self calibration feature of the throttle sensor.

To clear all diagnostic codes, the test switch must first be in the on position; then select reverse and go back to neutral. If a code does not clear, the problem is still present and must be corrected before the code will clear.

A 21 code,
a. will be caused by a throttle sensor failure
b. will be caused by a throttle sensor overstroked (either direction) entering fail zone.
c. could be caused by an open or short in chassis harness.

Check TS linkage, verify input cable to TS moves when throttle pedal is depressed. Close attention should be given to engine fuel lever, loose connections, and binding of cable.

The rest is test and repair info and is extensive, (20 pages) and mainly is trouble shooting and repair of chassis harness damage.

If you need the book I will next day it to you, let me know.
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"Ammo Warrior" Keepers Of The Peace, Creators Of Destruction.
Gold is the money of Kings, Silver is the money of Gentlemen, Barter is the money of Peasants, Debt is the money of Slaves.

$1M in $1000 bills = 8 inches high.
$1B in $1000 bills = 800 feet high.
$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
Kwajdiver
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« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2008, 07:56:59 PM »

JR,

Just scanned eight pages of post.  I don't see where you posted Randy's number.  May I please have it again.

Currently my Speed Sensor is bad, I will order a new one Monday.

Interested in trying to clear the 21 code some more.  You said up to five times.  First time I have heard about the 5 cycles.

Thanks,

Bill
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Auburndale, Florida
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Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
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« Reply #118 on: January 12, 2008, 08:03:43 PM »

Sorry Bill, but that wasn't me...that's Larry.  The OTHER NJT guy.   Wink
I'm waiting to get it too.  I'd like to check on some ATEC manuals.   The 'trans man' sounds like someone we should know.

JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

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« Reply #119 on: January 12, 2008, 09:40:46 PM »

The # I have is 218.262.4553, sorry, I thought I had posted it, maybe mod deleted it.

I found the # at the bottom of page 6, think I was tired and didn't do a good job explaining myself. Hope he/they can help.
My understanding is, first clear the code then reset the unit, if I read it right. Seems like you would have to do it the other way around though. Fun Fun Fun.

Key off probably means master power control off, but could be just dash power off, I don't know but I wrote the instructions word for word from the manual. Try both!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 10:02:56 PM by NJT 5573 » Logged

"Ammo Warrior" Keepers Of The Peace, Creators Of Destruction.
Gold is the money of Kings, Silver is the money of Gentlemen, Barter is the money of Peasants, Debt is the money of Slaves.

$1M in $1000 bills = 8 inches high.
$1B in $1000 bills = 800 feet high.
$1T in $1000 bills = 142 miles high
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