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Author Topic: 12v next to 120v wiring.  (Read 1810 times)
Chaz
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« on: December 03, 2007, 05:04:30 PM »

I have been reading the "Mistakes Thread" at the top of the page and paying close attention!!  Wink Cheesy
  Something that I had been thinking about but not sure what to do or if I even should, is putting some sort of 12v outlet next to the 120v outlet. I know there are cig lighter outlets that can be used, but I was kicking around some sort of, I dunno, "interesting" type socket and then just wire anything that I have that is 12v to fit the socket. Make sense at all?? It may be a waste of time, but just something I was thinking about.
  I know there are 12v appliances out there, but I'm not sure how they plug in. If there is an  industry standard, maybe thats the way I should go. (if at all)
  OH, by the way, for 12v, I am planning on running a couple #6 wires thru the center tunnel and then splice off of that where I need to, and run a smaller wire from there. I'll fuse each run separately. I'm hoping it will make wiring the 12v a little easier. Especially down the road if I want to add something. It may also be easier to diagnose if I should have a short or something happen.

   Yet, just another thought to be picked apart,     Wink
         Chaz
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FloridaCliff
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 05:19:36 PM »

Chaz,

I put a 12vdc on each side of the bed by the 110 outlets and the same in the kids bunks.

Also added one by each front seat and a few in the parlor.

I made my own 12vdc outlets for about $1.50 each....

Bought some marine 12vdc outlets on ebay and drilled out blank (soft plastic) single gang covers.

I ran a trunk line back to my mid point distribution and branch circuits to each area.  Mainly to avoid a short or over load taking out all of the dc system at once....

Cliff

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1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 05:58:35 PM »

Hi Chaz,

This type is the most common. There are other types with two slanted holes but you won't find much that will fit them.

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 06:00:53 PM »

"Power" outlets, which are glorified cigarette lighter sockets, are the most common 12V outlet style.   Almost any plug-in 12V appliance or accessory will have a cigarette lighter style plug. 
If you want "interesting" look at marine outlet stores for ciggy socket with brass or show quality chrome on brass, night lights, and covers. 
If you get away from the ciggy lighter format, you'll have to change the plugs on most 12V accessories.   Your cell phone and computer 12V adaptor have ciggy plugs.  You sure you want to change all these things out?  Could make an adaptor up for connections. Be careful with the polarity!   Shocked
If you want more "interesting"...continue to look at marine suppliers.  They have all sorts of neat methods to connect 12Vdc to whatever.  Most marine product is good quality.
FWIW, JR


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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 07:16:11 PM »

The 120 volt outlet needs to be enclosed in a box that has no 12 volt wires in it.  The 12 volt outlet doesn't need an enclosure or box behind it. 
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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Sean
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 07:22:08 PM »

... I know there are cig lighter outlets that can be used, but I was kicking around some sort of, I dunno, "interesting" type socket and then just wire anything that I have that is 12v to fit the socket. ...


Chaz,

If you have no 240 VAC aboard, the code permits you to use 240 VAC plugs and receptacles for your low voltage DC appliances.  For example, I placed NEMA 6-15R receptacles throughout my coach as combination 12VDC/24VDC outlets (one "hot" leg is 12v, the other is 24v, with the "ground" terminal being the common negative).  This allows us to use 12 or 24 VDC wherever we might need it conveniently.

That being said, you will find that the vast majority of 12vdc appliances come equipped with plugs designed to fit the common automotive "cigar-lighter" style outlet.  If you really intend to buy and use common 12vdc items regularly, you will be better off using the automotive "power outlet" type connectors that others have suggested.

FWIW, we installed cigar-lighter style outlets at the dashboard and at the main power panel, to facilitate charging cell phones, plugging in GPS receivers, and that sort of thing.  And I have an adapter for our special receptacles.  Also, we installed a "BMW-style" 12-volt outlet outside the coach to charge the motorcycle batteries -- this is another concentric round style plug that is much more secure than the cigar lighter type -- available from motorcycle dealers, or from John Deere (it is also used as a 12v accessory plug on their tractors).

HTH.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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Chaz
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 06:04:07 AM »

Hey, thanx guys. I guess a cig lighter outlet it is! I was considering the "cool factor" but don't really need all the extra work. But the 240 outlet does sound interesting! But I'll stick just to 12 volt.   (excuse me for a minute......... my puppy just "broke wind"........ OMG!!!!   Shocked Tongue  Cry )

  Ok, I think it's safe again. Oh man........... how am I EVER going to travel with THAT!!??!!??

  Anyway, thanx again.

   Chaz
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 08:07:27 AM »

If your puppy is blowing down wind that bad, the diet should be changed until your puppy doesn't blow.

There are 12v plugs made that look like normal plugs, only smaller.  They have a big pin and a smaller pin so there is only one way to plug in.  Can't remember where to buy it though, sorry.  Good Luck, TomC
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Dale MC8
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 09:45:37 AM »

Hey Chaz, It is my understanding that there are two types of cigar lighter outlets; one for cigar lighters and the other designed for the longer time needed by appliances. WARNING; my understanding of things like this are often colored by "shouldn't it be this way" thinking. You might be interested in what the Alternative Energy people use as a standard outlet in homes wired for 12 volt. Check out "Backwoods Solar" for a start.

HTH, Dale MC8
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 10:07:08 AM »

Hey Chaz,

These little fuse blocks make good circuits.  Unfortunately the place I got them in San Antonio went out of business.  Each block holds 6 ciruits fed by a #6 wire.  The #6 goes to a solid copper bar that connects to my battery bank.  The bar was scrounged at a scrap yard.  I cut and threaded holes in it, insulated it from its mount and mounted it in an enclosure for safety.

The copper bar on the left is the ground wich has an old neutral buss bar I scrounged from a discarded electric panel.  All 12v- wires come back to this buss.  That is where all those white wires are connected.  None of my house wiring is grounded at the fixture.  All are home runs back to the buss.  The copper bar on the right is the 12v+.  It is 8" from the inverter and 2' from the battery bank.  Nice, close, tight, and neat.  I used air conditioner compressor rubber motor mounts to isolate the bar from the mounting surface.  Got those from Grainger.

The gray cable has 15 wires in it and controls a block of 12 different relays (running vertcally) located behind that diagonal bar that cannot be seen very well.  The gray cable goes to the bus cockpit to various contol switches.  The relays are used for various circuits in the bus.  There are several spares if needed.  This was done to keep the wire size small to the cockpit. 

I tried to keep all my 12v house wiring black and white only.   That way anyone who works on the coach knows what that wiring does, what it is hooked to and what the voltage is.

David
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 10:24:10 AM by David Anderson » Logged
Chaz
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 10:52:58 AM »

Tom,
  It's Precise Puppy Food. About the best out there, I'm told. It might be EVERYTHING ELSE he feels he has to eat!!! (leaves, sticks, small pieces of plastic, paper, cardboard, etc. I think he's part goat!

  Dale,
   I have been looking around on Marine site, Home Power.com, WindSun, etc. I found a socket in a stardard switch plate for 5.00 on windsun,com.   http://www.windsun.com/AEE_Solar_catalog.pdf
   
   Dave,
   That is a very nice looking setup!!!. Similar to what I had in mind except my fuses or breakers - which is what I'm leaning towards , 5.00 apiece - will be in the repective bays and a smaller wire run to the socket from there. I think it will work ok. But you have a very clean looking setup there. Nice job!

   Chaz

   
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Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
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