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Author Topic: Would you spend the $1000.00  (Read 2386 times)
Paso One
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« on: December 15, 2007, 04:57:32 PM »

Hi Guys  I have a 6V71 out of 77 5307 donor bus that I bought for the  V730  trans for my bus.
This bus came out of service 6 months before I got it.
I took the complete carrier assembly from the bus and set it on my car hauler it has been sitting on my trailer all tarped up.
The $1000.00 question is the local diesel shop will take the motor  off my trailer and hook it up to their dyno machine and run the "complete test " on it's condition for $1000.00.
I have already done a oil anylsis and it came back okay.

The thing I arguing with myself is if it is a good motor I will at least know it is good, or if it is Junk I can part it out and get rid of the carcus. and get my car hauler back.
If I ever need a good motor I'd have a spare. Or if I was to sell it I at least have a dyno report for the prospective buyer.
I'm sure if I sell it the new owner would be willing to pay at least $500.00 more knowing the dyno specs.  or would they Huh  Would you???
The down side if I spend the $$ and find out it is NFG. Is it worth it.??

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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
6V71  V730 4:10
Green-Hornet
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 05:14:51 PM »

I would do it if I was going to be using it soon. Problem is, if the engine checks out and you let it sit for a year or so, problems could develop and you might have to do it all over. If the oil came back OK, I might try to bump the starter and check compression or maybe put it on life support and see if it runs. Just my $.02.
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Paso One
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 05:53:14 PM »

I am pretty confident that it runs. I would  just like to know how strong it is.  I'm not afraid of storing the engine if it is good as I can pickle it so everything is preserved.

If it turns out to be strong I could possibly get them to change the timing to "A" timing and bump up the injectors  to N65 while it is still on the dyno and run it again.

This could possibly save me from spending all my money on rebuilding the 8V71 that is sitting on the front of the trailer. ( current plan )

I'm happy with the performance of the 6V71 that is currently in the bus now but I wanted to switch to the 3 speed tranny at the same time as swapping in the 8v but the $20,000 overhaul cost estimate is making me think why spend that much.

I can just put the three speed on my current motor and spend the $ 15,000 on fuel driving it. or swap the test engine if it turns out to be better.
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
6V71  V730 4:10
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 06:02:53 PM »

Well in my opinion (which if you add $1.79 to you can buy a cup of coffee! LOL!) if you have the engine tested and it turns out to be bad it's the best $1,000.00 investment made. Because if it's bad you just saved way over $1,000.00 worth of head & heart aches! Not to mention time & labor of 2 swaps! On the other hand if you test it and it turns out to be good, you just wasted $1,000.00 on a sound piece of mind! In other words how much $ is your time, labor, and piece of mind worth? I'd do it!
Grin  BK  Grin
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tekebird
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2007, 06:04:53 PM »


I'm happy with the performance of the 6V71 that is currently in the bus now but I wanted to switch to the 3 speed tranny at the same time as swapping in the 8v but the $20,000 overhaul cost estimate is making me think why spend that much.

I can just put the three speed on my current motor and spend the $ 15,000 on fuel driving it. or swap the test engine if it turns out to be better.

My God, a voice of reason........LOL

Not too often we hear this train of thought on here.

Most of the time is how big and how souped up of a powerplant can I cram in there to get an extra 25HP so I can go 3.4 MPH faster up 'X" grade
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gm4106
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2007, 06:16:10 PM »

Well spoken words Busted Knuckle.  But I think the $1.79 for the cup coffee is best spent.
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2007, 09:17:55 PM »

It seems the choice is between money and desire.  If you are happy with your current engine and just want to add a transmission, that is all you have to do.  If you want to boost the power at the same time, you could put a different engine in.  Spending $20,000. is a powerful commitment (to me at least), so I would seriously weigh what I am getting in return.  My attitude toward the 6v would probably be to sell it.  If I needed one in the future, I would expect that I could get one.  If that were the case, I would feel that I was merely storing it in someone else's yard for free.  I had this habit of buying things at the hardware store that I figured I might need in the future.  Now I don't, and I even return the things that I overbought on.  I look at it as if I'm storing the stuff at the hardware store and, as an added bonus, will actually know where it is when I want it.  Further, if you do the dyno test and the engine is good, you stated that you will only get half the cost back in selling it.  If it is bad, you will have to disclose it and lower the price accordingly.  It seems that the engine is therefore at peak sales value just as it is.  Another thing is if you test it, it is good, you keep it, but decide not to use it yourself now, you may be limiting your future engine replacement options merely because you have a spare.
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tekebird
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2007, 10:30:16 PM »

Lin,

I made my comment because regularly there is someone wanting to repower to get alot more HP out of the mill.

Now anything can be dne with enough money skill expertise and luck.....but more often than not it turns into a cooling nightmare.

Of all the repowered buses that I know of that were sold following the repower, I would guesstim ate that 80% were hard to keep cool with a few that wouldn't keep kool in the most moderate heat.

Additionally, a few more HP dos not really mean that much on a 25+ thousand pound vehicle.  maybe a few MPH and the ability to drive 100 yrds further up a grade before a shift.

since most of us do not drive 10hrs a day 340 days a year the lost time from a slow bus on grades is hardly worth the effort thinking about a repower.

the example I always uses is driving from PA to CA in my Pickup vs in my 6-71 powered 4104 towing the same truck loaded with two motorcycles.  something like 2 hours difference in time and some of that was likely becasue I don;t drive the bus and eat....and it takes longer to fuel ( I don't generally use the truck fills)

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wvanative
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 10:45:10 PM »

BK is right, you have two ways to go here. You put it in your bus as is, spend all the hours to do the swap + the cost of the swap, take it out and test it yourself, and it might seem to run good but in the back of your mind you will never be sure, and you'll never have peace of mind about it.

Or you spend the $1000.00 to have it tested, and you will know what you have, and if it's good you'll have peace of mind, and if it is bad, you'll know that it's bad, and move on

It's like everyone says, have a bus inspected before you spend $20.000 to buy it, and then you find out it's a peace of junk. the same should apply to the engine and trans which is the heart and soul of your bus, and you will be depending on it to work hard for you for a long time.

I know when the time comes to buy my bus, I'll be having BK to go and have a good look at it first. before I put any $$$ on the table. Because even if I had to pay BK say a $1000.00 to spend a couple of days going over it, in the long run it could save me ten's of thousands of dollars. Just my two cents.

WVaNative

 
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Dean Hamilton Villa Grove, IL East Central IL. Near Champaign
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Paso One
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2007, 08:27:56 AM »

Thanks Guys for the good advice.

BK Your comments are bang on my thinking and exactly why I am pondering this.

 One of the reasons I originally bought the 5307 other than the trans was I wanted to have a spare engine "ready to go" if I ever needed it. (  it's just my way old Boy Scout thinking  be prepared)

Tekebird your comments really sway my "where I was going"  thinking with the 8V71 My idea was rebuilding the engine & trans so I had a reliable power train that could be swapped out to another bus if I ever decided to get a differant bus.

Lin I was not wanting to sell the the 6V ever really I just didn't want to "store It" then find out it is not good. I also wouldn't want to sell it not knowing if it was good or bad as if someone bought it they would be faced with BK's scenerio so iI wouldn't want them to go thru that. I wouldn't.

Because I'm in the frozen north and not able to fix when broke. I like having a spare whatever.

If I ever have a Major break down somewhere far from home all I ever have to do is find someone to change the cradle. Finding someone to do that is a lot cheaper than finding the wrong person do do major engine repairs.  I could leave the bus and fly home or take the toad home and drive back with the cradle.

Keep the comments coming I'm interested in what someone would do if they were spending my money.
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
6V71  V730 4:10
Reddog
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2007, 09:03:55 AM »

As you may have gleaned from my conversion resale price question (and thanks for all the replies), I can't get away from keeping an eye on how return on investment. I think that documented confirmation of engine condition (good condition hopefully) is definitely worth something (maybe alot) to many buyers. $1000.00??...on a 50K+ rig, probably. Of course, you could install it and then have it tested for probably less than $1000.
  But is the time, trouble and money going to make that much of a difference in the overall value of the rig...to anyone but you? Hard to say.
  I like more ponies as much as the next guy, maybe more. That is the main reason we some our '81 Wanderlodge. With the NA 3208, we were climbing the passes at 18 MPH, and climbing passes is what we do to go ANYWHERE here. Thomas climbs the same passes at 35-40, big difference, but is sounds to me like we are talking about a considerably smaller increase in power with the sway you are contemplating. Another good question might be what is the fuel economy comparison of the two engines? It's no good to be able to go faster but not be able to afford to go at all because of fuel consumption.
  I say if it runs now, much less runs well, do the tranny and get on the road. I know I can get overcome with the "what if's" and lose focus of what I really want, that is to use the bus.
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larryh
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2007, 09:09:25 AM »

Paseo if it was me being a mechanic over 43 years I would tie down secure on the trailer and make up a gallon fuel tank and hook up a couple of batteries and start it up and see how it sounds and smokes then at least you have that information. May be all the information I wouldn't worry about cooland for the short time you'll be running it.

LarryH
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Paso One
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2007, 12:00:27 PM »

Hi Reddog I'm on the road everything I'm contemplating to do is because I want to do some upgrades:) (you know if it isn't broke do something to make it break.) somebody here has that in there signature.

I guess you saying leave well enough alone Smiley

LarryH  I too was a licensed Mechanic  ( 35 yrs) and have done what you say many times.  I have one question for you tho Why tie it down  Grin  LOL
 
I ran a dyno in the 70's and did a little racing and I really am sold on what a dyno report tells you.

Being a mechanic I'm sure you have seen many motors run so good but couldn't pull your hat off your head.  Also being a mechanic you know we are  inherently cheap I'm no exception.

But as I get older I'm tired of unexpected repairs.  I haven't been able to say preventable maintenace yet knowing how often I said that in my life to customers. lol thanks
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
6V71  V730 4:10
Green-Hornet
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2007, 01:14:16 PM »

I am with Larry on this one still. I am not convinced. If it were my dollar at least, that just testing it to see if it was a sound engine and then leaving it alone until it may be needed, is a better thing than a full blown dyno check. My way you know you have a decent engine to get you out of the woods if you need it. And yer still ahead of the game.
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Sammy
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2007, 04:19:14 PM »

I'm with Larry's plan too.
That's the way to go, save your $1000 for fuel.  Cool
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2007, 04:40:37 PM »


     NO - - - I would use the $1000 for something else, like the
     motor swap including accessories.
                                  Good luck,  Merle
       
      P.S.
           Did you get any records with the donor bus?  That
           would tell a lot.
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2007, 02:03:52 PM »

Well, we agree to disagree or something kinda like that.  How are your mechanic skills?  Do you have the special gismos needed to do a complete tear down (maybe that is the wrong word here---how about take down?) of your new powerplant?  If sooss, and IF you really want to have a winter project, then how abouts you taking your new (to you) Detroit all apart for a detailed look-see?

And...never start a paragraph with a conjunction.  No...wait...what I mean is that then you would know exactly what condition your mighty Detroit is in.  Have fun.  Learn a new skill.  Go back with new bottom end bearings, new rings and maybe a set of rebuilt injectors.  Perhaps bigger ones with "A" timing would be appropriate if you think you need.  Enjoy it.  (and stay warm!)  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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