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Author Topic: My new ramps...  (Read 3892 times)
Ross
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« on: May 28, 2006, 02:04:44 PM »

Of course working under the bus required building some ramps, so I used the method mentioned by Jerry in his post on ramps (might have been over on BNO).  Here are some photos.  They are 18" wide which is wide enough to get the rear duals on.  I used 2x8 PT and 3/8" threaded rod.  I used the handtruck to get them out to the bus, then as a stop guide once the ramps were set.



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86neoplan
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 02:06:42 PM »

How high are they? They look aresome, and I sure could use a set for home...

I use the ones we have at work, but they arent for duals


shawn
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Proud single custodial dad to a wonderful 14 year old son, Owner of a 1986 Neoplan 26' transit Bus AN408, Great weekender...Lots of work to come on this bus, can't wait to get her done! 8.2L with a Allison AT545...
Ross
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 02:15:01 PM »

2x8, so 7 1/2".  I can stack another couple of 2x's where the tire sits to get it higher, but it's not really nessessary.  Here's where I got the idea...

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=469.0
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jlaney
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2006, 02:32:32 PM »

ramps
why won't cross ties work just well, the new oak ones would last a long time.
just a thought j.t. laney
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j.t. laney  tyler texas 1980 prevost lemirage
Ross
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2006, 02:36:52 PM »

ramps
why won't cross ties work just well, the new oak ones would last a long time.
just a thought j.t. laney

They probably would, but more difficult to cut and more expensive.  I used twelve 2x8's.  I already had 6, so only had to go buy 6 more.  I had the rod laying around the shop, which is why I went 3/8" and not 1/2".
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NCbob
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2006, 03:29:49 PM »

I'm considering building a pair...but thought that using 2 X 12's would give me the extra lift, just in case the air doesn't hold.

I'm not going to use Pressure Treated lumber 'cause it's too GD heavy!  If they're only 6' long (using 2X12's..minus the kerf) I'd get a lift of 11 5/8".  But being 'frugal' I'd put spacers (same material) between the 2 X 12's at the threaded rods and extend at least 2" beyond
each center line of the through bolts.

That way I could throw them in one of the bays and take 'em with me on the road.  Why haul P/T lumber around when you're not going to need it (because of weather)?  It's probably outlive you! Mine are going to be clean and dry all the time!  Grin
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pvcces
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2006, 06:14:08 PM »

Our experience with pressure treated wood has been that it crushes too easily. I suppose it could be that the producers figure that they can sell wood that would be rejected if they give it a treatment.

The way the building codes are written and enforced around here, the wood used doesn't have to be very good.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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Ketchikan, Alaska
Dallas
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2006, 07:27:07 PM »

The use of Pressure Treated lumber came up on another board not too long ago.
I'll repeat here what I said then and then you can make up your own mind about it's use.

Much of the Pressure treated lumber that is sold today is made from Southern Yellow pine, which, as a building material isn't real high in the structural strength department. Usually what happens is that the SYP is quick grown and has very large growth rings and a loose core.
If you'll notice when you go to your local box store, the PT stuff is actually the core of a log which means that the board is taken as close to a complete cross section.
While this is great for a deck or a plate to put against concrete, over a period of time, with lots of weight being put on it and taken off, the core will seperate as it dries out. I personally wouldn't want to be under a piece of heavy equipment when it does that.
Kiln dried SPF (Spruce-Pine-Fir), is much, much stronger.
When I use to deliver to some really old multi story warehouses, huge forklifts would go from one floor to the next with loads in excess of 2500 to 5000 pounds, plus their own weight which was probably around 10,000 pounds.
The floors they were running on were nothing more than KD SPF 2X12 on 24" centers, plus a subfloor plus a finished floor. Loading per joist must have been tremendous, but these buildings had stood for decades.

I've seen PTL dry, warp and disinegrate. Sure it doesn't rot, but, like Bob said earlier, KD SPF isn't going to be used in the rain snow and mud, or at least not often enogh to hurt it.

As another thought, for all the welders out there, test yourself, build a set of ramps like a roof or bridge truss using something like bed frame rails. I figure I can pick up 8 sets of rails without too much trouble and that wouldn't be too far off from what a set of steel ramps would weigh.
Or how about making them from square tube aluminum? I've seen them drive Bradleys up on some like that.

Ok, my thinking box is done now,
Have fun,
Do it YOUR way,
But PLEASE, PLEASE, BE SAFE!

Dallas
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Sojourner
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2006, 08:13:28 PM »

Thanks for sharing your project. 2 X 8 is fine as long it please you...of course it lighter.

3/8 threaded rod would be minimum....however the wider ramp's span equal more ground cover to share the bus's weigh...meaning threaded rods are doing more pulling effort (tension) to pull apart with heavy load single wheel….but dual is OK.

So if it were mine I replace bottom double row with 1/2 inch rod for your safety on soft sandy footing.

It 3/8 inch should be OK on 4 inch reinforced cement flooring.

About treated wood...you don't need it unless in water everyday.

Somewhere in Wisconsin is buried…..point 4 or higher pressure treated post in ground since 1930s…still check ok.

If it more sun than water soak…it not going to last long. Treated will eventually lose its dry chemical & cracks.

Thanks Ross for sharing.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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Buffalo SpaceShip
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2006, 10:18:13 PM »

Dallas, I'm sorry to be contentious, but I must correct your statement the SYP is somehow structurally inferior, and considered less desirable than SPF. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a licensed architect, and have to size beams, columns and various other structural members regularly, so I know quite a bit about structural wood design.

Perhaps you just got your species reversed. Because, as a softwood species, SYP beats out nearly every other species in any of the meaningful design values (fiber stress, mod. of elasticity, compression and tension values, etc.). In fact, when SYP is available to a designer (it's harder to get out West), it often allows beams of smaller dimensions (and/or greater spans) than what Douglas Fir would require. A design using SPF wouldn't even come close to either a SYP or DF solution.

The compression values are the only ones to concern ourselves with when building ramps, but SYP #1 has a value of 1650 psi vs. SPF #1's 1105 psi.

Here's a comparison chart of a certain graded joist in various species available: http://www.southernpine.com/speciescomparisons2x8.shtml

While I won't disagree that PT wood can be a pain to work with and has difficulty with bowing, cupping, "banana" syndrome, etc., this is mostly because in its rush from the mill to the lumberyard, many suppliers don't allow sufficient drying time. It's also heavy as heck, because of the preservatives. But for a wood in regular contact with the ground (like ramps), I'd at least treat dimensional lumber with Thompson’s or some other preservative if I wasn't going to use PT.

Thanks,
Brian Brown
Longmont, CO
4108-216
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Brian Brown
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hturner12
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2006, 10:37:31 PM »

Hello everyone
I just join this forum, however I am a member of a couple of the wanderlodge forums on Yahoo. A similar discussion is taking placing one one of them except it deals with jack stands and levlers. The idea of ramps sound greats in reading
 this post and the post for the 2x12 ramps there was one comment that concerned me and that was" if the air system goes down". There have been some wandelodge owners killed thinking the levlers would hold the bus if the air went down. It did and thee did not his widow sold the bus. the safest thing would be to add enough height to be able to dump the air to prevent the if it fails.

Hugh turner
Thomaston Ga
Looking for My Wanderlodge of Conversion
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2006, 02:46:23 AM »

will repost when I get some sleep. I've been up about 36 hrs and keep falling a sleep at the mouse!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 05:37:06 AM by Busted Knuckle » Logged

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Dallas
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2006, 04:03:25 AM »

Dallas, I'm sorry to be contentious, but I must correct your statement the SYP is somehow structurally inferior, and considered less desirable than SPF. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a licensed architect, and have to size beams, columns and various other structural members regularly, so I know quite a bit about structural wood design.
Perhaps you just got your species reversed. Because, as a softwood species, SYP beats out nearly every other species in any of the meaningful design values (fiber stress, mod. of elasticity, compression and tension values, etc.). In fact, when SYP is available to a designer (it's harder to get out West), it often allows beams of smaller dimensions (and/or greater spans) than what Douglas Fir would require. A design using SPF wouldn't even come close to either a SYP or DF solution.

The compression values are the only ones to concern ourselves with when building ramps, but SYP #1 has a value of 1650 psi vs. SPF #1's 1105 psi.

Here's a comparison chart of a certain graded joist in various species available: http://http://www.southernpine.com/speciescomparisons2x8.shtml

While I won't disagree that PT wood can be a pain to work with and has difficulty with bowing, cupping, "banana" syndrome, etc., this is mostly because in its rush from the mill to the lumberyard, many suppliers don't allow sufficient drying time. It's also heavy as heck, because of the preservatives. But for a wood in regular contact with the ground (like ramps), I'd at least treat dimensional lumber with Thompson’s or some other preservative if I wasn't going to use PT.

Thanks,
Brian Brown
Longmont, CO
4108-216



Brian,
No problem. That's what this board is all about, the free exchange of ideas and experiences.
The SYP your getting in Colorado may be greatly superior to what we get here in the Carolinas.
Most of what we see here is heart wood, not much better than landscape timber.
Also, many of the tree farms here harvest full sized logs in 25 years. Growth rings may be as much as an inch across.
As an example of the low quality available here, last fall we had to build six sets of steps for various rental campers here.
The boss went to the Big Blue Box and purchased a bundle of still wet 2X6 PTL. Since that time, we've had the center core come out of 2 or 3 of them, 2X12 stringers have broken on 3 of them and most of them are warped.
Another consideration is that there are differing grades of PTL and SYP. What we get here seems to be of a quality that is greatly inferior to what is shipped to the rest of the country.

I was thinking about this last night to and wondered why you couldn't use Cypress?
It's strong, rot resistant, and around here, pretty easily obtained.
It's so rot resistant as a matter of fact, that some cypress logs were recently found buried in the sand in North Carolina that had been blown down by a hurricane over 4,000 years ago.
Now the company that found them is selling lumber from those trees for $1,000 (yep, THOUSAND) per square foot.

Dallas
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JackConrad
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2006, 04:10:25 AM »

  I am not an architect, but I do know that at least in Florida, all roof trusses are made from untreated Southern Yellow Pine.  SPF is allowed (and prefered) for studs and beams. I installed a floor in a flatbed I made for my old pick-up using treated 2x8 SYP. I had to beat the last piece into place when installed. 2 years later and sitting in the sun everyday, the wood shrunk to the point there is now a space of about 1 1/2-2". This amount of shrinkage occured in a 80" width.
   The chemical used in pressure treating is a liquid and the boards are immersed in the chemicasl under pressure to insure that the chemical throughly soaks into the wood. This wood is so wet that I have felt the mist hit my face and had small droplets appear on my glasses when cutting it. As this liquid dries the boards will crack, split, and warp.  Jack
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2006, 10:26:23 PM »

I think the differences in SYP and SPF that have been mentioned above has to do with the GRADE of lumber being used - SYP is in fact structurally stronger than the SAME GRADE of SPF - SYP is many almost always specified for structural members here in Fla in order to comply with the new wind load standards imposed by the Fla building code - As far as Heart PIne goes it is the denses type of Pine I know of - there a homes built with Heart Pine in Fla that are more than 100 years old , never treated for termites, that have no termite penetration and no rot - True that PT lumber can have a high moisture content, but this is due to the fact that the cheaper suppliers of PT lumber do not kiln dry (try using Robbins Grade 1 PT lumber), but air dry the lumber and ship it too fast expecting it to dry "in the field" - In florida "the sauna state" the relative humidity is so high that drying does not occur in the outside storage bins, and is used too quick to cure naturally - Not to worry though, old PT has been outlawed and when the new Osmose (and others) come on line the process should provide for lighter SYP- also don't bank on Cypress it is way less structurally superior than SYP, and no where near as dense, and its NOT resistant to termites (don;t ask me how I know) - FWIW
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