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Author Topic: Bus Shop  (Read 2815 times)
skipn
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« on: January 26, 2008, 10:05:56 AM »

A simple question....well maybe


   The place I have a buy/sale on has a 40X60 drive through shop.

  I was thinking of putting a wall up so it would split the shop up into a
  40X40 Mecahnical area and a 20X40 wood shop area with a sliding door
 on the separation wall to maintain the drive through feature.

  Has anyone tried this?
  That way I can do the wood stuff in the winter and heat a smaller area.

   Your thoughts are appreciated Smiley

  Skip
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BusCrazyTom
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 10:31:36 AM »

Don't have my shop built yet, heck, don't even have the bus yet, but that is the way I planned mine when I build it. Got to have a usable wood shop handy.

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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 11:48:44 AM »

I too am just dreaming about what I would like to build, and it has a separete area for mechanical / storage and wood working.  good idea.  The wall / doors would have to be pretty tall to separate in the center along the ridgepole line, but thats not much after the garage is built.
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 03:56:33 PM »

How about two areas 20x60 each?
60 feet will give you 10 feet on each end of the bus, so you can have a workbench up front and still close the door and work on the bus.If you have a 45 footer, keep 10 feet up front for the same work area, and only 5 feet in the rear,so you can still close the door with the bus inside. Wish I had my own too.  Cool
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 05:12:22 PM »

Agree with Sammy - a 20X60 would be better.  40 ft deep is not long enough for anything but a 35 ft or shorter coach.

My shop is 25X50 and works out great (40 ft 05 Eagle).  Down one wall are 30 inch shelves 9 ft tall and a 12 ft work bench in the middle of that wall.  The space between the shelves and coach is my open work area that has a 3X7 ft steel metal topped table on rollers.  Most very thing in my shop is on rollers so it can be moved.  On the opposite wall are 12 inch shelves for misc items and steel.  It has 16 ft high walls, one 14 ft overhead door and three walk in doors.

Do it your way - just not too short!
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 06:11:41 AM »

Skip, My shop is not that big. Wish is was. But I have a second floor for my wood shop, it is over a couple car bays. Works well for me but wish it was bigger. I had to move the wall back to get my bus in, but I built it with that in mind. 1 bay for the bus, 1 for repair, and 2 for autos. You need more than 40 for your bus. I have 40 for my 5c and it works well.  Tom Y
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skipn
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 07:41:12 AM »

Thanks for the ideas guys.

 I hadn't thought about length wise...
 Everything on wheels sounds like a nice idea. I was
 thinking of stations which tend to take up a lot of room.

  I'll have to see if I can put my shop smith on wheels.
 It's old (circa 1950's) and heavey. A lot of the newer
 attachments still fit......

 Again thanks

Skip
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 01:57:10 PM »

You could just buy my house.  40 x 60 shop with a pit.

Len
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2008, 04:03:33 PM »

I'm planning on building a 40x50 shop with a wall down the middle.  One half of course for the bus and the other half split between passenger cars and a wood shop area.  I would like to go bigger, but I would have to go much further out to a city or county that will allow more than 2,000 square feet. 

I would like to find an existing home with the right size shop, but not likely.  Existing homes are cheaper than building right now.
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skipn
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 04:25:24 PM »


 Len,
     Thanks for the offer but this northern mountain boy wouldn't do well in the heat.
   

 Brian,
    We were looking at 2 or three places and the one we put an offer on already has a shop.
    From my perspective the lived in places seem to have better quality and all the problems
     of a new build have been resolved (hopefully).  The shop isn't exactly what I was looking
      for but it is way better than my current 40X60 Quonset. (lot of lost usable space on the
       sides).   I like how you are going to split up the usage. Heating is becoming a major concern
      and pocket book gouge.

 Skip
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 04:43:09 PM »

A lot of existing homes I've looked at are real dumps, but I've been looking at some pretty low end places.  The problems with existing homes is many could use new kitchens, windows, and siding amongst other things.  My existing home was custom built for me in 2001 and is nicer than most of the existing homes in the area.  The bid was 10% more than others, but the builder did a great job.  I will agree that most tract homes are junk.  Some of the model homes I looked at were scary and models are supposed to get extra attention.

New homes use a lot less energy than existing homes in most cases.  My current home with over 2,000 square feet costs less than $1,800 a year for heat, cooling, and electric and I'm in Minnesota.  The average home locally with natural gas costs about $1,700 a year just for heat.

I currently have my eye on a house built in 1966 with 7 acres.  It has a barn, but the yard is full of junk the previous owner left behind when the place was foreclosured.  There is even an old school bus back there.  The back yard has a seperate driveway which would make adding a bus shop easier.  I haven't been in the house, but the outside is really bad.  It certainly needs exterior work and I bet inside is no better.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
skipn
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2008, 07:00:50 AM »

Brian,

   Can't disagree at all but after converting a bus; house remodeling should be
 a piece of cake (done 2 houses and working on one bus  the houses were easier) Smiley

   DON'T get a place with feul oil (#1 diesel) heat....the ULSD diesel I now am using
 to heat the house only lasts 75% as long as the old stuff. Used to be able
 to make 100 gal last a month now it is 3 weeks w/ the wood stove running
 12 hrs a day. this morning at -7 F both wood stove and furnace are running.
   At $2.98 (non tax) a gallon it gets expensive fast.

Skip
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 07:41:59 AM »

It is very rare to find anyone using fuel oil here in Minnesota.  I really would like to use geothermal for my next house.

I would like to stay away from a house remodeling project because I just spent a year finishing off unfinished space in my current house.  The biggest issue for me with home remodeling is not having someone to help hold and lift things.  I have hired a high scholl kid in the past, but it helps if they have had at least minimal exposure to tools and such.  A lot of high school kids don't seem to know which end of the hammer is which.

Also, if I spend my summer remodeling a house I won't have time to work on my bus!  I sure would gain a lot of equity by remodeling my onw house though.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
skipn
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 08:41:10 AM »


 Just showing my age I guess... High school in Staples, J high in Bemidji
 On the farm what ever heated the shop was the same that heated the house.
But then I had friends that were still on the outhouse method.

  Heat lamps do not work that well in an outhouse at 28 below!
  but then again used to go camping in 10 below too.

Skip
 
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 11:04:35 AM »

Even before your post I had been giving a lot of thought to my bus barn/shop.  A really large expense, at least here is concrete.  The shop has to have a concrete floor at 20X20.  The car stalls need only have a 10X10 slab.  The bus would have a pit surrounded by a pad 20X20.  The rest of the floor would be highly compacted gravel.  So out of 2,000 sq ft I would need only 900 sq ft of concrete floor.  That would reduce the cost a lot around here.  What are your thoughts?  I am interested in your opinion.

John
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Dallas
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2008, 11:14:57 AM »

Even before your post I had been giving a lot of thought to my bus barn/shop.  A really large expense, at least here is concrete.  The shop has to have a concrete floor at 20X20.  The car stalls need only have a 10X10 slab.  The bus would have a pit surrounded by a pad 20X20.  The rest of the floor would be highly compacted gravel.  So out of 2,000 sq ft I would need only 900 sq ft of concrete floor.  That would reduce the cost a lot around here.  What are your thoughts?  I am interested in your opinion.

John

John,
Concrete doesn't come in square feet. It's delivered in cubic feet.

It kind of sounds to me like you are being penny smart and pound foolish.

do the whole 2000 square feet in concrete... all but the floor for the bus done at 4" with a good substrate and bed. For the bus do it 12' X the total length at 6". Do the area of the pit at 8" with a 4" floor and lots of rebar and wire around the edges. Line the edge of the pit with 3" X 3/8" angle iron and weld a 3 1/2" piece of bar stock up 1" from the edge of the angle iron... It helps you to keep from losing things in the pit.... like a tire, wheel, bus, car, etc.

Don't skimp on your pit. If you do it can collapse and turn you into mulch or worm food.

Dallas
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2008, 11:32:09 AM »

John, concrete in Scottsdale AZ cost over $100.00 Cy my bus barn floor was $3.45 sf( labor,rebar,concrete and forms) for a 60x40 building. what you are talking about would help on the cost but I think it would be a bear to keep clean.And on the pit you can figure about $15.00 a sf for the walls and floor, if you can get it approved by the powers that be. Scottsdale would not approve one without $8500.00 worth of EPA equipment           
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2008, 11:51:52 AM »

Dallas,

Your post was very informative and all of your advice sound...as usual.  I didn't know what the thickness for the bus part was and the 8" for the pit I will just take your word on.  How deep for the pit, while we are on that subject,and how wide?

Turnabout being "fair play". Smiley   Here in Orygun, and me thinks everywhere else Roll Eyes, concrete is sold by the cubic "yard"....not cubic foot.  And, angle does not come in 3" X 3/8"...thats bar stock or flat stock. Shocked  Need another dimension such as 3" or 4".  But, I know exactly what you meant. Grin  And I know you are smarter than that by miles and miles.  Still love Ya...really.

Thank you,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
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skipn
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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2008, 12:09:15 PM »


 I agree with Dallas on the pit info but the rest I don't know.

  1. "highly compact" of coarse but no matter it seems there will alway be a elevation diff between concrete
      and gravel.
  2. Having to get under the bus to work on something  in gravel leaves a frustration on using a mechanics creeper.
      I feel the oversized tire creepers don't work that great. Personal opinion
  3. If these two minor inconveniences become major you can always add concrete later.

   To me shops tend to be the collector of hidden treasures (BTDT)
    This weekend I was going through one of my barns to see what was being junked and
     what I would move.  found an old disassembled Kawasaki 900 I forgot I had.
 I'm sure you're better organized than I  Smiley
   
 Skip
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Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2008, 12:17:20 PM »

John,

Sorry you misunderstood,

Concrete does come in cubic feet, if you figure it that way. I was using the home owners friend.. "quikrete" in 80# bags.. for a 4" X 2000 square foot pad you would need 1121 bags, which are measured in cubic feet.

If you are using the local concrete delivery company, yes, you'll need to order by the yard. If you are going to order dry mix, or straight cement and mix it yourself, in a large mixer, which by the way will lower the cost, order it in dry bulk and have enough gravel and sand dropped by the truck load to do the job.

8" is a bit of overkill, but then I've never been known to do things halfway... what if the next owner brings in a D6-C Cat and gets too close to the edge? 6" will more than likely be enough, even in the Willamette Valley, where I did my share of mixing concrete and laying out substrate.

Angle iron, as I recall, does come the way I describe it.. 3" by 3/8" would infer each side of the angle would be 3" long and the thickness would be 3/8" thick.

If I were specifying sides with different lengths, then yes, I would need another length. That's just shorthand for the way I've always ordered steel.

Sorry if I wasn't more specific.

Dallas
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2008, 12:39:20 PM »

MMATS,

Yours, and Dallas's is good advice.  I hadn't even considered the "dirt" factor.  Sweeping is not my favorite thing.

I thought I might save $2.5 K but that might (probably would) be being "penny wise and pound foolish", as my Brit Granny used to say and Dallas pointed out.   I think I am convinced, actually...thanks to the two of you.

I have a friend with a trucking company.  He has a 60 X 60 barn and a pit that is 5x40 foot for his trucks and trailers.  OSHA came in and made him install a railing.  He opted to fabricate and install one that dropped into the floor.  He does use it and raises it when the pit isn't occupied.  He only installed it because they explained how much the daily fine would be if he didn't and I think there was a property condemnation issue associated with non compliance.  Then he only started using it after he got TWO huge fines for NOT using it.  They thought it prudent to DROP BY and I think his overt attitude influenced their decision to sit on him a little harder than most.  No more injuries over the past 9 years.  


He cursed the day the founding fathers invented the word Federal Government but that wasn't new for him.  I asked what got them interested in him as he is well off the beaten path and he said the last work comp injury got their attention.  Seems he has had three people disabled from falling in that pit over the years and one was 100% and permanent with a broken back and residual paralysis.  The other two were laid up for extended periods.  He told me that all three were jerks and that any reasonably intelligent person would remember the pit was there.  I suspect there were more injuries that went unreported and I heard from the forman that "the boss even fell in the thing once".  He and I both pay taxes to support that "work comp" benefits program but I would drop dead before I would ever bring that up to him.  

For the past seven years Fed OSHA has taken budget cuts and hasn't been all that involved in inspections.  I think they mostly fund the states to do that under the state OSHA and heard a while back that that funding had been stopped to them.  Today I read that the MINE INSPECTIONS had produced a far smaller number of violations to the mine safety regs but the Gumint had not fined a single mine for a violation in seven years.  That must include the violations turned up in that last big "die off" of miners where the emergency breathing units didn't work and hadn't been inspected for years.  Inspections have been dramatically reduced, also.

I think requiring a private party to implement OSHA is farcical and out of hand.  The O in OSHA stands for "occupational" and private isn't that.  $8,500....crap!

Thanks for your solid advice, truly, both of you.

John
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2008, 01:53:33 PM »

Dallas,

I pick up and shop for steel for that friend of mine that has the metal fabrication business.  His job sheets always have the second dimension for angle.  I asked him if he thought it was legit to just use one dimension, seeing as he always used two.  He told me to look at the bin labels at the wholesaler's and note that they only use one IF it is square.  I think he does it the way he does because he understands how easily I am confused Roll Eyes  Any way, I stand corrected and I didn't missunderstand.

How long ago did you leave Orygun?  Sounds like the good old days.  I really like overkill and I think 8" of concrete for the pit area sounds good.

My granny used to say "Well you got another "think" coming, if you think thats true".  I'll invoke her words if you think I can still mix or finish concrete at 67 years young with a heart attack and diabetes going for me.  Quite the complement though...thanks.  I have mixed and finished more than my share as a homeowner and friend,however.

Hi to Bubbagal and thanks,

John
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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2008, 06:06:59 PM »

My shop is 28 X 96 with a door on each end and a pit on the one side the ceiling is 13' 8" the door on one end is 13 x 13.6 and has a elect. opener. I have it lined with 2" white garage door panels with ceiling mounted hot air furnace. I have a 5.5 inch cement floor and the pit is poured cement works very nicely. I had to install a fan system that opens with a humidity switch to keep the humidity down.   
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2008, 07:25:38 PM »

Hello   
    My shop is 30 X 75 X 16 high at the eaves. Accommodates two buses if necessary; but one works best.  .  The small enclosed shop at the back is about 12 X 14 and has big doorways.. That is the wood area. I do have steel racking down both sides to store stuff etc..  No pit here..   Too many  critters would like to share it.
     The cost of a steel building with a 4 inch concrete floor in Florida is about 40 K now..  it was cheaper 5 years ago when I put it up..  It is insulated 4 inch ceilings and 3 inch sidewalls.   Skylights and louvers in ceiling..   The main door is 12 X 14 almost centered in the front with a man door at each end  .    Works pretty well so far.
     FWIW.        Happy Bussin     mike 
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2008, 07:34:11 PM »

     The cost of a steel building with a 4 inch concrete floor in Florida is about 40 K now..  it was cheaper 5 years ago when I put it up..  It is insulated 4 inch ceilings and 3 inch sidewalls.   Skylights and louvers in ceiling..   The main door is 12 X 14 almost centered in the front with a man door at each end  .    Works pretty well so far.

40k seems cheap compared to what I have been quoted around here in Minneapolis.  I priced out a 40x50 garage with 14 foot sidewalls stick built and it came in at $45k.  This does include fiber cement siding.

Is your building a pole barn or a true steel frame building for $40k?  I have not priced steel frame buildings yet.
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 05:24:46 PM »

hello     My building is a BSX from GA   steel frame, steel sides and roof    clearspan   3   25 by 30 bays strung together to make 30 by 75.
     16 foot at the eve with a 1/12 pitch making it 17'3 at the peak..  prices may be way out of date   I have not kept up an that . Mine went up in 2002.  needed a place here to store all my tools and stuff.. 
     Regards   Mike   Happy bussin..
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