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Author Topic: What does it mean when they say " For Leagle reasons, we cannot give miles  (Read 2426 times)
superpickle
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« on: December 06, 2007, 01:07:36 PM »

on the engine.. What kind of Leagle stuff prevents them from telling yo the Milege on a Bus.. Huh Huh
Whats Leagle about That Huh Huh Huh

seems Fishy to me...

Paul...
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 01:13:42 PM »

I can only imagine that in most states vehicles over a certain age do not require mileage disclosure.  Kinda like my dentist telling me the federal government requires that they collect certain personal data...... naw!  What the feds say is that if you collect such information you must disclose the patients right to decline and outline security precautions for the info.  Now that's LEGAL!
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 01:24:12 PM »

Many buses are likely to have gone around the clock more than once -- or have had several odometers fitted during their life. Makes it impossible to give an accurate figure so to give no figure is safest.

Instead of asking "how many miles has it done", ask them "what is the current odometer reading".  The first question is impossible to answer but the second one is just the same as asking the VIN
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 01:30:49 PM by tonylee » Logged

tekebird
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 01:30:58 PM »

It is a Used car Sales Lot BS statement used when they DO NOT want to disclose mileage for reasons directly related to the sale.

Any bus coming from an actual bus compnany will have maint records available.

IMHO any bus dealer who buys a bus at auction where the bus is coming from a bus  comany should request the maint records and disclose this info.

with that said, there are some instances where it may actually be unknown.

1 multiple owners since Engine rebuild and PO's did not keep records of the owners before them.  This is most common with Churches......keep in mind God takes care of not only the general maint but major engine work as well.  It also rears it's head in the Conversion coach market where the owner honestly does not know.

My previously owned 04 we had approx mileage for the coach.....mainly due to the second owner being out of business before we got it.......we did have documentaion on mileage from the first owner.  2nd owner mileage was approximated based on a figured average per year.

Example:  At the time NJT dumped all their MC-9's maint records were available from NJT.  Not sure if ABC ( who bought most of them shared with the new buyers.

             DART (Dallas) auctioned off a bunch A3 MCI's...not sure if it was publicised...but those recored were available from DART at the time.

There have been several coaches I would have loved to jump on....but when asked about Mileage, I was told it was unknown........even though I know where the coach came from and records were likely available ( If I called and asked for them from the company)...but it put such a sour taste in my mouth I turned away.

If the seller is concerned about someone coming after them that should be covered in the sales contract.  Unless of course, the seller actually knows and thinks it reduces the salability of the coach. ( which is likely the case)
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 01:33:38 PM »

generally a reputable and knowledgable Shop will reset the odometer at an Engine rebuild or replacement.  I have yet to see a bus that had a odo that did not go to 999,999.9



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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 06:56:37 PM »

There are numerous reasons a bus odometer does not accurate show the actual mileage and this statement keeps the seller from being liable if the odometer is not correct.

I don't blame any seller if he is not the original owner, there is no way he can know for sure without complete records which are worth the paper they're printed on!

If I were selling I would say "Actual mileage unknown".

Mileage on an old bus is not the key anyway, condition is.
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 07:15:54 PM »

If someone is goofy or doofy enough to claim a certain mileage on a vehicle that has truly unkown or actual recorded mileage and the buyer decides to sue for misrepresentation that is why someone would say that.

It is illegal to misrepresent mileage and will hold up in court, Even if it's a verbal misrepresentation.

A person may say, Mileage Unknown or mileage exceeds mechanical limits statement is acceptable. They would not gaurantee mileage properly even if fairly accurate records were kept.

Remember this is the land of "Litigate" before you think.....A load of crap but true...

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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 07:34:45 PM »

I think thats XXXXXXXX,  [come on Doug, you know the drill] nick-

I think it is funny that low mile or coaches with rebuilt engines are regularly sold with mileages "represented" while the same dealer with a bus from the same company has one that Mileage is unknown. 

That is a pretty good sign the seller does not want to tell you because it is high miles or representtive of a run out engine.

True we are a very litigous society......and not disclosing mileage is in no way a legal Cloak to being sued.

that said even a fresh factory engine can grenade shortly into it's life.

I just wish that bus sellers that have access to records would use them and offer them to the owners.  Not is just  being a typical shaddy used car dealer.


Example, My MC-8 was purchased new by Anhauser Busch and sent direct from Pembina to Colubus for it's interior........PO stated 165k or so from rebuild.

Upon delivery ( PO delivered the bus on his dime prior to payment.....good sign it is in good shape) we were going through the rather disorganized records.......TADA!  165k from new. 

Lots of folks thing a RED DD is a Telltale of a DD reliabuilt rebuild.... which is why the seller represented it as such (by odometer) however MCI mated new DD's (red) to all autos for years.



« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 08:02:01 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 08:16:31 PM »

I agree, There should have been a system of keeping a permanent odometer record on every vehicle. However I cannot defend or derate anyone for not having accurate information and history.

On buses, They were built and are built for a specific lifetime overall which includes changing out just about everything mechanical or electronic during the life of the unit in commercial operation.

Stuff fails sooner or later and things like speedometers get replaced for many reasons including when engines are replaced. Hubometers get replaced and are subject to damage or loss in the tire shops.

Also remember that most of the buses we convert were never intended to become the property of private citizens so any assumed mileage is just that and not really something that can be depended on.

Some coaches are converted new and those would probably be fairly accurate.

I saw an old mechanical monitor system once on an old greyhound that kept track of engine hours and miles travelled on a multi-pointer dial. I think it kept up to 10k hours and 3 million miles on the dials. It was hidden up in an equipment bay and had a speedo cable and air fitting. It started recording when the air pressure was up.
Never saw any more...

Records are only as good as the people keeping them. I figure that anything relatively close to the actual mileage would be acceptable to most people.

The bottom line is: Who Cares!!... We generally don't care about miles if everything is in reasonably good mechanical condition or recent documentation of repairs are provided.

Most of us also could care less on some of these monsters. We are going to fix stuff anyway and even if purported mileage information is available.

SP - Why do you start these things?
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2007, 09:42:01 PM »

The reasons that I place that in my ads and tell people the same is for the following reasons: I did not drive the bus and therefore can not attest to the milage. I did not keep the records and as such can not prove one way or another the milage. And yes, you can say what you want in a bill of sale, such as "sold as is where is" and a few bad people will still sue you.

Here is one of many true stories to share:  A major bus dealer sells a bus and provides the maintance records to the new buyer. The dealer did not do the maintance, just provide the records that were given them. The bus gets in an accident, driver says brakes failed.  The person sues the bus operator, the major bus dealer who sold the bus and the previse owner, because records said the brakes were replaced 2 years earlier. The major bus dealer paid 1 million to be done with the case. Were they at fault? It was cheaper to pay the million than to defend the case, they have the deep pockets. If the records are not provided, it is hard to claim damages for something that no one claims to have done.

Sure you can think someone is hiding something, but reality is they are trying to limit liability. After a bus is 10 to 12 years old 90 percent of them have over a million miles on them. All engines transmission etc have been replaced at least once.  The bus should make it another 2 million miles, if it is not from the rust belt. The key is to see what the condition is. Is the body straight, is the interior nice, does it seem tight. If so, the bus was proablily well care for. You will be taking out the seats, so you do not care, but look at them. If there are nice... the operator cared about the bus.

I'm being sue by someone back east. he purchase a bus, drove it for 2 years without a problem. He got the maintenance records from the previous owner which said the bus had 1.1 million miles on it... he said that if he knew that he would not have purchased the bus... I did not know that, he got the records after he purchased the bus. Bottom line, I will pay out to an attorney etc. even though the bus was sold as is where is... and he still has not had a problem with the bus?

I'm sorry that I turn people off because I state that I do not provide records for legal reasons... I really do not know what to do. I can't seem to win either way because people do not want to be responable for there purchase. The buses I sell are always sold for less than the dealers and below retail. They are all used. Should I claim to know the mileage?  But that does not matter, people will still sue you. so you try to cover yourself. But it does not work all the time, but the reason for no records is not that I do not want the buyer to know, but because I do not want to be sued. Every buyer says "Oh no, I would not do that" until they find a reason not to be happy.

I like buses, I know them pretty well and try to represent them fairly. I try to do what is right if there is a problem. But when some buys a bus for $10,000 and sues you for $15,000 what are you to do? I don't get it.

Sorry, I got caught up... Please, buy a bus knowing that something will break, sooner or later, because it will. And the seller and operator proabilty does not know  ahead of time. A major problem yes, as would anyone when they test drive a bus. Is the engine or trans sick? You can often tell. And that if the bus is 10 years or older, it's an older bus. It will break at some time. Buy a bus, be happy with it and do not blame the seller. By doing that, you will have more fun and better luck going forward. Is there anyone out there that is happy with a bus they purchased from me? Many are and they are the quite happy ones.
Oh, buy the way I have a nice clean MCI 102C3 for sale.... do not know the milage, sorry
Mike
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2007, 10:48:00 PM »

Mike,

Yours is a special problem.  I doubt any can fully appreciate your position that isn't in a similar situation.  The lawsuit thing is like a hammer over your head. It has to give you heartburn and cost you sleep.  I certainly don't envy you that aspect of your business.

My understanding, at least in the theory of law, is that you can give up your right to sue with proper disclaimers.  The only person that cannot do that is a "minor child".  Hurt one of those and they can come after you forever regardless of what they or anyone else signed.  But a grownup "should" be able to sign away that right for himself and an attorney "should" be able to assemble that disclaimer.  Please read that as my being encouraging and not disputing you.

I have almost no time at present but after the first of the year i will try to research this.  No guarantees on that though....as is, where is, and all my good intension.

John

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 03:34:14 PM »

I for do not disagree with or dispute Mikes practice of not disclosing mileage. In today world you have to do everything to protect yourself due to the one person who has nothing better to do than sue because they feel like it. Just providing records can cause you to be liable as Mike said. In the marine world when my father was with Chris Craft they were sued because a guy towing a Chris Craft from a deck cleat had his wife killed when the cleat pulled out and sling shot forward and hit her in the head. while this is certainly tragic the facts are that the cleat was not installed by Chris Craft nor a dealer but by a previous owner of the boat. not to mention that a cleat is not meant to be used to tow but since Chris Craft had money and the previous owner didnt they got sued and had to pay out millions in the settlement. is that fair and reasonable? NO. but that is not what you deal in with a business. If I wasnt personally present during the life of the vehicle I would not state mileage either. and anyone who changes out an odometer or resets one due to an engine rebuild is in violation of federal law if it is not disclosed as mileage inacurate on the paperwork. Mileage relates to the vehicle not the engine or odometer reading. just my $.02.
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 05:56:31 PM »

Hey Mike, thanks for sharing your point of view with the rest of us. business people are not in a very good position when it come to our rights and those of the "buyer" maybe just maybe when a buyer signs an agreement/bill of sale that says as is no warranty it means just what it says and the purchaser will be upstanding after the fact when his priest,wife,sister,uncle,fwb,charter boat captian etc tries to change his mind and he has buyers remorse they will think twice BEFORE BUYING !!!!

THANKS AGAIN FOR SHARING AND

DRIVER MOVE THAT BUS !!!!

CHRIS 
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 06:19:03 PM »

Hello.

Different jurisdictions have regulations governing these matters for vehicle sales people and companies.

To violate what the licencing jurisdiction demands will put a business out of business!

Mileage claims are a funny business when you are talking in excess of 6 figures, and have multiple owners and no reliable recording device on the vehicle.

The newer stuff will expose the truth through the engine computer.

Also, once a coach decends into the second or third tier companies...well, the sky is not high enough to be called a limit to the stories and inuendo that is a way of life at that level.

Unless you buy a coach at the price point of coming from a first tier/original owner coach company, all bets are off on the truthfulness of the info available on a used coach.

These days, first tier coaches are 10- 12 years old and a good bit above the $50 000 mark.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2007, 07:02:16 AM »

Having an Attorney as a roomate who works in the Auto industry, she tells me that  no matter what you do you can get sued for whatever made up reason someone can get anattorney to argue.  Nature of  Litagous society.

This is evidenced by Mike getting sued 2 years after a sale for a bus he did not provide records for.

Quite possible this guy would have not bought the bus knowing the mileage, with that said he is a Fing idiot becasue almost any used bus over 10 years old will be in excess of 1 million miles.

This guy that is suing Mike WILL win.....becuse he will have at least an affidavit from the PO stating that The mileage was disclosed to Mike, even just in conversation.  Judges and especially Juries   do not like even the idea of Lying by ommision



AGAIN: Disclaimer Disclaimer Disclaimer. 

State: Mileage is reported and may not be acurate

State: Maintainance records that are provided may not be accurate or complete.

you can also require as a condition of sale that the buyer pay to have the unit inspected at an idependant shop of thier choosing......That is the biggest leagal out.

Buy a hot coffee ant macdonnalds and spill it on your lap.......it's mac Donalds fault...even though it is HOT coffee, Labeled as such

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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2007, 10:01:47 AM »

Mileage is  subjective anyway really, it just is a nice reference.

a rebuilkd with 100k on it can go bas  for any number of reasons...., might not fail for another 50k but damage can be done by a number of neglected things.



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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2007, 06:54:12 PM »

I say you should hire a competent lawyer, have him write a disclaimer you can have your purchasers sign, stating that there are no guarantees, period.  The bus is sold as is, etc, yada, yada.....
Then, if you are treatened with a lawsuit, offer to give him your first born, go home and kill your dog, and maybe give him your old lady.  Maybe that'll shut 'em up!  He! He!
Dennis
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2007, 09:33:37 PM »

Takebird,

The McDonald’s “Hot Coffee Story” is one of my absolute favorites and Thank Yew for bringing it up.  This tale is spun from all the reports in Time, News week etc.. and all the daily newspapers I used to read as a diversion while traveling seven months out of the year.  Also, I used to have a drinking circle that was composed of eight or ten attorneys at any given time.  They were entertaining and only a couple were rich and nearly all drank Scotch or Royal Crown in copious quantities.  It is an understatement that I have taken literary licence but all the salient facts are there.  You can reassemble this tale if you just go to the public library and ask the research librarian to help you do a subject search of periodicals and newsprint for the subject Mc.......coffee.....real hot.  Take maybe a couple of hours for a thorough read and then you will have your own tail(no pun intended).  Written as is, where was and so forth.

Once upon a time, long ago, in a corp. executive offices suite there was a VP with time on his hands and a Corp Lawyer in his ear.  The rumbling he was hearing was from “the field” and it concerned employee injuries attributed to hot coffee spills.  It seemed logical to him that if some minimum pay slob spilled hot coffee on him/her self they would be burned, er injured.  So why bother him with this BS was his question?  Seems that the proposed fix was to replace “all” the coffee warmers in , oh say, all of California, Az. And Nev.  While he did not read the report, too busy, he did have the temerity to make a executive decision to “DISAPPROVED” the proposal.  He was “The Decider”.  He was also now in the loop as the “go to guy” on the warmer problem.  He had a executive size ego and we all know that once they make a decision, boy, they don’t back down.  That he had been the guy that had arranged to have all the warmers replaced en-masse wasn’t a factor in his decision, he said.  The lawyer told him that “admitting” fault by taking action might not be the best approach, after all, he explained, we live in a litigious society.  So having made his decision....he moved on...but the problem, without resolution, didn’t.

What escaped that Decider was that coffee warmer problems didn’t rise to the level of the Exec. Offices ever before and he was right to ask why in this case.  Buried way back in the second page of that report was a great big ALARM on the part of the drafter.  Seems that Mc people spill coffee on themselves all the time and they don’t go to the emergency room for treatment or get a few days/weeks off to recuperate.  Not till recently.  Also there was an interest expressed by OSHA (pronounced “OH MY GOD”).  Also it was noted that MC was paying for patrons trips to the ER for treatment and antibiotics that are a precaution for serious burns.  The drafter was worried and made a really hot(no pun here) report that he sent to the head shed.

Turned out that this problem had been simmering(no pun intended) for many months in unit (store) managers communications.  There problems were more than a couple.  Seemed that their coffee warmers had been replaced a while back and since that event there had been trouble in Mc city.  Firstly, the warmers were scorching the coffee in 15 minutes so the staff had to make lots more pots to assuage the offended customers and that affected the bottom line and impacted the man hour requirements for staffing.  Secondly, the managers were losing staff for recuperation time and, adding insult to injury(no pun intended), they had to fork over work comp pay.  Thirdly, the State Fuzz was asking questions cause the work comp was partly Gummint funded. I think the “Founding Fathers” of Worker’s Compensation planned it that way to insure reporting but I can’t prove that.  Fourthly, The insurance company that would pay damages was making noises because their computers had picked up a trend on claims for medical treatment to those injured customers.  Remember them?   Fifthly, the system was SCREAMING to everyone that had ears that there was a problem.  Customers hurt, employees hurt, costs going up, Gummint on line one and the insurance company on line two.  Oh yeah, all coffee had to be dispensed in two paper cups cause one cup was not possible to hold without burning your fingers so coffee cup usage DOUBLED for a corporation that counts things to the hundredth of a cent.  And then it surfaced that there had been numerous Personal Injury (PI) lawsuits that had ALL been settled out of court for chump change.

The DECIDER had decided and he would be darned if he would revisit his decision.  Orders?  Stay the course.

Now in the court case, it was discovered that Mc replaces things en-mass and coffee warmers were purchased by the train car load.  For whatever reasons, it was decided to change the warmers in the South Western region.  That executive, The Decider, remember him,  had conflicting interests in that purchase and had “taken charge” of the acquisition and had personally profited from the purchase.  Happens every day, illegal as all get out, but, it happens every day, nonetheless.  It also was determined that this problem had surfaced as a matter of general corp concern so EVERYBODY in the Head Shed had heard about it..formally!

With all these flash fires brewing (no pun intended), what is a good Exec to do?  Turns out the answer is “NOTHING” and sign your name to it boldly. BUT, BUT, BUT people are really getting burned up (no pun intended)about this. Nonetheless, STAY THE COURSE!

Enter stage right: A lady in a sharp coupe at the drivers window that has ordered a smallish Mc and a cup of coffee....make that a large coffee, thank you.  The clerk has been given orders that they are to cut down on the excessive use of cups and they are to go back to using “one single cup” per serving.  He handed the nice lady her burger and then, fingers holding the cup between the lidded rim and bottom so as to not burn himself, he handed the unsuspecting woman her COFFEE with the admonition “careful, its hot”.  She barely got the cup inside the car when she let out a yelp and dropped it.....in her lap.....where the lid instantly popped off....dumping the LARGE COFFEE between her legs.  Screaming in agony, she tried to raise up and let the coffee run under her but she was wearing a seat belt and couldn’t raise.  She was wearing a frilly little summer weight  frock and had on those almost nothing drawers that the ladies so cherish. Almost nothing between her and her spilt coffee.  There she sat on those leatherette seats that wouldn’t leak a drop with sixteen ounces of scalding going on in her lap.  She spread her legs because she was being burned in her inner thigh.  Spreading exposed more of her “lips” and her clit.  She received third degree scald burns over the top half of her “lips” and her clit and the small “lips” were completely burned away.  The parts that weren’t burned away were all scar tissue at one point and she was denuded of most of her pubic hair.  She had extensive skin grafts to her thighs and private parts that were needed to regain full mobility/movement.  After all the surgeries she still needed copious quantities of physical therapy and “Shrink” sessions to the max.  And you know how Shrinks like to burn(no pun intended) a innocent but careless victim of a client.

Remember the “scorched” coffee that went bad in fifteen minutes?  Turns out those warmers had a thermostat in them that was set to between 200 and 205 degrees Fahrenheit.  Coffee is typically served at 140 degrees and it had been prior to this last equipment upgrade.  People slopped coffee on themselves all the time back then but never needed medical attention.  That was the first flag that something was amiss....hurt work force.

I saw that lady on a late night talk show.  She was a very nice looking early 40's...no flash, just very nice looking.  She confided that part of her damages were that without a clit she had lost interest in sex.  She also shared that the scar tissue that remained had made sex a painful experience that she now avoided.  She said she felt bad for herself but she was equally saddened for her husband.  I seem to remember that the Moslems circumcise their women so that they will not have a sex drive so I guess she wasn’t unique in that regard.

Soooooooo!  Twelve men and women that weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty heard the evidence.  They were appalled at the callous disregard for everyone’s well fare that Mc had demonstrated.  They heard testimony and saw evidence in the form of internal memos and letters that confirmed that Mc did well know that there was a serious problem involving public and employee safety for a long, long time.  They were shown where the problem could have been resolved at many turns of event but was systematically “kept on course”.  They also learned that an unscrupulous and irresponsible jerk of a self inflated executive was probably trying to avoid making his back room deals known to his corporate superiors.  The story was sordid and sad and very long.  Long because there was so much evidence for the woman’s lawyer to present.


They, the jury,  were also disappointed that Mc had rejected her appeals for help with medical bills, first by her and then by her attorney.  Numerous requests!  Stay the course.

It is easy to understand why Mc would have to pay medical damages, by me anyway.  The part that was up in the air was “How Much for Punitive Damage?”.  As you can imagine, the millions that Mc poured into this one case in the form of high priced attorneys had a slew of reasons why this woman caused all her own grief.  One interesting conclusion was that she had been the cause of her problems because she could just as easily gone to a “fast food competitor” for her coffee.  Their favorite was that “it’s just not fair.  This is just such a litigious society.  We are being targeted because we have deep pockets.”


It took nearly five years for this to come to trial.  Did she lose her home and go bankrupt with medical bills?  What would you imagine?  Her attorney leapt at the chance to take her case on contingency so she had no legal bills.  While he shared much of his fee with a large law firm that he brought in as partners on the case for the benefit of his client, he did make millions and is quite the plump “winner”. His client applauds his good fortune.

Now if this had been Texas today there would have been a limit to the punitive award of $200K.  Try to get a lawyer excited about suing Mc for that much money.  They have solved their litigious society problem there so lets hear it for the Mc’s of the world. 

Oh well,

John

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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2007, 09:05:42 AM »

So if you know the mileage of a bus, what does it tell you.......Nothing......if that is a gauge of why you buy, you are not a very smart buyer.

Ray D
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2007, 09:27:04 AM »

I have a hot coffee story, but unfortunately I was not smart enough to take advantage of it. It happened many years ago before the Mc coffee and other things got started.

I was returning to Pasadena from northern California on one of the local airlines. I was in the middle seat in tourist and the stewardess was serving a snack.

Instead of placing the cups of coffee on a tray and passing the tray to the passengers, she was holding each cup by the rim (paper cups) and passing them to the passenger. When she passed my cup to me, she released it before I had a good hold on it and it dropped to my lap.
talk about hot.

We had seat belts on and there was another passenger in the outside seat. I scrambled as best I could and finally got out in the aisle and dropped my trousers, but then the damage had already been done. I was scalded with blisters all over everything.

When we arrived at the terminal the airline had called an ambulance and they took me to a local hospital for emergency burn treatment. They also provided a taxi for me from the hospital to my home.

I was off work for several days but everything eventually healed up with no long term damage.

I really do not know why I did not contact a lawyer and sue, but guess I was just too dumb. Do not really know. BTW, this happened in the mid 80's.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
tekebird
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2007, 09:42:30 AM »

Johnsons' Bus Service of PA, Now Defunct, had  a coffee incident passenger brought her own coffee on board, and spilled it on herself ( while stationary I think.

better than a 100k out of court settlement by the ins company.


Mileage really does matter, same as it does in buying a used car.  it is a indicator of many things in most cases.  With any vehicle, new or used you have no idea on if some iddiot put coolant into the oil fill and drove it for a few hundred miles or more.

What I suggest ids if you know or have had access to knowing mileage and or maint records...divulge them.  True Sell as is with a signed disclaimer in the Sales Agreement.  Not divulging this info gives the impression of shadeyness IMHO.

Go to ABC, Michaud, even MCI or Prevost Used Bus Departments you will likely know what you are buying.

This Knowledge of mileage and who the PO was demands a higher price even if it is a false peice of mind.

the 102 A3 I recently bought ( Converted from new by custom coach does not have complete records from day one on maint or total coach mileage.......but it did have documented Engine and Transmission rebuild 70k ago......

All of you know what this is worth if you were to have it done......so it had a direct relation to the price I was willing to pay.

It is no different that looking at the date codes on tires.

Several years ago I sold a Flxible Flxliner.  It had 1960's vintage Nylon Tires on it.....No Sidewall checking....was sold as is......GUy drove it from PA to CA Dirrect.  Would I have suggested he do it...No...Told him I would replace the tires.  Of course this was in Fall so Temps were not a concern as Temp is what causes most tire failures.

the mack that Just laft our custodial Control for OH had 1960's vintage rubber on it...again no sidewall issues or other visible signs of distress.

New owner is very vehicle ( Big Truck Savy with Several Large Comanies ( read worth lots of money)).

He sent out two new Tires for the Steers and I had them mounted along with a basic PM/Fluid Change.
5 hours home Direct at 80mph.  No Issues.

Then there are examples of tires with date codes that show a few months old  Run Underinflatted for a bit....which caused them to heat up.

Problem was found tire reinflatted to specs........Tire fails shortly thereafter.  BUT IT WAS A NEW TIRE!

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