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Author Topic: double pane glass lost vacuum/gas  (Read 3946 times)
christopher
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« on: May 29, 2006, 06:15:45 PM »

can a glass shop refill/seal a bouble pane window
thanx
chris
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Melbo
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2006, 06:34:40 PM »

There is no way that I know of to "reseal" a thermal pane window

I had a local glass shop make my IG (insulated glass) unit for the door of my MC8

They used tinted laminated glass for the inside and tempered smoked glass for the outside and sealed the unit.

MCI's price over 500 if I remember correctly and their price was 122 and it took about ten days.

I had to take in the original for a sample pattern.

Good Luck  Shop around

Melbo
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Albuquerque, NM   MC8 L10 Cummins ZF
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2006, 07:28:12 PM »

Chris on our H3 Prevost, we had a driver side glass that was double pane and it fogged up real bad and even had water floating back and forth on the bottom that was about a inch deep. I ordered a replacement from Prevost and installed it myself. Not too hard of a job, just messy wioth the sealer.  Funny thing is when I took the old one out and it sat in the back of the explorer for a couple of days, all the moisture and fogging was gone, completely! Now I'm not sure why or what would happen if it were to be installed again but it amazed me that it cleared up so good!

I have one more to replace on the entrance door. It's starting to look pretty shabby!

Ace
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DrDave
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2006, 07:48:34 PM »

If you can figure out how to get it out and cleaned up/dried you may be able to pump it full of argon or neon gas or other low
density gas and reseal it.

Just a thought...
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phil4501
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 10:18:45 PM »

You can reuse the glass and have a new Insulated glass unit made from those. You need to cut both pieces away from the spacer, then send the two pieces of glass, clean, to have a new unit made, just as when it was new. Should save you at least half. More if the glass is fancy with tinting or bends.

Once the unit has failed, even if you seal it, the atomosphere with its moisture is in there and it will fog and condense. It shouldn't take longer than a couple of days to send out since you're not having any glass cut or tempered. Be sure to specify the color of spacer you want. clear, bronze, black, or white

Phil Zisakis

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Melbo
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2006, 09:07:56 PM »

Yes you can reuse the glass

Be sure to measure the thickness of the IG BEFORE taking it apart as this will be important to the people who put it back together.

Melbo
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2006, 08:22:39 AM »

You can reuse the glass and have a new Insulated glass unit made from those. You need to cut both pieces away from the spacer, then send the two pieces of glass, clean, to have a new unit made, just as when it was new. Should save you at least half. More if the glass is fancy with tinting or bends.

Once the unit has failed, even if you seal it, the atomosphere with its moisture is in there and it will fog and condense. It shouldn't take longer than a couple of days to send out since you're not having any glass cut or tempered. Be sure to specify the color of spacer you want. clear, bronze, black, or white

Phil Zisakis



Question, if you know where the leak is, could you heat the unit up, like laying out in the hot sun for a few hours and then seal it. Would that expel all the moisture out?
Richard
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phil4501
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2006, 09:19:03 AM »

If you seal the unit and displace the air with a different gas, or remove the moisture from the air inside, I guess you could. This would not be the easiest or the cheapest way to go. The IG unit did not spring a leak from driving over a nail, it failed. It is time to redo it with all new sealer and spacer. It shouldn't cost much more than $45.00-65.00 if you bring in clean glass ready to go.
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Clarke Echols
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2006, 01:06:20 PM »

can a glass shop refill/seal a bouble pane window
thanx
chris
mci5c

If they have the right equipment, they can.

The trouble with sealed double-pane windows in a coach is the up-and-down from low to high altitude.  If the inner air space isn't 1000% T-totally SEALED, air gets in and out, carrying moisture with it.  The moisture gets left behind at times, and can become quite substantial.

The thermopane (actually that word is a registered trademark, as I recall) structure consists of two panes of dry, clean glass placed on each side of a rectangular metal spacer tube that is filled with dessicant to absorb moisture and located around the entire perimeter of the unit.  A small breather tube is inserted to allow a small amount of air to enter or
escape, then the entire unit is sealed with a coating of butyl rubber all around the outside edge.  The breather tube is left protruding from the butyl, and must be sealed off at installation time.

When installing, the unit is set in place in the frame, rubber or elastomeric blocks are placed between the unit and the bottom of the opening to support the weight, then an elastic caulk is injected around the unit to seal it in place.  The breather tube is crimped shut in several places along the length and covered with sealant/caulk to keep air from getting in or out of the inner air space.  Some manufacturers fill the inner space with dry nitrogen and seal it at the factory if the unit is being installed at the same or close to the same altitude.

In Colorado, units assembled in Denver might be installed in Aspen or other high-altitude locations, and that is the main reason for the pressure-equalizer tube.

The description above is for normal residential applications.

In buses, because they go from low to high altitude, it is important to be able to handle the changes in internal air pressure, relative to outside pressure.  If there is the slightest leak in the seal around the unit, air migrates in and out, leaving moisture behind.  Once the dessicant is saturated, water condenses and collects, leaving an ugly film inside the unit.  Sometimes liquid water can collect and swish back and forth when driving.  This can lead to damage if not properly dealt with.

To fix such units, they must be cut apart, cleaned and dried, and all old adhesives and sealants removed.  They are then reassembled with new separator tubes and dessicant, then new butyl sealant is applied around the outside.  If a shop is set up to do this, it is relatively easy.  It is not easy for a do-it-yourselfer.

Penninsula Glass gets around the pressure problem by drilling a hole in the glass and placing a small pressure-relief valve in
the hole so the owner can press on the valve and equalize the pressure as the coach moves from low to high or high to low altitude.  I have no experience with these, so I don't know how much trouble you could expect over a period of years.  I have toyed with the possibility of surrounding the unit with an aluminum channel, filling the space inside the channel with silicone or urethane caulk/sealant.  It is typically mechanical stress from vibration, wind, and such that breaks the seal and allows insulated glass (IG) units to breathe and collect junk inside the unit.  An extruded metal edge shield would likely eliminate or reduce this problem.

Clarke
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2006, 02:12:28 PM »

can a glass shop refill/seal a bouble pane window
thanx
chris
mci5c

Penninsula Glass gets around the pressure problem by drilling a hole in the glass and placing a small pressure-relief valve in
the hole so the owner can press on the valve and equalize the pressure as the coach moves from low to high or high to low altitude.  I have no experience with these, so I don't know how much trouble you could expect over a period of years.  I have toyed with the possibility of surrounding the unit with an aluminum channel, filling the space inside the channel with silicone or urethane caulk/sealant.  It is typically mechanical stress from vibration, wind, and such that breaks the seal and allows insulated glass (IG) units to breathe and collect junk inside the unit.  An extruded metal edge shield would likely eliminate or reduce this problem.

Clarke

All my front windows were fitted with the small pressure relief valve Clarke mentions. After 15+ years I never saw any indication that moisture had crept in between the panes. I never really understood what the relief valve was for and assumed it was automatic and would open as necessary to relieve excess pressure. I never messed with them.
Richard
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LUKE at US COACH
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2006, 04:00:32 PM »

Hi Chris & Folks:

If you must have double pane glass, then you will have to bite the bullet with regard to replacement cost.

But here is Luke's trick of the day for MCI owners with Double Paned Glass, and we do this in our shop quite often, in fact as recently as last week for a Commercial Customer with a "Cracked" Door Glass on a 96A3.

We have a rubber channel available to convert from Double Pane to Single Pane glass.  With a razor knife, we seperate the 2 pieces of glass (after having removed them from the frame).  We then install the new channel  around the single pane glass, install it back in the metal frame, discard the broken piece of glass and the customer is back on the road.

In a situation like yours Chris, if you chose to go this route, you will have a spare piece of glass, should the single pane ever break!!!

I am talking about a $30.25 channel and some labor to remove, disassembly & reassembly of the glass to frame and back into the coach.

Inexpensive solution for most of our customers and perhaps it would work for you.

I Hope this HELPS!!!

Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to ALL.

LUKE at US COACH
1-888-262-2434
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2006, 07:57:36 PM »

Hi Chris & Folks:

If you must have double pane glass, then you will have to bite the bullet with regard to replacement cost.

But here is Luke's trick of the day for MCI owners with Double Paned Glass, and we do this in our shop quite often, in fact as recently as last week for a Commercial Customer with a "Cracked" Door Glass on a 96A3.

We have a rubber channel available to convert from Double Pane to Single Pane glass.  With a razor knife, we seperate the 2 pieces of glass (after having removed them from the frame).  We then install the new channel  around the single pane glass, install it back in the metal frame, discard the broken piece of glass and the customer is back on the road.

In a situation like yours Chris, if you chose to go this route, you will have a spare piece of glass, should the single pane ever break!!!

I am talking about a $30.25 channel and some labor to remove, disassembly & reassembly of the glass to frame and back into the coach.

Inexpensive solution for most of our customers and perhaps it would work for you.

I Hope this HELPS!!!

Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to ALL.

LUKE at US COACH
1-888-262-2434

Luke,

I'll call you in the AM! Bryce AKA Busted Knuckle!
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