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Author Topic: What does it mean when they say " For Leagle reasons, we cannot give miles  (Read 2311 times)
tekebird
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2007, 10:01:47 AM »

Mileage is  subjective anyway really, it just is a nice reference.

a rebuilkd with 100k on it can go bas  for any number of reasons...., might not fail for another 50k but damage can be done by a number of neglected things.



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Hi yo silver
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2007, 06:54:12 PM »

I say you should hire a competent lawyer, have him write a disclaimer you can have your purchasers sign, stating that there are no guarantees, period.  The bus is sold as is, etc, yada, yada.....
Then, if you are treatened with a lawsuit, offer to give him your first born, go home and kill your dog, and maybe give him your old lady.  Maybe that'll shut 'em up!  He! He!
Dennis
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JohnEd
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2007, 09:33:37 PM »

Takebird,

The McDonald’s “Hot Coffee Story” is one of my absolute favorites and Thank Yew for bringing it up.  This tale is spun from all the reports in Time, News week etc.. and all the daily newspapers I used to read as a diversion while traveling seven months out of the year.  Also, I used to have a drinking circle that was composed of eight or ten attorneys at any given time.  They were entertaining and only a couple were rich and nearly all drank Scotch or Royal Crown in copious quantities.  It is an understatement that I have taken literary licence but all the salient facts are there.  You can reassemble this tale if you just go to the public library and ask the research librarian to help you do a subject search of periodicals and newsprint for the subject Mc.......coffee.....real hot.  Take maybe a couple of hours for a thorough read and then you will have your own tail(no pun intended).  Written as is, where was and so forth.

Once upon a time, long ago, in a corp. executive offices suite there was a VP with time on his hands and a Corp Lawyer in his ear.  The rumbling he was hearing was from “the field” and it concerned employee injuries attributed to hot coffee spills.  It seemed logical to him that if some minimum pay slob spilled hot coffee on him/her self they would be burned, er injured.  So why bother him with this BS was his question?  Seems that the proposed fix was to replace “all” the coffee warmers in , oh say, all of California, Az. And Nev.  While he did not read the report, too busy, he did have the temerity to make a executive decision to “DISAPPROVED” the proposal.  He was “The Decider”.  He was also now in the loop as the “go to guy” on the warmer problem.  He had a executive size ego and we all know that once they make a decision, boy, they don’t back down.  That he had been the guy that had arranged to have all the warmers replaced en-masse wasn’t a factor in his decision, he said.  The lawyer told him that “admitting” fault by taking action might not be the best approach, after all, he explained, we live in a litigious society.  So having made his decision....he moved on...but the problem, without resolution, didn’t.

What escaped that Decider was that coffee warmer problems didn’t rise to the level of the Exec. Offices ever before and he was right to ask why in this case.  Buried way back in the second page of that report was a great big ALARM on the part of the drafter.  Seems that Mc people spill coffee on themselves all the time and they don’t go to the emergency room for treatment or get a few days/weeks off to recuperate.  Not till recently.  Also there was an interest expressed by OSHA (pronounced “OH MY GOD”).  Also it was noted that MC was paying for patrons trips to the ER for treatment and antibiotics that are a precaution for serious burns.  The drafter was worried and made a really hot(no pun here) report that he sent to the head shed.

Turned out that this problem had been simmering(no pun intended) for many months in unit (store) managers communications.  There problems were more than a couple.  Seemed that their coffee warmers had been replaced a while back and since that event there had been trouble in Mc city.  Firstly, the warmers were scorching the coffee in 15 minutes so the staff had to make lots more pots to assuage the offended customers and that affected the bottom line and impacted the man hour requirements for staffing.  Secondly, the managers were losing staff for recuperation time and, adding insult to injury(no pun intended), they had to fork over work comp pay.  Thirdly, the State Fuzz was asking questions cause the work comp was partly Gummint funded. I think the “Founding Fathers” of Worker’s Compensation planned it that way to insure reporting but I can’t prove that.  Fourthly, The insurance company that would pay damages was making noises because their computers had picked up a trend on claims for medical treatment to those injured customers.  Remember them?   Fifthly, the system was SCREAMING to everyone that had ears that there was a problem.  Customers hurt, employees hurt, costs going up, Gummint on line one and the insurance company on line two.  Oh yeah, all coffee had to be dispensed in two paper cups cause one cup was not possible to hold without burning your fingers so coffee cup usage DOUBLED for a corporation that counts things to the hundredth of a cent.  And then it surfaced that there had been numerous Personal Injury (PI) lawsuits that had ALL been settled out of court for chump change.

The DECIDER had decided and he would be darned if he would revisit his decision.  Orders?  Stay the course.

Now in the court case, it was discovered that Mc replaces things en-mass and coffee warmers were purchased by the train car load.  For whatever reasons, it was decided to change the warmers in the South Western region.  That executive, The Decider, remember him,  had conflicting interests in that purchase and had “taken charge” of the acquisition and had personally profited from the purchase.  Happens every day, illegal as all get out, but, it happens every day, nonetheless.  It also was determined that this problem had surfaced as a matter of general corp concern so EVERYBODY in the Head Shed had heard about it..formally!

With all these flash fires brewing (no pun intended), what is a good Exec to do?  Turns out the answer is “NOTHING” and sign your name to it boldly. BUT, BUT, BUT people are really getting burned up (no pun intended)about this. Nonetheless, STAY THE COURSE!

Enter stage right: A lady in a sharp coupe at the drivers window that has ordered a smallish Mc and a cup of coffee....make that a large coffee, thank you.  The clerk has been given orders that they are to cut down on the excessive use of cups and they are to go back to using “one single cup” per serving.  He handed the nice lady her burger and then, fingers holding the cup between the lidded rim and bottom so as to not burn himself, he handed the unsuspecting woman her COFFEE with the admonition “careful, its hot”.  She barely got the cup inside the car when she let out a yelp and dropped it.....in her lap.....where the lid instantly popped off....dumping the LARGE COFFEE between her legs.  Screaming in agony, she tried to raise up and let the coffee run under her but she was wearing a seat belt and couldn’t raise.  She was wearing a frilly little summer weight  frock and had on those almost nothing drawers that the ladies so cherish. Almost nothing between her and her spilt coffee.  There she sat on those leatherette seats that wouldn’t leak a drop with sixteen ounces of scalding going on in her lap.  She spread her legs because she was being burned in her inner thigh.  Spreading exposed more of her “lips” and her clit.  She received third degree scald burns over the top half of her “lips” and her clit and the small “lips” were completely burned away.  The parts that weren’t burned away were all scar tissue at one point and she was denuded of most of her pubic hair.  She had extensive skin grafts to her thighs and private parts that were needed to regain full mobility/movement.  After all the surgeries she still needed copious quantities of physical therapy and “Shrink” sessions to the max.  And you know how Shrinks like to burn(no pun intended) a innocent but careless victim of a client.

Remember the “scorched” coffee that went bad in fifteen minutes?  Turns out those warmers had a thermostat in them that was set to between 200 and 205 degrees Fahrenheit.  Coffee is typically served at 140 degrees and it had been prior to this last equipment upgrade.  People slopped coffee on themselves all the time back then but never needed medical attention.  That was the first flag that something was amiss....hurt work force.

I saw that lady on a late night talk show.  She was a very nice looking early 40's...no flash, just very nice looking.  She confided that part of her damages were that without a clit she had lost interest in sex.  She also shared that the scar tissue that remained had made sex a painful experience that she now avoided.  She said she felt bad for herself but she was equally saddened for her husband.  I seem to remember that the Moslems circumcise their women so that they will not have a sex drive so I guess she wasn’t unique in that regard.

Soooooooo!  Twelve men and women that weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty heard the evidence.  They were appalled at the callous disregard for everyone’s well fare that Mc had demonstrated.  They heard testimony and saw evidence in the form of internal memos and letters that confirmed that Mc did well know that there was a serious problem involving public and employee safety for a long, long time.  They were shown where the problem could have been resolved at many turns of event but was systematically “kept on course”.  They also learned that an unscrupulous and irresponsible jerk of a self inflated executive was probably trying to avoid making his back room deals known to his corporate superiors.  The story was sordid and sad and very long.  Long because there was so much evidence for the woman’s lawyer to present.


They, the jury,  were also disappointed that Mc had rejected her appeals for help with medical bills, first by her and then by her attorney.  Numerous requests!  Stay the course.

It is easy to understand why Mc would have to pay medical damages, by me anyway.  The part that was up in the air was “How Much for Punitive Damage?”.  As you can imagine, the millions that Mc poured into this one case in the form of high priced attorneys had a slew of reasons why this woman caused all her own grief.  One interesting conclusion was that she had been the cause of her problems because she could just as easily gone to a “fast food competitor” for her coffee.  Their favorite was that “it’s just not fair.  This is just such a litigious society.  We are being targeted because we have deep pockets.”


It took nearly five years for this to come to trial.  Did she lose her home and go bankrupt with medical bills?  What would you imagine?  Her attorney leapt at the chance to take her case on contingency so she had no legal bills.  While he shared much of his fee with a large law firm that he brought in as partners on the case for the benefit of his client, he did make millions and is quite the plump “winner”. His client applauds his good fortune.

Now if this had been Texas today there would have been a limit to the punitive award of $200K.  Try to get a lawyer excited about suing Mc for that much money.  They have solved their litigious society problem there so lets hear it for the Mc’s of the world. 

Oh well,

John

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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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Ray D
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2007, 09:05:42 AM »

So if you know the mileage of a bus, what does it tell you.......Nothing......if that is a gauge of why you buy, you are not a very smart buyer.

Ray D
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2007, 09:27:04 AM »

I have a hot coffee story, but unfortunately I was not smart enough to take advantage of it. It happened many years ago before the Mc coffee and other things got started.

I was returning to Pasadena from northern California on one of the local airlines. I was in the middle seat in tourist and the stewardess was serving a snack.

Instead of placing the cups of coffee on a tray and passing the tray to the passengers, she was holding each cup by the rim (paper cups) and passing them to the passenger. When she passed my cup to me, she released it before I had a good hold on it and it dropped to my lap.
talk about hot.

We had seat belts on and there was another passenger in the outside seat. I scrambled as best I could and finally got out in the aisle and dropped my trousers, but then the damage had already been done. I was scalded with blisters all over everything.

When we arrived at the terminal the airline had called an ambulance and they took me to a local hospital for emergency burn treatment. They also provided a taxi for me from the hospital to my home.

I was off work for several days but everything eventually healed up with no long term damage.

I really do not know why I did not contact a lawyer and sue, but guess I was just too dumb. Do not really know. BTW, this happened in the mid 80's.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
tekebird
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2007, 09:42:30 AM »

Johnsons' Bus Service of PA, Now Defunct, had  a coffee incident passenger brought her own coffee on board, and spilled it on herself ( while stationary I think.

better than a 100k out of court settlement by the ins company.


Mileage really does matter, same as it does in buying a used car.  it is a indicator of many things in most cases.  With any vehicle, new or used you have no idea on if some iddiot put coolant into the oil fill and drove it for a few hundred miles or more.

What I suggest ids if you know or have had access to knowing mileage and or maint records...divulge them.  True Sell as is with a signed disclaimer in the Sales Agreement.  Not divulging this info gives the impression of shadeyness IMHO.

Go to ABC, Michaud, even MCI or Prevost Used Bus Departments you will likely know what you are buying.

This Knowledge of mileage and who the PO was demands a higher price even if it is a false peice of mind.

the 102 A3 I recently bought ( Converted from new by custom coach does not have complete records from day one on maint or total coach mileage.......but it did have documented Engine and Transmission rebuild 70k ago......

All of you know what this is worth if you were to have it done......so it had a direct relation to the price I was willing to pay.

It is no different that looking at the date codes on tires.

Several years ago I sold a Flxible Flxliner.  It had 1960's vintage Nylon Tires on it.....No Sidewall checking....was sold as is......GUy drove it from PA to CA Dirrect.  Would I have suggested he do it...No...Told him I would replace the tires.  Of course this was in Fall so Temps were not a concern as Temp is what causes most tire failures.

the mack that Just laft our custodial Control for OH had 1960's vintage rubber on it...again no sidewall issues or other visible signs of distress.

New owner is very vehicle ( Big Truck Savy with Several Large Comanies ( read worth lots of money)).

He sent out two new Tires for the Steers and I had them mounted along with a basic PM/Fluid Change.
5 hours home Direct at 80mph.  No Issues.

Then there are examples of tires with date codes that show a few months old  Run Underinflatted for a bit....which caused them to heat up.

Problem was found tire reinflatted to specs........Tire fails shortly thereafter.  BUT IT WAS A NEW TIRE!

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