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Author Topic: Question for you HVAC guys (Now with Pictures)  (Read 3323 times)
captain ron
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« on: November 19, 2007, 11:29:45 AM »

I put a 110 volt water pump on my proheat setup. I just hooked up my thermostat and want it to control my pump also. Is that necessary or does that pump need to run all the time? Or is there a way to shut it down after everything cools down? I'm in LaLa Land when it comes to this stuff.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 05:49:33 PM by Charley Davidson » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2007, 12:07:13 PM »

Ron,
  I just ordered an aquastat to control the fans on the heater cores for our proheat. The aquastat fits in the return line to the proheat and does not allow the fans to come on until the water is 120 degrees. Our proheat has a water pump as part of the package.  You could use your thermostat to control a relay  that would operate your pump. (relay should be rated for 120 volt and have a coil that matches the ooutput voltage of your thermostat) Just curious, why did you add a 120 volt pump?  Jack
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captain ron
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2007, 12:34:41 PM »

The replacement pumps for a proheat is big $$$ so I got this one that a few other guys are using. Its for a hot water heating system for a home.
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2007, 03:49:54 PM »

Ron

If you are eliminating the 12v pump built into the Proheat then you should be able to use the 12v leads that ran the built in motor to control a relay to switch your 120V pump.  As Jack said you would need a relay with a 12/24VDC coil which ever your unit has and contacts rated for 120VAC.

Not sure if that would mess up the on board logic/self diagnostics.   I have not installed mine yet, but was thinking I might do something like this only with a larger DC pump.

Someone has surely done this before or at least added an axillary pump and hopefully will chime in too.

Don 4107
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 04:06:42 PM »

Hi Don,

The control board of the proheat senses the amp draw of the 12v pump. If you try and draw a different curraent from it, it will lock out.

Ron, do as Jack has told you and run down to RE Michael and pick up an aquastat. A single pole single throw should be about 40/50 dollars.

I also have a aqua stat controlling my circulation fans. You can strap the stat to the body of the proheat to bring on the pump.

Another route would be a current sensing relay. It would sense the current draw of the proheat and bring on the pump.

Good Luck
Nick-
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 04:09:35 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2007, 04:13:31 PM »

[

« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 08:54:07 PM by Ednj » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 04:14:30 PM »

hay Ron,

Here is a little more on the "current sensing relay"...  you would run the proheat main 12v feed wire through the sensing hole, then the relay will

make contact for your water pump.  Pretty simple and inexpensive set up.

http://www.crmagnetics.com/newprod/ProductView.asp?ProdName=CR5395

Nick-
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 04:19:47 PM »

Hi Don,

The control board of the proheat senses the amp draw of the 12v pump. If you try and draw a different curraent from it, it will lock out.



Good Luck
Nick-
>
Wire in your circulation pump, to the boiler with an on/off switch.
(If the Proheat is on the pump is on)
Install an AT transformer and zone valves, with the Thermostats (or switches) controlling the zone valves.
Thermostats, 1 for the bedroom, 1 for the livingroom.
Switches 1 for the wvo tank, 1 for the towel warmer etc.
With the pump constantly circulating through the flat plate exchanger you will always have hot water and the Proheat will stay up to temp, running less.
You could just leave the Thermostat turning on and off the proheat, when the thermostat calls for heat the proheat will fire up and run hard to get up to temp then shut down.

By the way I received my 34,000 BTU cabin air heater, that will go on it’s own zone.
Here’s a couple pictures’



Eddie,

 That transformer you have in pic #1, unmount it from that piece of wood and get it mounted on a metal work box.....
Fire Hazzard!  Fire Hazzard!...

Nick-
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captain ron
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 04:35:10 PM »


Eddie,

 That transformer you have in pic #1, unmount it from that piece of wood and get it mounted on a metal work box.....
Fire Hazzard!  Fire Hazzard!...

Nick-

It's mounted with a standoff but really it's part of his fire suppression system, if you notice it is hooked to his fresh water tank in case of a fire it will burn through and let water out putting out the fire. Very elaborate system  Grin
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 05:49:48 PM »


Quote from: Nick Badame Refrig. Co.
Eddie,

 That transformer you have in pic #1, unmount it from that piece of wood and get it mounted on a metal work box.....
Fire Hazzard!  Fire Hazzard!...

Nick-


Quote from: Charley Davidson
It's mounted with a standoff but really it's part of his fire suppression system, if you notice it is hooked to his fresh water tank in case of a fire it will burn through and let water out putting out the fire. Very elaborate system  Grin

FWIW IMOHO it still looks like a good amount of damage could be done by the flames going up first before melting through the tank! Maybe he should cut out that section of wood and screw it dirtectly to the tank for a more reliable "Fire Supression System" that way if the transformer overheated it could active the "Fire Suppression System with out having flames!  Grin
Grin  BK  Grin

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captain ron
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2007, 05:56:32 PM »

Can I use this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/honeywell-aquastat-40006A_W0QQitemZ140179153387QQihZ004QQcategoryZ109481QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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captain ron
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2007, 06:06:21 PM »

Or this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Honeywell-L4006A-aquastat-100-240-hi-or-low-limit_W0QQitemZ200174516765QQihZ010QQcategoryZ41987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2007, 06:57:01 PM »

Hi Ron,

You will want a strap on type aqua stat. The one you have listed from e-bay looks like it has a fixed bulb straight out the back.

Look at Bruce's aqua stat that I installed on his bus to operate his HP fan. That's the type you need.

Nick-
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2007, 07:19:51 PM »

Hi Ron,

I didn't see the second one you posted but, 100 deg on the low end is what you need.

I have my fan set to come on at 130 deg, and cycle off at 105 deg.

Nick-
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captain ron
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2007, 07:43:49 PM »

Second question. Are these going to operate a 12 volt fan or are they 110/220 ac only?
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2007, 08:36:17 PM »

Hi Ron,

Theese aqua stats are nothing but a switch controled by tempature, they can operate 12v dc, 24vdc, 115v ac, or 24v ac,

Nick-

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captain ron
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2007, 08:40:05 PM »

Thanks nick. Do I only need one? I'm gonna try to get that second one on Ebay.
Also can I use one to control my pump or should I?
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2007, 05:35:29 AM »

Hi Ron,

The first one you posted from e-bay is an "Immersion" type. Inotherwords, it's sensing probe needs to be in water.

This type has a 1/2" fitting in the rear of the control that screws into a boiler port. Most likely, not what you want...

Nick-
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captain ron
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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007, 07:39:10 PM »

Nick, Would these be worth taking a chance on? I need at least 3 zone valves.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-8-ZONE-VALVES-FOR-PARTS-OR-REPAIR-HVAC_W0QQitemZ190175609417QQihZ009QQcategoryZ53303QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also on the Aquastat would the one with the probe be ok to use. I could strap the probe on the pex tubing
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2007, 06:14:29 AM »

I don't think the Pro-Heat will even fire up if the controler dosen't sence the circulator pump running. You will probably have to simulate the load to trick the computer. The OEM pump is around $300. Sounds like you are already half way there with a cobbled up setup.  Donn
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2007, 06:29:30 AM »

Ron,
  Here is a link to the ProHeat coolant pump rebuild kit.  Jack

http://www.teleflexgfi.com/pdf/Truck_&_Bus/Proheat_X45/Bulletin/PB0008.pdf
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2007, 06:43:39 AM »

Ron,
   Here is a link to more than you will ever need to know about ProHeat.  Look through the service bulletins.  Jack


http://www.teleflexgfi.com/pdf/Truck_&_Bus/Proheat_X45/Bulletin/PB0008.pdf
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captain ron
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2007, 09:41:41 AM »

I don't think the Pro-Heat will even fire up if the controler dosen't sence the circulator pump running. You will probably have to simulate the load to trick the computer. The OEM pump is around $300. Sounds like you are already half way there with a cobbled up setup.  Donn

Cobbled up setup? Did Ace sign up under an alias?  When I'm in a better internet connection place I'll post pictures, There's nothing cobbled up about what I'm doing. And I've already got around the issue of the pump sensing power draw from the pump. 
Jack, I rebuilt a pump from parts from another pump. But this setup is probably more reliable in the long run. and cheaper.
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captain ron
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« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2007, 07:59:00 PM »

Well I have made a mistake on my manifold. I left out the domestic hot water loop which I will install tomorrow when I disconnect the temporary setup and tie into my new manifold. I got some more goodies today, I now have two 12 volt zone valves thanks to Mike & Walt up here at Bruce's. I also purchased a brand new White Rodgers strap on aquastat to switch a 12 volt fan I have on a small radiator for my system. It retails for $128.00 I got it on Ebay for $10.00 plus 6.00 shipping, sweet deal. I will make up my extra expansion tank tomorrow with Ross's help welding and have been advised to make the intake in the bottom and the return in the top so as not to get air in the system. I will weld a small plate with a holder on it for my shaving cream and put a towel over the tank for the towel warmer part. I'm also going to install an expanded metal grill in place of my raised panel in my vanity door and have a small 12 volt computer fan mounted to supply heat for my bathroom. Should be a pretty cool  Hot system.
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2007, 05:36:30 AM »

Charley,

Please post some pictures when you have the time. I would be interested in your setup as I will install my Proheat X45 in the spring.

Thanks,

Paul
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2007, 07:49:14 AM »

Ron
You DO NOT need another expansion tank. In fact you will not have an expansion tank, if you are hooking up your system as we had previously laid out. The engine radiator is at the top of the system and will be your only expansion tank. Everything else in the system will be flooded, but I guess it will be a good towel warmer? Wink   Undecided

Did you need a resistor on the relay that pulls in your 110 volt circulating pump to "get around the issue of the pump sensing power", or was the relay enough?

I have got to stop over and see your progress. Ed sent me pictures of the cabinets you built for him, they sure look good.

Bill
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captain ron
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2007, 07:07:25 PM »

I was able to work on my system for a while today and with help from Ross we have the supply manifold completed and tied into the loop, still using the temp. return setup I had. We installed the 2 12 volt zone valves I have (only one hooked up and being used right now) and that is really the ticket to better heat. I have changed my mind (I think) on using the second tank and will put in a 2 foot base board in my bathroom tied to the bedroom zone. After reading the other post on propane hydronic system I think I will try to find a couple radiators from a Harley Davidson VRod. They already have a really cool grill and fan cover and they would fit in with the theme and look I'm going for. Keep your eyes peeled for a wrecked VRod as I need an engine for my genset and a couple radiators. I have a very neat and high tech looking installation of my proheat and hope to get the pictures up soon. I don't have my photo shrinking program anymore as my old hard drive from my old laptop is missing and my connection is poor where I am.
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2007, 02:19:38 PM »

I just got a sneak preview. Grin
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MCI-9
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captain ron
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2007, 02:55:24 PM »

The pex lines on top of the tank are going to be replaced in a couple days and the loose wires all about will be permanent soon. Every thing will be neat and straight not all cobbled up. The blue hose will be pex also and tucked away better.
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captain ron
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2007, 06:38:26 PM »

I was able to get my Proheat fuel line connected to my main fuel tank, Pretty simple job. I am putting in a Y with a valve so I can run off of another tank I have for my WVO and burn off road fuel till I get My WVO system up and running. I mentioned that I forgot to put in my domestic hot water loop but I was mistaken, it was in there Smiley After I finish some cabinets I'm building for another bus I'll get back to finishing my PH system and by then my new Aquastat should be here.
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Sojourner
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2007, 10:01:29 PM »

Caution.......Ron & anyone else that has diesel heater in bus enclose compartment with combustible material such as wood and a possible fuel hose’s leak or break (within Pro-X45's area) is asking for greater risk of SMOKE & FIRE! Not only that....always put on its own metal box cover whenever installation is finish. They can get very hot either via low or no coolant or blown soft plug on top of boiler’s housing....They call it “Overheat Breaker” which melt whenever no coolant to protect it. The purpose is to avoid ultra high-pressure blowup through hot water line system.  It should shut down automatic but still you have a mess in compartment without cover.

Usually, diesel heater unit should be install in open compartment such as engine or any where outside air flow to vent unexpected fume whenever it overheat plus to access enhance cool air oxygen for hotter & complete combustion burning. Other word more oxygen per square inch.

About water pump without magnetic drive....
1) It need to be able to handle coolant’s chemical properties...pump’s seal.
2) To handle high coolant temperature....pump’s seal         
3) It must meet its spec for flow rate at a given pressure......otherwise it can over heat.

And pump must be on & water flowing before burner is firing.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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