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Author Topic: I HATE WINTER  (Read 3748 times)
bobofthenorth
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« on: November 27, 2007, 04:03:45 PM »

So the plan was that I was going to get up early, fire up the Aqua Hot, let it warm up while we had breakfast & then we were going to do the final packing for our departure tomorrow morning.  I didn’t get up all that early but it wasn’t late either, went out and flipped the thermostat up and listened.  I only have experience with one Aqua Hot but if they are all like this one its no problem to tell if they are running.  This one ROARS when it is running.  This morning it kind of mumbled.  Not good.

Sure enough it went through its start cycle a few times and then showed a start fault.  I buggered around with it until I got cold but no joy.  Did I mention – it was -30 or worse here this morning – I didn’t actually look at a thermometer until noon and it was only -22 then.  After breakfast and more buggering around I finally gave up on the Aqua Hot and plugged in the block heater.  I also dragged out my 75,000 BTU construction heater and stuffed it up against the rear bumper.  Then I went to town and bought some Melt and dumped that in the tank.  And I hooked up the boost charger & plugged in the battery blankets and put a magnetic heater on the pan.  The first rule of cold weather diesels is “always park the noisy end closest to the electric panel”. 

I managed to wait until about 12:30 and then gave it a shot of go juice in the little SS hole.  And the big 8-92 lit up first turn so that was the first good thing that had happened.  Then I thought I might as well try the Kubota cuz it had been getting all the waste heat off the construction heater.  And like all good Kubotas it lit up right away too.  So I let both the engines run for about an hour and then tried the Aqua Hot again.  Sure enough that time it started roaring too.


If you skipped ahead then you will know this story has a happy ending
(cuz the airbags are up)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 04:32:56 PM by bobofthenorth » Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 04:11:10 PM »

sounds like the fuel was a little to thick. Well it's a whole lot warmer in Yuma. come on down  Jerry
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 04:14:03 PM »

Hi BOTN,  as we all know it doesn't need to get much below freezing for diesel fuel to turn to jelly. Unfortunately, the fuel pump can't pump it, and the injectors can't inject it, and so on.

It seems that you found the right combination....HEAT and patience. And I really hate to mention that it was 81 degrees here in FL....sort of like rubbing salt in a wound isn't it? Wink Wink Wink

You DO have my complete and utter sympathies...I've coaxed many a cold diesel engine into running when they knew it was in their best interests to hibernate for the winter.

Bob
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 04:34:41 PM »

That's precisely what I was afraid of Bob - that the miserable SOB was going to go into hibernation and trap me here with it.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 04:37:11 PM »


It seems that you found the right combination....HEAT and patience. And I really hate to mention that it was 81 degrees here in FL....sort of like rubbing salt in a wound isn't it? Wink Wink Wink

Bob

That salt didn't even have that far to go to wound.  Are you really the grinch? Grin
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Songman
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 04:49:02 PM »

My first thought when I saw this thread subject was "I miss winter!". Living for the past 5 years in California and suffering through 40 degree temps during the coldest nights of the season really makes me miss my Georgia and Tennessee homes. I even have a hard time getting into the Christmas spirit when there are people wearing shorts every day.

But after reading your post... I can see why you hate winter. Or especially trying to start a bus on an extremely cold winter morning. Oh wait! It's not even winter yet! It is still fall. Global warming has struck again!
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 05:03:28 PM »

BOTN and others,

I laughed....did I laugh.  Great post.

It sounds like you have a tournament assortment of "gadgets" and strategys to get things warmed up.  Who Knu?

John
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 05:05:48 PM »

John - you don't know the 1/2 of it.  I only had about half of the gear deployed.  Thought about the tiger torch but never got it out, I've got two more mag heaters - could have had one on each side of the pan
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 05:49:52 PM »

Yup.

No tournament around here.

Life and death due to weather, dear southern friends, is the Canadian way of life.

Every day, all winter long.

another cold Molson Canadian, anyone?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2007, 05:52:40 PM »

Bob,

You might try #1 diesel if it is that cold or dilute the #2 with some kerosene or Jet fuel, perhaps???

I had issues with my Webasto last Christmas in that Denver blizzard, and I think that may have been one of my problems.  The other was too long of an exhaust pipe.  Unfortunately I had 130 gals of #2 diesel bought in south Texas in my genny and Webasto tank so I couldn't dilute it to try something else.   The Kubota genny ran ok on the fuel, but my understanding is the Webasto is very fussy about fuel and appropriate fuel pressure.

David
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2007, 06:09:12 PM »

I bought fuel at the Pikes Peak Co-Op, and asked if they had any treatment to protect it to -25*. They said it wasn't necessary if that was as cold a temp as I expected to experience.

I have only tested it with my coach engine down to +10* so far, (successfully) but once I get my new ProHeat installation completed, I may have a chance to see if it will indeed protect my fuel down to the minus mid 20's.

Jay
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2007, 08:55:56 PM »

Bob,

I am almost afraid to ask what a "Tiger Torch" is.  How many people does it take to "get it out"? 

You guys up there sure do seem to have a fascination with incendiary devices and products.  You must have been a hoot in the military.

Buswarrior,

I am sure it isn't a joke.  In the desert the locals always carry water.  In Fla. it is a snake bite kit.  Seems no matter where ya go it is always sumpin.  Now that Molson stuff is a real reason TO GO somewhere.  San Miguel is another and Lowenbrau speaks for itself but in German.

Here's to happier and warmer times.  I liked Canada...except for the border guard incident.  Whew!

Travel and be well, all.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2007, 09:19:39 PM »

Songman  spend 2 winters in Russia like me before i retired and you can  get the Christmas spirit with the wearing of shorts I LOVE SCOTTSDALE AZ even in the summer heat it will take 2or3 years for me to thaw out
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2007, 09:34:43 PM »

Don't turn off the Aqua_Hot off until you hit the warm weather ... LOL. I thought you'd be gone by now BOB. It's only 0 C degs here ... not nearly as bad looking as your picture.
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« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2007, 09:52:36 PM »

Bob, I have a solution to your problem.  Just change your name to Bobofthesouth.   Then travel far enough south that you need that 50 amp service to keep cool instead of trying to keep things thawed! Smiley   Hope if I ever have problems getting my DD warm enough to start, someone as well equipped as you is near.  Wait, what am I saying, I don't ever want to be somewhere that cold ever again!!!!

I think you are right, I hate winter too.

Happy trails,

Don 4107
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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2007, 10:24:24 PM »

Bob, that's one good lookin' bus on one nasty lookin' day. (It's -16C here, but now it doesn't really feel too bad at all).

Safe travels to warmer places! (You are going south, right?)

Don
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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2007, 05:32:15 AM »

Hey Bob  you can't leave us,  What are the rest of us going to do,  We need you heating the air around your bus so the rest of us don't freeze.  Don't let out the secret of the "tiger torch"   Grin
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 06:17:02 AM »

You guys have a different name for tiger torches - I heard it once but I can't remember what it is.  Its a great way to warm a frozen engine with only minimal risk of burning everything to the ground.  You stick the torch in the end of about 3 or 4 feet of 4" pipe with a 90 or 45 elbow on the other end.  Then you stick the elbow directly under the oil pan, fire up the torch, turn the bottle upside down, go away and pray.  If everything goes well when you come back the engine starts like its July 15.  There is a finite possibility of disaster though which is why it is always my absolute last resort.

And for those of you who suggested fuel I'm almost 100% sure that is what the problem was.  We can't buy winter fuel year round.  The bulk dealers stock summer fuel until harvest is over and then they start blending down to winter fuel.  I fueled up in early Oct & I expect Ken had some kind of a blend in the tank by then.  I deliberately waited until then thinking I would get a blend and it wouldn't be a problem.  It really shouldn't be this bloody cold yet. 
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 07:17:50 AM »

I have a empty RV lot beside me here in Gulfport, MS.  From the front seat you can see the ocean.  Oh! The good news, it;s 60degs out this morning.  Toast for you....

Should I reserve it for you,,,, Grin

Bill
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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 09:01:07 AM »

Problem is Bob. You didnt LEAVE with the Birds.. They know better than to wait till it gets that cold ..
I can see in the pics, shes been Shivering.. tsk  tsk  tsk  You could get Arrested here for Bus Abuse by the
STPCTB..  you lucky the bus cant dial a phone  Angry


 Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2007, 02:23:42 PM »

I don't even know what to say!

It was 40F here on the Eastern Shore of Maryland & I was thinking about "farther south".

My hat is off to you guys who can brave the cold. I remember without fondness trying to start my uncle's '54 Autocar by building a fire under the engine. More than once I contemplated putting on a little more wood & not having to start that truck ever again.

I have an idea Bob: You can spend the winter here at my house where the temp will only drop to mid-twenties and I'll go spend my winter in Florida.

It will be summer for both of us!!   Grin Grin Grin Grin

ROFL!!
TOM
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2007, 04:15:52 PM »

Hi Bob,
One other thing for you to look at ...

I had problems with my webasto and it started getting harder and harder to get it to start.  At first it was only having problems in 10 degree weather, then 20 degree and finally it wouldn't even start in 40 degree weather.  Well, after talking to a local bus maintenance facility they told me this almost always turned out to be a nozzle issue.  Sure enough, I put a new nozzle on the burner assembly and I've never had problems again.  The coldest I had to start it was at -10 earlier this year.  The nozzle cost me $28 to replace.  On my setup it is real quick and easy to replace.  You might consider just replacing the nozzle as you can't tell from looking at it if it is good or bad.

-Brian
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« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2007, 04:35:10 PM »

Hi Bob  I think most other people call them Brush burners. it's just us Cannucks that call them Tiger torches. Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2007, 04:58:43 PM »

Could be worserererer!  Wink

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/CANU0026

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/CANU0003

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/CANT0032

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/CANT0032
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2007, 08:15:48 PM »

You are right Dallas - it could always be worse.  It could be a H of a lot better mind you but it could always be worse too.  The moneypit fired up just fine this morning - Marilyn took off for P.A. in the trucklet - me & George II headed on down the road.  Now we're holed up behind a motel on the edge of Saskatoon.  Will be here until Friday morning and then move to Regina. 
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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Dallas
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2007, 08:29:37 PM »

All I can say Bob, is, Better you than Me!

Saskatoon weather for all you warm people: http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/CASK0276

You can also check out what it actually looks like where Bob is: http://webcam.usask.ca/ctv.html

or Here: http://www.weatherbonk.com/weather/camDetail.jsp?id=cam_1170910444388

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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2007, 08:36:38 PM »

Bob,

 The lights are still on  Smiley

Have a safe trip


Skip
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« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2007, 10:17:41 PM »

Guys,

Go click on Dallas' web pages.  It was MINUS 33 degrees up there.  Bob said he was spending the night?  Why?  Run out of meth?  What?

Click on that last page and you get hooked into the CBC network for weather.  Their page also carries two adds for the local LESBIAN NETWORK/CLUB.  I don't have serious problems with gays of any flavor but advertising on the weather channel ?  Just how progressive are these Cannucks? LOL Grin Grin Grin  Hey, my mother surfs.... Undecided

Thanks Dallas, you have a lot of talent.  How do you find these things like the weather in Saskat@@@@@?

Stay warm and friendly,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2007, 10:35:02 PM »

Bob,

That weather channel said the temps there was down to minus 33 at night and then it skyrocketed up to minus 23 for a toasty afternoon.  No wonder you don't like the government.  Little wonder, with that kind of weather you SHOULD hate almost everything including Santa.

I think you said that your hydronic system used the fresh water to circulate.  How do you keep that from frezing up when you stop for a couple days?  You must have one heck of a drain system on that puppy to keep the coach stored in that clime and not loose the Hydronics in total.  The people up there amaze me with what they cope with as a matter of course.

Good luck in your travels south.  What is P.A.?

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2007, 08:21:18 AM »

Today in Los Angeles- 78/53.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2007, 09:00:08 AM »


Good luck in your travels south.  What is P.A.?



John -

P.A. = Prince Albert, a town in Saskatchewan Province.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2007, 09:38:09 AM »

P. A. = Port Angeles just south of Victoria, B.C. across the Strait of Juan de Fuca on the Olympic peninsula.
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« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2007, 05:53:19 PM »

Many ways to solve "cold fuel" problems.......in the tank...  Additives, such as are available at any truck stop.  And yes...even that "other" fuel. Doesn't take much of it, depending on your tank size, a soda can or two, usually does the trick.

BTW, while the Webasto will warm the engine and heat exchangers and water heater, not sure how it will warm the fuel....unless one wraps the fuel tank.  That would take a lot of copper  and a lot of warming, seems to me.   Smiley

FWIW.   Where's Fast Fred?

RCB
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« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2007, 07:29:10 PM »

Our heating system is plumbed directly to the engine coolant.  We run a 50/50 AF/water mix that's good to about -45.  Its no warmer today but we're one day closer to leaving this deep freeze so that's a good thing.  Last night I discovered that one of my ceramic heaters pulls 15 amps when set on high.  That's good to know.  And my Freedom 25 inverter works just fine in protect mode.  It was sucking the batteries down to keep the breaker on the campground post protected. 

Mama & me stayed toasty warm under the electric blanket (with separate zone controls).


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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2007, 12:09:12 PM »

Bob,

You are the man.  I could see no benefit to using the fresh water for the Pro Heat (PH).  I should think that valving could protect the engine from a heating system leak and not down the bus.  Fresh water also leaves a residue ANYEHERE I have ever been.  Circulating virgin fresh would just coat all my heat exchangers and other elements with that white stuff and the boiler needs inspected INSIDE every year or so and that should present no problem whatsoever.  Coolant leaves residue also but you have additives and it will only build up with what is contained in the 50% mix.....use distilled and you get zero impurities.  Like I said, the coolant seemed the only way to go but there is a catch.  Smart people on this board have opted for the fresh approach and I still ponder their full rationale.  All opinions respected and each gives me pause. Smiley

Pop the shore breaker and then turn it down a notch.  That is fine tuning your load. Roll Eyes

Good and safe travels my fellow Nut Grin Grin Grin  Wish we were trading places...after you get a little further south. Cry

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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