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Author Topic: Just a thought- Induction hot water heater(?)  (Read 5806 times)
Chaz
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« on: January 05, 2008, 10:46:25 AM »

I have been reading the threads on induction cooking and it occurred to me, would it be possible to do an induction hot water heater??
 I have ZERO experience in these things, but REALLY like the idea of having a cooktop like this. And from what people say, it heats water like "right now". I'm also under the impression they don't use an exorbitant amount of electricity. I wonder if any of these companies thought about doing hot water heaters with that technology?? Like I said, I haven't a clue how they work but it seems that it could be possible.
  I understand the pots and pans have to be magnetic. 300 series stainless isn't, but 400 series is. (it's usually harder than Chinese arithmatic too!) I'm assuming that would be the material they use in the stainless pans.
  Any of you guys got any knowledge on this??
 
    Just thinkin again,
       Chaz
   
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Tom & Phyllis
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 12:35:56 PM »

Chaz,

I thought I would repost in this ditch thread too:

Seriously, if you used something like the Polaris, all you would need would be the induction heating unit.

You can see specs of the Polaris here:

http://www.americanwaterheater.com/products/pdf/lpg100.pdf

Any ideas on an induction heating unit to install inside the tank?

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Hartley
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 12:42:29 PM »

RF induction is how microwave ovens heat (water)..(food & Huh)

Ya gotta get the electrons excited somehow... 2,450 mhz Shocked Shocked Shocked

Everything else is "conduction" heating, Nichrome wire with current passing through it excites the atoms that vibrate and create heat. That gets conducted to the metal tube that conducts the heat intothe water.. ( heating element )...

Or something along those lines....

Must be the weather or something today..Huh?
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Jerry32
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 09:16:19 PM »

Induction cooktops don't get hot, just the pan gets heated. You can touch the cooktop and it will remail cold except where the pan heats it up. Jerry
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 09:45:22 PM »

OLD MAN,

That Polaris is a winner.  remember when Charlie said his exhaust was running 600 degrees? Cry  That is heat out the window and efficiency down the tubes.  Angry  I thought it must be a missprint when i first read that the exhaust pipe was made of PVC or ABS.  I can now see how they can do that. Cool  200,000 BTUs and 96% efficiency. Huh  Is there anything that can compare with this?

The only thing I saw that gave me even a little pause was that the thing was using potable water as the heating medium.  With any hard water there would be deposits somewhere in that system, wouldn't there be?  I know the water heater in my RV is full of solids and that eventually will kill the system with "hotspots".

The seconf thought I had was that this would make the ideal heat transfer methode if we could get a fire box at the input to the coils where the gas flame is and run with WVO or WMO or diesel.  96% efficiency and a "cold" exhaust.......gawahhhhn!  Shocked Shocked Shocked

Thanks for the post.  Very interesting....(without the swastika)

John
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Tom & Phyllis
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 05:23:19 AM »

John,

I have used and installed (back when I was in the HVAC business) a lot of Polaris water heaters. They are like buses...either you love them or hate them!  Grin

On the plus side, they are very efficient, quiet, can be installed about anywhere, can be vented with PVC pipe and produce a large amount of hot water. I used to tell my customers they could turn on the hot water faucet and let it run. They would never run out of hot water as long as they had gas. I also used them for hydronic heating. They do not collect deposits because the flue does not get hot enough to boil the deposits out of the water. I have seen one cut open that was 15 years old & it was clean as could be.

The cons are they are somewhat temperamental. They need to be LEVEL. The gas pressure has to be just right. Unfortunately, when they were introduced, a lot of techs didn't read the installation book and had problems. They operate on NEGATIVE gas pressure, meaning if the gas valve opened without the unit being on, no gas comes out. They also require a couple of special gauges to set them up.

The level requirement is because they condense water in the flue. That water runs down the inside and is collected and drained out of the bottom. It will operate fine not level but if the condensate drips on the igniter, it will burn out and the unit won't light next time. I made a lot of service calls on units installed by other techs that were not level.

I would have one of these in the bus for all heating & hot water needs except for the leveling problem. I have been told the new design solves that but it would be a big investment (about $2300 wholesale) to find out.

Put one in your house, you won't be sorry.

TOM
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 07:12:49 AM »

Tom and Chaz, you two may be on to something when Target or Best Buy  opens this morning I am going to buy a induction cook top and set it under a 7 gal SS fish fryer I have and see how long it takes to heat the water to 145 degrees compared to propane.I will post the results for you when finshed Its the Amercian way may not be scientific but I need to know, do you think I should test with lid on or off, insulate or not, and what wattage should I test with ( 900 to 1500) need input here from you guys.We can do it by Email if you like for the ones that don't post
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 07:58:44 AM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
captain ron
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 07:36:57 AM »

Tom and Chaz, you two may be on to something when Target or Best Buy  opens this morning I am going to buy a induction cook top and set it under a 7 gal SS fish fryer I have and see how long it takes to heat the water to 145 degrees compared to propane.I will post the results for you when finshed Its the Amercian way may not be scientific but I need to know, do you think I should test with lid on or off, insulate or not, and what wattage should I test with ( 900 to 1500) need input here from you guys.We can do it by Email if you like

Way to go 2 stroke. Work on a great idea and hide the stats and results in e-mails.
That does it, I will no further post any of my data on the tests of my new propetual energy WVO fired boiler/thermal conducting/hot water tank/turkey fryer and the amount of money I make selling power back to the state of Delaware.  Grin
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2008, 07:44:57 AM »

Charley, i have no problem with posting the testing and if you have any input on this, post or email  makes no difference some guys just do not like to post so I offered a option for those
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Chaz
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2008, 08:29:06 AM »

No, no, no, DEFINITELY post your findings here on this thread, 2stroke!!!!! This is GREAT info!!!! Charlie is right. (Facetious as the ol' biker trash might be!! LOLOL  Grin Grin Grin ya just gotta love the ol' scooter bum!  Cheesy)   Takes one to know one!
 As far as with/without insulation, etc. hell, try it a couple ways if ya got time! This is good info! Maybe us bus nuts should start a little business venture and design and build induction hot water heaters!!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes LOL  Well.......................... maybe somebody should.  Wink  I am already up to my eyeballs developing an industrial corn burner.
  That Polaris sounds like an awesome heater. I would have one but I am going to go with a solar panel on my house. One panel will take care of all my hot water needs including heating the house. (before someone thinks I'm crazy, they need to see my house)

Anyway, PLEEEEEEESE post your results here 2stroke!! This is cool.

     Chaz
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captain ron
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2008, 08:51:31 AM »

Ok, Does that mean I'm back on the board of directors? Oh and Chaz Biker Trash? I want you to know I resemble that remark.

I don't know a lot about induction other than if you put magnetic steel on it it heats up. So for a hot water tank you would need to put an aquastat on the tank to turn on/off the power source and you should have at least a crude hot water tank. The insulating would come later after the idea is proven to work.
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Jerry Liebler
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2008, 08:55:58 AM »

Chaz,
     Even better than an induction water heater is one that uses a plasma arc under water to heat water. Several of these have been shown to actually produce more heat in the water than can be accounted for from the electrical power input.  The excess heat is attributed to nuclear fusion of some of the hydrogen in the water. So far none have reached the US market but one is being sold in Russia.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2008, 09:09:32 AM »

A couple of questions, 1 where I should weld the fitting for the electric element for the test  top, bottom or middle.I got an email from someone asking to compare the electric element with the same wattage.2 should i weld the lid or use alminum tape and what can i use to measure the kw used maybe the power co will help I thought about trying use the the meter but it is 500ft from my shop  thanks
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 09:32:22 AM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
captain ron
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2008, 10:11:56 AM »

Well heat rises so I would say bottom would be more efficient. As far as the proto type goes I would think the tape should be fine.
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2008, 11:01:18 AM »

another question for you tell me if I am close on this

1 gallon of propane = 1525 btu per min    tranlates to 26.81 kw per min to achive the same btu right or wrong

 
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