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Author Topic: More Thinking Outside The Box (A.K.A. Hairbrained Idea)  (Read 3212 times)
captain ron
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« on: January 02, 2008, 11:23:21 PM »

Today I mixed the caramel colored thick stuff that settles out of my WVO in the cubies with sawdust and packed it into a cereal box and put it in the wood burning stove in the shop. It burned for 4 hours and put out a great amount of heat and very little ash. I also smelled outside like wood smoked french fries. So unhappy with the $300.00 a month I have to spend heating my bus I decided to build a boiler that will set outside my bus and run off of this concoction. It will tie in to my existing hot water heating system with quick disconnect fittings. We are going in the mourning to start scrounging for parts to build it. The first one will be a proto type and if it works well we will build a really nice one. Wa La free heat. Any input or ideas. I know you train drivers are gonna pipe in with all the safety issues so lets hear it.
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 12:59:13 AM »

Looks like you're gonna have to eat a lot of cereal every winter!

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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 03:24:15 AM »

Move South!!
Good luck with idea, that is how inventions get started.
Gary
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 05:21:21 AM »

Ron  Try something like this My Bixby Corn stove the link to the right on the page.

Opps

« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 05:29:41 AM by Paso One » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 06:34:26 AM »

Today I mixed the caramel colored thick stuff that settles out of my WVO in the cubies with sawdust and packed it into a cereal box and put it in the wood burning stove in the shop. It burned for 4 hours and put out a great amount of heat and very little ash. I also smelled outside like wood smoked french fries. So unhappy with the $300.00 a month I have to spend heating my bus I decided to build a boiler that will set outside my bus and run off of this concoction. It will tie in to my existing hot water heating system with quick disconnect fittings. We are going in the mourning to start scrounging for parts to build it. The first one will be a proto type and if it works well we will build a really nice one. Wa La free heat. Any input or ideas. I know you train drivers are gonna pipe in with all the safety issues so lets hear it.


Charley this is an email I sent to a busnut this week who had the desire to heat his bus with alternative methods.

 Hey ------, I saw your post on the --- site about how to heat your bus with an alternative heat source. I donít like to post on that site so I ask about you on the MAK BOARD. Here is my idea for you to heat your bus in a very economical way. If you have ever saw the outdoor wood burning furnaces made by Central Boiler in MN. I have a friend in MN that heats his entire 2000 sq ft house for about $300 a year in fire wood. Here is why I think this will work for you, and is what I intend to do for my bus. The outdoor furnace has a firebox that is surrounded by a water jacket that is automotive antifreeze, you substitute the automotive antifreeze with the bus antifreeze so you can use it to preheat the engine, And this is then pumped by an electric pump that is feed into the house through highly insulated pipes to small automotive radiators in the house. All of this is controlled by the house thermostat. My friend says he can go 3 to 5 days between loading the furnace depending on the demand for heat. Here is my plan for you, to make a connection   near the engine with two zones, one for the engine and one for the coach heat.  Now you heat the interior of the coach and keep the engine shut off but if you want to fire up the engine you just open the valve to the engine to preheat it before starting. These units are so well insulated that snow on top will not melt when the furnace in fired up, they are very efficient.


Let me know what you think and here is the link to Central Boiler
http://www.centralboiler.com/?src=googlecb&gclid=CI_Txpas0pACFQMsFQod_VsNVw

Dean
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captain ron
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 07:21:15 AM »

Paso, the absolute cheapest corn stove would be $1400.00 and won't heat my water.
Wvnative, I am very familiar with those boilers but they are veeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyy expeeeeeeeeeensiiiiiiive.
I want to build a boiler that is made for WVO.
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 07:37:49 AM »

Kinda sounds like the stove that Dallas was working on to require no electricity. Seems like even waste engine oil and sawdust made into bricks might work for BK.

Richard
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 08:27:22 AM »

Paso, the absolute cheapest corn stove would be $1400.00 and won't heat my water.
Wvnative, I am very familiar with those boilers but they are veeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyy expeeeeeeeeeensiiiiiiive.
I want to build a boiler that is made for WVO.

Thats true  I heat a 18 x 24 shop (pex in concrete)  with one 40 gallon electric water heater.  Water temp usually runs around 140 degrees keeps the shop at 70 (by choice)  We get temps down to -40, at that time I have another water heater on line that supplements the  first system.  Are you running your gen all the time as well?

I have a outside wood boiler set up for another application.  I was just thinking of the fact you move around so much and that you might not be able to use the outside boiler every where you go and they are messy.

There is also grain burners like the Corn burner on that video clip available. I don't know how small the units go as you would not need a big one to heat your bus. I was thinking of the clean factor...

You could maybe make a small unit. 
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 08:30:02 AM »

Hi Ron,

Are you thinking a Wood fired Hydro Boiler??  If so, maybe you can copy one from this site
http://www.hydro-fire.com/products.html

or do what my dad did about 30 years ago, put a copper coil in the flu pipe of his franklin stove.

Nick-
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 10:21:57 AM »

Finally! A way to heat your bus, make douhgnuts and booze in a single unit! 
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 12:34:37 PM »

We have a friend that has a wood pellet stove in his 4104.  I have no idea what it cost, but it looks like a minature franklin stove and will heat the bus quickly.  I doubt if it could be used when driving.  Jack
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2008, 01:55:36 PM »

What is a WVO and cubies? 
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captain ron
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2008, 03:50:14 PM »

What is a WVO and cubies? 
West Virginia Orphans living in a box.

Waste Vegetable Oil and the container it comes in
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2008, 05:50:55 AM »

Paso, the absolute cheapest corn stove would be $1400.00 and won't heat my water.
Wvnative, I am very familiar with those boilers but they are veeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyy expeeeeeeeeeensiiiiiiive.
I want to build a boiler that is made for WVO.

Hey Charley, yes these units are very expensive and I would not buy one for the bus alone. My plan was to buy one for my house where the monthly gas bill can run $150 to $300. then tie it into the bus also, that way you can keep her warm also and if you want to work on her it no problem to open up the heating system to her.

LOL that WVO joke was funny stuff, I love a good old hillbilly joke.

WVaNative   
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2008, 09:45:31 AM »

Quote
Today I mixed the caramel colored thick stuff that settles out of my WVO in the cubies with sawdust and packed it into a cereal box and put it in the wood burning stove in the shop. It burned for 4 hours and put out a great amount of heat and very little ash. I also smelled outside like wood smoked french fries. So unhappy with the $300.00 a month I have to spend heating my bus I decided to build a boiler that will set outside my bus and run off of this concoction. It will tie in to my existing hot water heating system with quick disconnect fittings. We are going in the mourning to start scrounging for parts to build it. The first one will be a proto type and if it works well we will build a really nice one. Wa La free heat. Any input or ideas. I know you train drivers are gonna pipe in with all the safety issues so lets hear it.

Always thinkin, aren't ya Ron. Grin  That is actually a very neat thought as use for that nasty stuff. I will be processing WVO for the bus and the furnace in my shop. I think there may be a significant amount of the stuff around here in the future. Wink Another stove may be in order for "veggy dust bricks"!  Cheesy lol 
 As far as using something like that on the bus............ are you sure you want to use an "external heat source"? Sounds like a pain in the butt to me. But for the home or shop, that would be pretty cool. Hell, there may even be a cottage industry there! (?) Both are waste products. We have a pretty good supply of sawdust around here. Most people just pick it up for use as horse bedding.

 Now a corn/pellet burner in a bus is an interesting idea. Around here you can get plenty of "old corn" (usually moldy or whatever) that farmers have left in their bins. But there are plenty of places that a person can buy shelled corn or pellets. Maybe a less attractive/more functional stove would be cool in the bay. And adapted to use with an hydronic system is doable also.

   So many cool things to try - so little time.
      Chaz
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captain ron
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 12:53:56 PM »

Today I made a tube out of 4 inch pvc 12 inches long, drilled rows of 1/8 inch holes down the length spaced 2 inches apart staggering each rows tarting point. This was to allow oil to ooze out while I was pressing the mixture into the tube with 10,000 pounds of pressure from my hydraulic press. I ended up with a log 8 inches long and 4 inches diameter which slipped easily out of the pvc.. I placed it directly on the floor of the wood burner in the shop and lit it. I was documenting times and temps but my friend screwed it up by knocking it over (all of my research and stats are forever gone Cry ). The temps of the log exceeded 1000 degrees as my temp gun only goes to 999 and just quit working. This evening we went to a local carpet store and got 10 tubes. We will cut them to 12 inches and pack them the same way but might not use the weep holes. Then we can burn them in the tube. Were going to burn some standing and some laying down to see if there is any difference in performance. Were still hashing over the design of the boiler. Right now the easiest and quickest thing is to make an outdoor setup and get the bugs worked out and then shoot for one that will work onboard.
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 01:32:57 PM »

Imitation fireplace logs are made from sawdust and a waste waxy substance from oil refineries. You are making much the same thing with your waste from WVO. The imitation logs do burn very hot and they have a safety warning on them to not put several in a fireplace at the same time. To make good use of the heat, you will need good control of the combustion air and the burn rate.
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2008, 06:44:21 PM »

one of the cool thing about hydronics is that it opens up choices for sources of heat that you didn't have before.

like a swimming pool heater if you know your gonna be stationary a while,  throw it on the roof or lay it out on the ground if its sunny

external burner like wva said and use outside when parked



keep it up and keep us posted
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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2008, 12:54:37 AM »

Don't forget the space above the engine where the squirrel cage was if you have removed it already, as a place to put a this unit.

WVaNative
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« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2008, 09:31:41 AM »

Don't forget the space above the engine where the squirrel cage was if you have removed it already, as a place to put a this unit.

WVaNative

Well that was Goofy. Cheesy.. His bus has radiators and cooling fans up there....
( You must have been thinking RTS or something.. Not MCI.... ) Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2008, 11:58:14 AM »

Don't forget the space above the engine where the squirrel cage was if you have removed it already, as a place to put a this unit.

WVaNative

Well that was Goofy. Cheesy.. His bus has radiators and cooling fans up there....
( You must have been thinking RTS or something.. Not MCI.... ) Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Goofy Notttt!!! here is an MCI 102A3 that shows what I was referring too note picture below. I was thinking for those who have the A/C components already removed from up there above the engine. Dang DrDAVE you must be from Ak, LOL to go slinging goofy words around like that.

WVaNative   "just having some fun with you boy"
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Dean Hamilton Villa Grove, IL East Central IL. Near Champaign
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« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2008, 12:37:27 PM »

WVAnative...

DUH...

That picture shows the squirrel cage fans up next to the TWO radiators...

See the upper hoses going from the engine up to each radiator???

Actually I am from KY and live in TN....

It's a small world...
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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 05:18:37 PM »

Well Drdave I was born in KY myself, the last family member born in a log cabin with dirt floors so I'm told, small world. LOL and I'm looking right now at some land not to far from BK, over in Milan, TN.  I was just down there in Dec to visit a dear friend who was like a father to me four days before he passed away in Luray, TN. While we were there we fell in love with TN, and with so many friends down there who are like family I decided to buy some land there. But I'm here for you buddy to help you with that low self esteem. You can give me a hard time anytime you want. I truly am a newbe and I'm sure I'll learn a lot from you and the others.

WVaNative just another Hillbilly LOL 
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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 05:31:40 PM »

Well Drdave I was born in KY myself, the last family member born in a log cabin with dirt floors so I'm told, small world. LOL and I'm looking right now at some land not to far from BK, over in Milan, TN.  I was just down there in Dec to visit a dear friend who was like a father to me four days before he passed away in Luray, TN. While we were there we fell in love with TN, and with so many friends down there who are like family I decided to buy some land there. But I'm here for you buddy to help you with that low self esteem. You can give me a hard time anytime you want. I truly am a newbe and I'm sure I'll learn a lot from you and the others.

WVaNative just another Hillbilly LOL 

Yeah.. I feel like Jed Clampet here sometimes. I was partially raised in Huntington WVA..
I am East of BK here in the Upper Cumberland area near Cookeville, Just far enough out of the way for it to be aggravating sometimes. When it's really quiet and the wind is from the south, I can occasionally hear trucks on I-40 across the hilltops..

I am up the road from the Daltons who have the most MCI MC6 "Queen of the Highway buses" that have ever been in one place in years, I just can't get over there for some strange reason to chat much. And before anyone asks, NO I don't think he wants to sell them. He has a couple still running and looking ready for revenue service. And a bone yard that looks like heaven.....
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captain ron
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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2008, 07:40:43 PM »

Ok, if I can get this back on track. I need to know the max temp of water under pressure or the max temp in a closed loop system. With my continuing research of the WVO/sawdust mixture I'm finding that it burns very hot. The temps on top of the shop wood burner are exceeding at times 800 degrees but are usually around 650 degrees. At the flame it is well over 1000 degrees. I'm sure the water temps are going to be much lower because of the constant flow, distance of travel and the fact that the lines going to and from the bus are outside. My latest design is going to be a very small fire box with a water chamber above to maximize the heat exchange. I will tie this boiler into my manifold on my Pro heat system and use the circulating pump I have now in my system. I will have a relief valve at the boiler and an aquastat to operate zone valves and switch on my proheat when the boiler runs out of fuel if I'm not around to baby sit it. I'm also going to have a tube that runs into the base of the fire box that will have a fan controlled by another aquastat to help control heat from the fire. We are also looking into incorporating an auger to feed the fire box like a pellet stove.
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2008, 09:00:59 PM »

Ron,

You need to find info or books on boiler design to find out how to
calculate flow and heat absorbtion. Years ago I helped build several
tube and fin-tube boilers for steam engines. There are many critical
parts that you need if this is going to be safe and work with any efficiency.

It sounds like you figured out the fuel part, But now need burn rates
and pressure systems info. You may also need high pressure or temperature
controlled valves and automatic dampers to shut things down if stuff goes wrong.

Hot water can hurt you seriously, Steam will kill you if you make the tiniest
mistake with a design. Its explosive if not handled correctly.

If your heater messes up you could get superheated steam. In the U.S. you need a license to handle live steam systems and that's because of the education needed for handling boilers properly and their design.

I know that you are on a roll with this stuff, I wouldn't presume that I or anyone else knows enough about where you may be headed. I quit messing with boilers for a very sane reason... death !!! So as you follow your ideas, Please take time to study where you are going and dig into the physics and science a bit more.. We want you around to pick on for a lot longer if that's OK with YOU !!! Cool
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captain ron
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2008, 10:20:25 AM »

This is from my thread on another board
"Hi There, interesting idea - have a suggestion for ya which may help - add a good concentration of glycol to your water in your heating system , this will raise the boiling point of the water and also if you seal or pressurise the system it will also help- but you need to fit an expansion vessel and safety and temperature relief valve to make it as safe as poss.just a suggestion .."
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