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Author Topic: P8M4904A #724 lots and lots of ???? and a long post  (Read 4131 times)
jackhartjr
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2008, 07:46:29 PM »

Mike...reading between the lines...you aint gonna' be happy unless you get a PD4501!  Am I right...and if so...why waste time on something you won't be totaly happy with?
Now if I am wrong...sorry.
Jack Hart
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Jack Hart, CDS
1956 GMC PD-4501 #945 (The Mighty SCENICRUISER!)
8V71 Detroit
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Hickory, NC, (Where a call to God is a local call!)
mike davis
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2008, 08:23:39 PM »

Mike...reading between the lines...you aint gonna' be happy unless you get a PD4501!  Am I right...and if so...why waste time on something you won't be totaly happy with?
Now if I am wrong...sorry.
Jack Hart

jack

  I DO want a PD4501 more than any other bus But I have been unable to get my hands on one that I could do with the $$$ I have

I want to move back to Tucson by Aug. My 5 year old has to go to school. The most $$ I can put in a bus by that time is $6500-7000. I cant find a PD4501 that I can do That will do what I need it to do in that time

I do look every day for one

I know Boo Ho I want a 4501 Does not like I'll get one now. It not the one that is here. It sucks. But oh well We will muddle. through If this or another bus does not work then We will go in our RV But with the kids I NEED 40ft not 26ft

                                          mike
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H3Jim
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2008, 08:48:32 PM »

I'd make an offer on the PD4501, you never know, they may take it.  I low balled the bus I have, and I'll be damned if they didn't take it.  The dealer had three almost identical buses and sold a sister bus to one of their own employees for $10k more than I paid.

If that PD4501 is what you really want and dream of, find a way to make it happen!
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Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 08:56:29 PM »

dave

   Is that $10,000 in parts or $2500 in parts and $7500 for someone to put the parts on ? Why I ask is I built a 53' TDM5302 from the ground up Rebuilt the 671 my self. So if it's $10,000 in parts I'll walk no RUN away There is a PD4501 for (asking) $7,000 in DE.

        I'm just feeling this one out

                                              thanks

                                                           mike

Ouch...That is a good question.
 My Magic 8-Ball doesn't seem to want to work in these freezing temps here.

I really only threw out a figure. Not right or wrong. The end result of your search should include
the knowledge and ability that you already have. A Place to work on the bus and places to get
parts within reason. Having the knowhow but short on tools and workspace must be considered.

I get from the messages that you have about 5 months to get fully operational. It sometimes doesn't matter about the total money spent for making a bus road ready, But more a timeframe and learning curve. If you are not really looking for a Buffalo and would rather have a Scenicruiser then look for what you want.

However keep in mind that a Buffalo actually is a better choice because of interior usable space and ease of conversion. It does have drawbacks mainly with the V-Drive setup but that is why the interior and bay space for a 4905 is almost equivalent. No they don't look like a 50's vintage Scenicruiser but they also have a lot newer running gear and systems. You would be ahead by 20 years at least.

There is also a shortage of vintage running or reasonably repairable PD4501 Scenicruisers these days considering they were built for 2 years or 1001 units.

There are plenty of later model Buffalo's (PD4905xx) out there. Some could be in your price range and drive home if you do some searches. Many probably could do the distances you need with only minor work. A Buddy of mine bought one that was already converted a couple of years ago for $5,000 and the only thing he did was replace the batteries and tires. A few minor electrical issues took about a week of rewiring and he runs it all over to rallies.

Or.. If you already have a 26 foot MH, Get a trailer and make an extended living space. Gets the kids out of your hair at bedtime and although this may sound silly. I saw a converted 30 foot Neoplan Transit at a campground with a 25 foot trailer built to match the bus. Looked neat.. The shocking part was the next morning I found out the guy and his family of 4 kids all live in the rig and travel to jobs around the states all year. I was parked across from him with my MCI at the time.

So, If you want to wait and get what you want then have it your way. If you want a workable rig then slow down and see what you can find.

Dave....
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mike davis
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 06:14:25 AM »

Hi Mike,

Welcome!

Theese guy's won't let you leave any room for mistakes... Lol

Hay, nobody's perfect and don't listen to them when they want you to be.

Keep on posting!
Nick-


Nick

  You own a H,V,A/C, co in N.J.?

 I used to work out of L.I.C. N.Y.   AFL/CIO local 638  A lot of chilled/hot loops there

                                 mike
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Tenor
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 07:11:41 AM »

Mike,
Now that I understand your timeline, I'd look for a different deal.  I got my MCI 7 in late September and I plan to have it ready (useable) for this spring.  I got mine for $3500 with proper window removal, siding and new windows, air conditoners and lots more.  The inside was stripped.  I'd keep looking at least for an unmolested bus that you could at least start "tin can tenting" in this year.  Get an MCI 7-9, pull the seats, put on some roof airs and get a couple of cot's and a portapottie and get started having fun.  The scenic cruisers are awesome looking, but they are near to being made out of "unobtainium".  No disrespect here inteded to the guys who have these, they are like Duesenberg owners with big goals!
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
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1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
mike davis
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 08:20:59 AM »


Dave, Tenor,

I hear what you guys are saying.  Let me define my situation a little more to show you what I'm looking at and how I'm thinking about it. 

After going through 10 years of problems in my life (no not alcohol related or anything like that, It was like Limoney Snickets, "A series of unfortunate events").  I kinda came to feel like the character Moll Flanders even though I am not female.  No matter what the best intentions were they all got off to a flying stop. 

Now I have two small children.  We are in this part of Missouri which is nowhere, then take a left two miles.  And, we're not from here.  My wife has managed to get sent through some of her educational courses for free.  Now she can pursue some of her career goals and work on the next step. 

We live in Tucson normally.  A lot of the problems were caused by the explosion of housing costs in Tucson.  About 400% in 7 years is what it worked out to.  So, what was a fairly easy life style for at least cost and everything turned out to feel, at least like from our perspective, like we were trying to own a house on the Beach in San Diego.  Thank God, San Diego tanked.  Now all of the people that made them imaginary 100's of thousands of dollars now are running away from Tucson where they decided to dump their imaginary money and obtain the wonderful financing option called ARM with it, can't leave fast enough.  I think an f-15 wold be too slow to carry them back to CA in their opinions. 

Don't get me wrong.  I lived in CA for a long time and love parts of the state, but I left CA because of the costs going up in the early 90's. 

So, what I'm looking at doing.  See, it does come back to a bus so it's on topic, is obtaining a reasonable coach, so the three roof airs are very important (desert climate in August).  So, what the coach I need to obtain now should be capable of doing is transporting myself, my wife, our two small children and two cats, loaded medium heavy, because we do have some stuff (wonderful bays on this one we're looking at) towing our AstroVan (this coach is set up for towing already) and preferably able to generate it's own power for a couple of weeks in the summer to run the air if need be.  Because, by the time I get to Tucson I will probably want a break before I do anything else. 

So, I'm trying to balance my experience, my knowledge of coaches, although my knowledge is a Generation of Coaches behind this one and balance the attributes of the conversion because it is very important in the end.  My kids must be cool, dry and comfortable with a place to put their toys and a place to store their toys that they don't have out because I'd never hear the end of it if I left just one matchbox car. 

Mike.
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Hartley
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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 10:22:23 AM »

Mike,

That's exactly why we left Florida last July and bought land in Tennessee...

All that was the Old Florida has gone to high taxes and crime rates headed for
big city values. Just couldn't afford to live there anymore.

So we loaded our MC9, trailers and trucks and moved on spec. No property to go
to at the exact moment but a plan.

We got here and closed a deal, paid and moved onto the property 2 days later.
then had our 40 foot shipping container delivered from Florida and dragged
everything else up here over about 6 months.

So we kinda came to a place that is 3 left turns and 2 white knuckle hills on a one lane road. Things are much better here. Pay is worse than Florida but living expenses are much lower.

I understand your needs for a bigger bus and if the one you are looking at is fixable in a reasonable fashion that might be a way to go. One point that I was trying to make (at the expense of PD4501 owners ) and not tryin to upset anyone is that there is by far more room in a Buffalo (PD4905) on the usable interior space than there is in a Scenicruiser.

The isleways and head clearances on cruisers is limited and making major changes to get more space is at a premium. I know I had one.(#598).. I found that the only way was going to be a major redesign of the upper and lower sections and making the floors flat.

They look neat but have a lot of needs for a 50 year old coach.

You need to have someone go with you and go over that bus from end to end and see what it really needs to make it usable for you. Don't trust yourself and your own judgement, Both may be jilted slightly out of context. Have someone go with you to play the devils advocate.

The next thing is the price. For the amount of rust and broken hinges and little stuff, then the radiator that you said was weeping. Have someone look at that also. Then decide what you want to pay. If it has been idle for 10 years in that kind of weather.. Be very careful....

It's not worth anything if it would cost more to send it to the scrap heap. I suspect the current owner already knows that. Be nice but be a realist about it.

Dave....
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jackhartjr
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2008, 10:53:49 AM »

Dave, as a Scenicruiser owner...I can assure you we are not offendend!  We new what we were getting into before we did it.
Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
1956 GMC PD-4501 #945 (The Mighty SCENICRUISER!)
8V71 Detroit
4 speed Spicer Trannsmission
Hickory, NC, (Where a call to God is a local call!)
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2008, 11:46:50 AM »

Mike, don't feel too bad. I too wanted a "senic", but it wasn't meant to be.
Turns out the 4905 is a mighty fine bus. I'm south of you in Arkansas. If you want, e-mail me and I'll share my knowledge of 4905's.
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Charles Seaton
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2008, 02:48:31 PM »

If you had a '53 GM, it was not a TDM5302.  That's a fishbowl transit with a stick shift.  No block heater on your bus because when Liberty was running 4905s, and maybe Tekebird can back or correct me on this, they ran fire watches.  That means that on below freezing nights, buses were alternately started and run for about 30 minutes, shut off and then restarted and run again before they got completely cold.  Can't do that today.  Liberty Lines express buses spent their entire careers on some of the roughest streets in the world.

-- Seaton
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mike davis
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2008, 04:31:54 PM »

If you had a '53 GM, it was not a TDM5302.  That's a fishbowl transit with a stick shift.  No block heater on your bus because when Liberty was running 4905s, and maybe Tekebird can back or correct me on this, they ran fire watches.  That means that on below freezing nights, buses were alternately started and run for about 30 minutes, shut off and then restarted and run again before they got completely cold.  Can't do that today.  Liberty Lines express buses spent their entire careers on some of the roughest streets in the world.

-- Seaton
a old look gmc 40' ft mid doors Ex greyhound By the greyhound paint and tag on the 671 last rebuilt by them in 67

 I'll look for signs of stress  on the 4905 thanks for pointing out the bad roads Most of my life I lived in the south ,south west or CA So I don't think of crappy roads right off the bat But your right


         thanks for the tip

                            mike
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 12:07:48 PM by DrivingMissLazy » Logged
mike davis
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2008, 05:26:09 PM »

Mike, don't feel too bad. I too wanted a "senic", but it wasn't meant to be.
Turns out the 4905 is a mighty fine bus. I'm south of you in Arkansas. If you want, e-mail me and I'll share my knowledge of 4905's.

 cool I'm going back on Thursday I'm going to write all the tips i got here and then i'll get into contact with you

 i'm pulling some big house batterys out of my rv and i'm going to try to crank it up

           mike 
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2008, 06:00:40 PM »

Hey Mike,
How long ago was the bus started last?  You may need to re-prime the fuel system.  The bus will not self prime by cranking.  On my 4905, there was a port, like a car air valve on one of the fuel filter system and I used an old fire-extinguisher filled with diesel that I could pressurize with my air compresser.  I hooked a hose from the extinguisher to the nozzle and shot a bunch in.  I hope someone else can supply an easier option.  Who else in the world has one of those extinguishers! Grin  Take a couple of gallons of oil with you too.  I don't know what fluid the tranny uses, some use 40W for the engine and tranny.  Mine was a stick, so I am not sure about the auto.  Check the powersteering reservoir (green canister on the passenger side cradle beam that runs behind the main rear door).  Mine used type F tranny fluid.  Of course, check the antifreeze!  I went to look at another 4905.  The owner started it right up.  After a few minutes, I looked at the dash gauge and saw no oil pressure.  I ran to the engine to check there,-NO OIL PRESSURE!  I shut it down, checked the dipstick - NO OIL!  Lord knows how many  times it had been run dry!  I fired up an MCI after 5 years of sitting.  It still had pressure and came to life in half of a crank.  This one should too.  It is so much fun checking out these old things!  Good luck!
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
mike davis
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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2008, 07:42:19 PM »

Hey Mike,
How long ago was the bus started last?  You may need to re-prime the fuel system.  The bus will not self prime by cranking.  On my 4905, there was a port, like a car air valve on one of the fuel filter system and I used an old fire-extinguisher filled with diesel that I could pressurize with my air compresser.  I hooked a hose from the extinguisher to the nozzle and shot a bunch in.  I hope someone else can supply an easier option.  Who else in the world has one of those extinguishers! Grin  Take a couple of gallons of oil with you too.  I don't know what fluid the tranny uses, some use 40W for the engine and tranny.  Mine was a stick, so I am not sure about the auto.  Check the powersteering reservoir (green canister on the passenger side cradle beam that runs behind the main rear door).  Mine used type F tranny fluid.  Of course, check the antifreeze!  I went to look at another 4905.  The owner started it right up.  After a few minutes, I looked at the dash gauge and saw no oil pressure.  I ran to the engine to check there,-NO OIL PRESSURE!  I shut it down, checked the dipstick - NO OIL!  Lord knows how many  times it had been run dry!  I fired up an MCI after 5 years of sitting.  It still had pressure and came to life in half of a crank.  This one should too.  It is so much fun checking out these old things!  Good luck!

thanks tenor

 I guess what I'm going to do is go over on thus.and look some more Then by tus. we are supost to have 2 days of temps with lows in the 40;s so I'll try to start it then If it cranks and airs Then I'll try to find a radiator for under $500
if i can find that and the bus does not blow up ,make wearied nosies, catch fire or just piss me off.  There is a tire buddy sitting on the dash That I can beat the wheel wells ect with to check for rust Then if no other bus has come along 
I'll start to buy it

I think it has been at least 1 1/2 years maybe more since it started

             mike

                   mike   
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