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Author Topic: Which tires to avoid????  (Read 3779 times)
Kristinsgrandpa
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« on: January 31, 2008, 07:41:20 PM »

I've been contemplating this post for some time and since I'm getting closer to time to buy, I would like to hear some thought on which tires I should stay away from.

I have a small list comprised of anything made in China, and anything made by Firestone, or its parent company Bridgestone and the other tire they sell which I believe is Dayton. Kumho is also on that list. As well as anything made in Korea.

The reason for the Chinese boycot is quality control. There is an article about them (Google tire recalls) cutting production costs by cutting quality, after the contract was signed and started. That I read the other day.
Some 400,000 tires are ordered recalled by the NHTSA and the importer won't take responsibility or pay and neither will the Chinese.  When the problem first popped up the Chinese mfg. admitted what they had done, now they deny it.

Firestone has been selling junk tires since the 70's. When they came out with the 721 steelbelted radial Consumers Reports tried to get a tread wear indication out of a set, but went thru 16 tires and couldn't get a set to hold together long enough to accomplish that, they were rated unacceptable.  10 years later Firestone was still selling the 721 steelbelted radial. Might have been changed (fixed) I dont know.

Next was the Steeltex then the Wilderness recalls which amounted to 6.5 million tires. Shows a dedication to the almighty dollar instead of the motoring public.

Kumho's are on my list also. My brother witnessed a man in a tire store trying to break the bead, on a decent looking Kumho, put a hammer thru the sidewall of a tire that had just been removed from a vehicle. 11R-22.5 The tire age was unknown.

Now I've heard people badmouth Goodyears,Generals, Continentals, Daytons, Firestones, as a matter of fact just about all of the tires made. If you have a reason to dislike a brand I'd like to hear it before I buy.

I realize this is all a matter of opinion to some, so I'd like to hear facts.

The big problem now is with name brands being outsourced. It's hard to buy anything in Kmart or Walmart or Lowes, or Home Depot, etc. that isn't made in China.

One thing positive about the 'google tire reacalls' is that there were no big truck tire recalls.
 
Ed
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cody
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 07:49:26 PM »

Sounds like you have quite a list of ones to avoid, I can't say that you don't have good reason to avoid them or not, I just don't know but I use Yokohamas for my steering tires and they roll true and haven't given me a shred of problems, my drive wheels and tag have bridgestones, same thing, not a bit of problems with them. I guess I could recommend them, I know I'm well satisfied with them.
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tekebird
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 08:05:07 PM »

Most Brand BS is media or litigation driven.

all tire manufacturers make low end tires...either under thier branding or someone elses.

Why People are freaking cheap.

Don't know about the Korean or Chinese tires but a rather large truck manufacturer uses a Far Eastern tire as OEM equipment.....so can't be too bad.

key is getting the right tire.  right size, right design, right weight rating

lots and lots of stuff in the archives.

I prefer Michilin myself ut my last purchase were Firestones

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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 08:21:37 PM »

Michilins are always my first choice - best overall ride/wear/reliability combination, in my opinion.  But I also have to say that when I bought my pickup back in '85 it had Bridgestone's on it and I got 80,000 miles out of those tires and when I replaced them they still had a lot of tread left.  On the opposite end of the treadlife spectrum, I've had two experiences with Goodyear and in both cases they ran out of tread well before the warranty miles were up.  They made good on the warranty, but then the replacement set's tread was getting down before the expected miles and then the front left blew out for no obvious reason. So I replaced them with Michilins which did just fine.

So in summary, I wouldn't buy another Goodyear tire, I would consider Bridgestones, but I always prefer Michilin.
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H3Jim
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 08:55:02 PM »

I put Michelins on the bus, I've had them on cars and trucks for many many years.  Whenever I've strayed, generally I have been sorry.  I have never been disappointed in a Michelin tire.

My F-250 pickup came with Firstones, and they said that the heavy duty trucks did not have the issue with Firestones that the Explorer's did.  What a load.  I had the entire Firestone tread (still lots of tread left) come off at 70 mph, wrap around the rim, brake and axle and jerked me over a lane before I could $#!%.  I drove straight to the tire store and replaced them all with MIchelins.   I will never drive a vehicle with Firestones again.

Michelins are not that much more in the long run, spend the $.  They are safe (as long as you have them inflated correctly - as Mecedes says, they can't repeal the laws of physics)
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 10:37:08 PM »

Michelin is at the fore front of tire technology.  They bring out a new tire, or model and the other tire manufacturers sit back and see if it works.  Personally I have nothing but Michelins on both my car and bus with no regrets.

At Freightliner our standard tire is Goodyear with Michelin being an option for a little bit more (well worth it as far as I'm concerned) and also available is Bridgestone for a surprisingly ALOT more (even more than Michelin).

Just remember that tires are much more than big round black rubber things that the bus rides on.  Michelin makes 45 different models and tread designs of the 11R-22.5 tire alone!  I choose the XZE even though it is a regional tire, but is 16ply (11R-24.5), has reinforced sidewalls for those unforseen times you might get too close to a curb and it also has rock ejection tread so you limit the rock hammering into the tread.  The tread life expectancy is around 80,000 miles where the front tires will most likely cup out, but I anticipate the tire to worn out due to age before that.  The other tire to consider is the XZA3 which is a steer and all position tire.  Might be a bit better riding (although I have no complaints on the XZE's) since it is a highway tire with standard side walls.

Whatever tire you decide on, get the best tire available with the correct weight rating and right tread. Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 11:16:26 PM »

I have Bridgestones and I will tell you if they fail.

I have a warning on Michelin and this is the first negative comment I have EVER heard.  Considering the source and context I believe BOGGIETHECAT and take his data to the bank.  Seems he had Mich XZA or XZE models (or some other) on the front of his Crown.  He and his lady couldn't talk for the road noise.  He thought it was the bus.  He came across a couple XZE or XZA's that were shorter than his bus tires and really wanted to use them.  So he moved the XZE or XZA's to the rear and installed the XZA or XZe's in the front.  He was flabbergasted by how quiet his bus became.  It was the tires all the while. You can search his posts or PM him for the correct numbers.  He swears by Mich and had no idea they made a noisy tire that went so long.  I swear by Mich too but i can't always afford them or justify the outlay.  I don't buy trash though...ever.

I think it is a mistake to wright off KUMHO.  There are other brands that are made in China that i have never heard of that fleet drivers swear by and they are watching a thousand tires and the owner is keeping really tight records cause a few extra thousand miles per tire spell big Bucks and the drivers know ride and noise.  Research.  A hammer through a tire sidewall.  I believe you but that is called anecdotal evidence.

John
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 05:31:40 AM »

Quote
I realize this is all a matter of opinion to some, so I'd like to hear facts.

Good advice for everybody (even the writer)!
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belfert
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 06:35:29 AM »

Is there really a way to get facts on tires?  Does an independent group track tire failure statistics for large tires such as used on buses, trucks, and RVs?

If someone has a one or two blowouts with a particular brand of tires they will probably recommend not buying that brand.  Does that mean that brand is really bad because one person had a blowout or two?  Personally, I choose the Firestone FS590 Plus because it is a mid range price that isn't cheapest, but nor is it really expensive like some of the tires.  I'm not necessarily recommending these as I haven't had them long enough to know how they will last.

Tire brand wars are kinda like pickup brand wars.  People often believe whatever they use/drive is the best.
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 08:35:32 AM »

Yup, it was XZA-3 michelins that made ALL the difference on the front as far as noise.  I highly recommend them for the front.  These are "steer" tires only which means not for use on the rear...

The actual number is XZA3  11R24.5 which are exactly the same diameter and RPM as my  XZU-2   12R22.5' s (all position tires) on the rear.
I had to get new rims for the fronts...

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Kristinsgrandpa
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 08:38:56 AM »

   I am hoping for info on fleet operations, a pattern to tire failures by brand. I guess I need to monitor some of the truckers sites.  

  H3 Jim.. I also had an F-250 with the Firestone Steeltex but didn't put enough miles on them to have any problems.
I had an Explorer with Michelins on it and loved them but didn't put enough miles on it to matter, I only had it 10 mo.

Tekebird I understand what you are saying and agree.

  Tom C the XZE's are my #2 choice for the same reasons you stated, makes sense to me.

   JohnEd, I had my heart set on a set of Michelin XZE's till I read Boogiethecat's post on the sound issue with what ever he had and how quiet the XZA-3's were. After that I now want XZA3's.  
    I've also heard that Bridgestones were good tires and since they are made in a different plant than Firestones I should probably remove them from my list

   It probably doesn't matter since my hearing is so bad my VA doctor wants to give me a hearing aid. The ringing in my ears is so loud it used to keep my wife awake.

    Belfert I was thinking along the same lines as you when I did the google tire recall, looking for commercial tire problems/recalls.
    There ought to be a monitoring agency besides the lawyers.

I appreciate the votes of confidence on my tire choice, but every time I price Michelins the price has gone up or they list "call for pricing" which means to me that they are ashamed of the prices they are charging. Or don't keep them in stock because they are a slow seller.

I keep monitoring tire prices and am ready to buy earlier than needed, if I find a good sale.

One thing I did notice on the google tire recall was that all the tires recalled, except one, were SUV or half ton trucks. One tire was a load range E.

   Coach tires are only found at truck tire shops and truckers needs are different from ours. They usually care less about carcass life since the tread is quickly gone.

Many points to ponder.

Thanks to everyone else for their input.  I'd like to hear of problem brands/areas to avoid in case I can't afford the best (opinion) when the time comes.

Ed
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 08:55:56 AM »

I know one fact.  My Toyo tires "stink" - so don't put them on the front / steer axle, lest your nose be assualted every time you come in the bus!!!

Also, they are in short supply from time up in Northern Illinois, when I needed one when they in short supply, the price went WAAAAAYYYYYY UUUUUUUUUPP.

Embarrased to say how much it cost.  I think it was close to $500.

HTH - Phil
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 09:03:12 AM »

ED, tires are like ice cream pick your flavor all the manufactures make different grades and you are never going to wear the tire out the way most converted buses are used.I have had people tell me no way would I buy a BF Goodrich tire but will buy a Michelin made in the same factory in OKLA with the very same carcass.And you can get Michelin's that are made in China so watch the super buys on Michelins Tires  FWIW
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HB of CJ
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 02:25:55 PM »

Gary...thanks for posting your success with the quiet Michelin XZA3 "steer position" 11RX24.5 tires.  Ideally, I will be looking for a used set of ten (10) trucker's "take offs" in this size to put on my Crown 10-wheeler; hopefully with the forementioned front tire.  Now....if I can find the $perfect$ used set....mounted on polished Alcoas....the world would be perfect.  He he he.  CROWNS FOREVER!!  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 02:50:08 PM »

Anyone can say what they want, but I have been running Kumho's on charter buses 4 yrs now! I have had nothing but good wear, and use out of them! The only problems I have had were not at all because of the tire it self, such as picking up a piece of metal on the road and running the tire low causing it to ruin. I will admit that Kumho's have a very stiff bead/side wall, and our tire guys bitches everytime he has to dismount them, but he's also the one who sold me one them & still prefers them over others! We love 'm so much our family/shop dog is named after them! LOL! But hey we're only putting 60 to 100 thousand miles a yr on our buses so what do I know?
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