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Author Topic: PD4501- 599 Kingman, AZ, I got it YEA!!!!!  (Read 3931 times)
mike davis
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« on: February 17, 2008, 05:31:23 AM »


 for $3225 buy it now

 With 40 gals of fresh fuel, Battery's that are good enough start it  and 2 Tons of dirt!!!!

    mike
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Dallas
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2008, 05:43:40 AM »

I wouldn't have gone much more than $3120 and 39Ę  Wink

Congrats Mike! sounds like you have a new love in your life.

Just remember, she will need lots of care, feeding, tenderness and love. Then when you have spent your last penny on a shiny new doodad for her, she'll break your heart.. Oh! Sorry! that's wimmen! Your Scenic will be as faithful as a puppy, and pee on things just about as much!

Dallas
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 03:43:22 PM »

OK you got so where are the pictures?HuhHuh

Melbo

P.S. WE want pictures
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2008, 06:32:06 PM »

It was not listed as a Buy it Now.  How is this fair to the other bidders Mike?
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 06:45:13 PM »

Life ain't fair.

buy it now prices can be made at any time........and the auctions can also be ended at any time by the seller

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luvrbus
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 06:53:36 PM »

That bus was listed in the paper for 5000.00  OBO  Mike must have made the best offer
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 08:25:27 PM »

Mike must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.  Cool
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mike davis
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 06:37:18 AM »

Life ain't fair.

buy it now prices can be made at any time........and the auctions can also be ended at any time by the seller



tekebird

 I need your advice on this because I don't know if I'm being played with.  Yesterday morning at 4:45 am I got up and checked my evening messages.  I had made an offer to the seller at about 7:30 pm the day before and she had said that she was leaving in about 90 minutes then and she didn't like the previous offer so I countered her right then.  When I got up there was no messages in my eBay message so I immediately shot her off a message withdrawing the offer.  It also went out via eBay messenger and at that time the auction was still active.  Two hours later I signed it to see if anyone had bid and I found that she had closed the auction and sent me a message accepting the offer that I had withdrawn.  So, I don't know.  When my dad read all the emails.  He's P.O.ed at the seller and doesn't trust her.  So I don't know where to go with this. 

I'm just confused, and have also for the past couple of years triggered off if I catch a whiff of deceit in the air.  What's the difference in bargaining and out right lieing and B.Sing?  I don't know.

Sounds like a Dear Abby letter huh?

Thanks
Mike
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 02:37:37 PM »

Mike,

You have a problem. You should never have negotiated outside of eBay, no second chances and definately no buy it now offers that run anywhere outside of the eBay
system. Having phone conversations outside of the normal bidding process put you into a bad position legally. They also place the burden of making mistakes on you.

The seller accepted a sellers agreement when they listed the bus on eBay and must play by the rules they agreed to. Now you only option is to contact eBay and tell them what happened and how the seller tried an end-run to avoid eBay fees and bidding. There are legal issues here and you may end up needing a lawyer to save yourself from a lot of grief...

Dave....
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2008, 02:46:29 PM »

LAWYER!!!  WHOA!!   That be a very bad word.  I would not say you are in that deep yet.  The seller should be a little flexible with you.  Worst case I would say you might have to pay her $40 listing fee to make her happy but I would doubt it.  My recommendation is that all of your communication from here on is all via writing so there is no he said she said mess.  Good luck!
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 02:51:47 PM »

1st negotiating outside of the ebay process is verbotten!  although it is done regularly.

if you negotiated in the ebay process and she did it as a buy it now and you bid and won you are inside the process.

if you did this through the make an offer deal ebay has now....you did it, thats a commitment to buy......I don;t think there is an option to cancel your offer via ebay...and if there was she would have known about it.

not knowing how you commui=ncated or struck the deal I can'y offer much guidance.

but it sounds like you made a deal you have to sleep with.....buyer being an asshole or not.




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tekebird
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 06:19:01 PM »

Mike, I just read the other post.

just because you communicated through ebay's system does not make your offer and counteroffers valid in thier eyes.

you operated in violation of Ebay policies, unless the seller actually created a buy it now at the auction site for that item and you clicked the buy it now link.

actually both of you are in violation of ebay rules, and by communicated your "Off ebay" deal through thier system they now have record f the communications.

you are both in danger of being suspended from Ebay for circumventing thier rules and fees.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2008, 08:18:37 PM »

I've had sellers decide to not sell the item after I won the auction. When I complained to ebay the response was not helpfull. Basically I was told I could get a refund. When I re-explained that the seller refused to sell me the item because "it was unfit for sale", I was told "at least you are not out any money".

ebay is all about collecting listing fees & doesn't do much more than provide lip service. The worst thing I have noticed is a negative feedback or banned as that user. Big deal.


Mike, you made an offer & they accepted. If you want to back out, offer them $100 to cover relisting & their time, OR let them leave a neg feedback. I'm guessing they'd rather have the $$

Sounds like you got a good price on it, so just get it & enjoy it. You are one of the few to actually own one  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2008, 08:53:24 PM »

I don;lt think you can bitch about not getting an item that you didn;t pay for.

now for actual transactions......neglecting to follow through is Wire Fraud as the ebay sale is a binding contract.

from the sounds of this it was all done off ebay...so no party has any recourse other than to point out to ebay they both were cheating them......which will get both of them booted

HOnestly, sounds more like a buyers remorse type thing......Mike you offered x ammount for the 4501 you always wanted...they agreed.

Pay them and go get your bus..
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 02:33:59 AM »

People get very wound-up about doing things the 'proper Ebay way', but that has little bearing in law. Imagine you and the seller are standing in the middle of a field and negotiating with each other; if you reach an agreement then you have a legally-binding contract with each other - exactly how you negotiated and whether or not Ebay own the field (ie. website) where you met is totally immaterial.

A verbal contract has the same legal weight as a written contract, but obviously is much more difficult to enforce when things go wrong. Also, remember that there is no statutory 'cooling off period' in this kind of negotiation, so there is no 'withdrawing an offer' or anything like that.

I have been in similar situations myself - just this week I lost an item of furniture I really wanted because the seller broke the contract - ultimately though, although you could pursue the seller (or they you) you need to  first need to decide if it was really worth it - at the end of the day the world's full of old buses.

Jeremy

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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 05:04:32 AM »

I agree partially.

if the auction would have ended on it's own accord....and then a deal was struck then ebay doesn't get or possibly deserve thier cut.

however, if the deal was struck during an active auction...then ebay does.....especially if one or both of the parties want/expect any protection in the deal by ebay.



as for what ebay can do?

Well I bought a small sailboat several years ago.....well it ended up showing up missing some key parts.....which was not disclosed by the seller.....well through paypal/ebay and my credit card.....I disputed the sale.......and won.......due to the nondisclosure of the seller.

Also due to the nature of the beast, cost to return ship and storage during this whole process (over 6 months) I stated I would be happy to return the boat for the cost of storage and at his expense.

needless to say.......I kept possession of the boat  ( legally)

one of those things where the parts to make whole exceded the value of the boat ( retail pricing)

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mike davis
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 06:07:03 AM »

I agree partially.

if the auction would have ended on it's own accord....and then a deal was struck then ebay doesn't get or possibly deserve thier cut.

however, if the deal was struck during an active auction...then ebay does.....especially if one or both of the parties want/expect any protection in the deal by ebay.


tekebird
as for what ebay can do?

Well I bought a small sailboat several years ago.....well it ended up showing up missing some key parts.....which was not disclosed by the seller.....well through paypal/ebay and my credit card.....I disputed the sale.......and won.......due to the nondisclosure of the seller.

Also due to the nature of the beast, cost to return ship and storage during this whole process (over 6 months) I stated I would be happy to return the boat for the cost of storage and at his expense.

needless to say.......I kept possession of the boat  ( legally)

one of those things where the parts to make whole exceded the value of the boat ( retail pricing)



tekebird

Let me try to explain this again.  EBay messenger, the contact seller link, all of my contacts with the seller were through that link.  I first asked her if she had a buy it now price.  She asked me to make an offer, but I did not want to offend her by bidding extremely lower than she had in mind.  (Come to find out she was asking $5000 locally.)  This went back and forth on the Ebay messenger for several rounds.  I made her an offer, she came back at me that no, she didn't want that and she was leaving in 90 minutes.  I immediately made her another offer for $75 more.  This is all on eBay messenger now, there was no "make an offer" option on the auction. 

Well, when I didn't hear back from her in 7 hours I figured she didn't like it or refused the offer that I'd made her through Ebay messenger.  I sent her a message saying that "I withdraw my buy it now offer, but I will continue budding."   Then I go to check where the bid is at like two hours later and the auction had been closed and that I was the winner for the last bid price."  Well, the last bid price and the offer I had withdrawn were $1200 different. 

So, is she trying to screw eBay and in the process of trying to screw eBay also screwing me on the buyer protection.  That to me looked dishonest.  And, a little bit of the screwing around in the back and fourth on eBay messenger.  I'm going to close the eBay account.  It doesn't have any of my financial information in it.  I'd be more than happy to let anyone log in and read the messages. 

Also, this is my thought...if she's trying to screw eBay, then did the coach even start and air up like she said it did?  Also, there's no title.  Is there a person even there to sign the right paperwork for AZ DMV?  I don't want to go though a 90 day abandonment lien sale because it's on the property.  Some of you know what I mean. 

The way I think is if I see a person screw around in one thing I question everything they do and so does my dad.  So, we decided that we don't want to get involved with that coach.  Maybe I'm over-reacting but, Hell.  We've been screwed before on eBay concerning an MCI.  So she can keep 599.

Mike

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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 06:25:26 AM »

Alot of the things posted in this thread is why it difficult to buy things like busses on ebay.  If you can't put your hands on it, how do you know what you are getting.  Unless it is at such a price that it is worth the risk I would stay closer to home.  I actually found my bus on ebay but it did not sell.  Being less than 2 hours away, I went and looked at it twice and made a deal.  Anyway, if you are going to deal on the bay it is best to have the issues (title work etc...) worked out before bidding/dealing.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2008, 06:37:09 AM »

Mike - A couple of observations on your last post:

1) Using Ebay's messenger system to negotiate a deal directly with the seller is the same as negotiating off Ebay entirely - you can reach a legally-binding agreement with the seller, but it does NOT afford you any of the protections that you would have reached had you clicked on a 'Buy It Now' or 'Make Offer' button on the auction itself. (Bear in mind that such a negotiation is invisible and therefore unfair to other bidders, and of course Ebay don't earn any selling fees, so why should they offer any protection?). However, you situation is complicated by point 2 below:

2) I don't think it was made clear before that the auction was ended correctly by the seller using the 'Sell now to highest bidder' option within Ebay. This is crucial as it means you now DO have Ebay's protection, and the seller is now obliged to sell you the item at the price of your last bid. This is good news for you, although by the sounds of it the seller did not realise what the implications of her actions were, and she will no doubt expect you to honour your higher 'off Ebay' offer - but then you made that offer in good faith, so why wouldn't you?

From an outsider's perspective it does sound like you may be mis-interpreting the seller's actions and assuming she is trying to 'pull a fast one', whereas she might just be acting out of ignorance. Her actions have actually ensured she WILL pay Ebay fees, and that you ARE the guarenteed buyer with full Ebay protection. I would have a chat with her and try to resolve the confusion, agree what price you are going to pay (bearing in mind you had no right to withdraw an offer previously made), and go and collect your bus. (Apologies if I have misunderstood the situation, or there are facts I don't know about).

Jeremy

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luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2008, 06:38:15 AM »

I have never bought from Ebay but will be trying to buy a Eagle bus. I was told if the bus does not meet his reserve at the end of the auction he can negotiate with me is this true or not
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2008, 06:39:19 AM »

Hate to be a party poop here but.... Huh The first post said you had a deal for $3225. and sounded liked you were happy.
I thought it was a done deal.
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2008, 06:43:40 AM »

The Seller on E*** was the one who contractualy agreed to pay E*** a "commission", not Mike, and If he was messaging on the E*** messenger then they should have a record of it. Mike was not responsible for paying the listing/sale fee, the seller was. Negotiating with the seller is not circumventing the rules. Also the seller should not have ended the auction early without a deposit (paypal or Huh?)

FWIW
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2008, 06:46:16 AM »

I have never bought from Ebay but will be trying to buy a Eagle bus. I was told if the bus does not meet his reserve at the end of the auction he can negotiate with me is this true or not

Sure - if the bus doesn't sell in the auction then Ebay are no longer involved - the seller has effectively just paid for a classified advert, and buyers are free to approach him in the normal way.

How about a new poll - Where did you find your bus? Dealer / Classified Advert / Ebay auction etc.

Jeremy
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2008, 06:54:54 AM »

The Seller on E*** was the one who contractualy agreed to pay E*** a "commission", not Mike, and If he was messaging on the E*** messenger then they should have a record of it. Mike was not responsible for paying the listing/sale fee, the seller was. Negotiating with the seller is not circumventing the rules. Also the seller should not have ended the auction early without a deposit (paypal or Huh?)

FWIW

The Seller will already have had to pay Listing Fees, and will now also have to pay Selling Fees, even if Mike pulls out, (although it is possible to get Selling Fees later credited back after a period of time for 'Non Paying Bidders')

Ebay will have a record of the messages to-and-fro, but then so do both the buyer and seller. I strongly suspect the fact that the auction was eventually ended correctly effectively over-rides anything that was discussed previously however. Ebay certainly wouldn't be interested, and I suspect a court wouldn't either

Negotiating with the seller outside the auction IS circumventing Ebay's rules.

The seller certainly should have got a deposit before ending the auction.

Jeremy



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Sojourner
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2008, 09:23:41 AM »

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Sometime I wonder if this is a make believe owner of big-ticket idem to earn a few dollars via this transaction process. Unless she/he didnít get any of the $599 of your money.
May I ask who get the share or all of your money? E*** or seller or both?

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2008, 09:29:08 AM »

I bought my bus on Ebay and the seller wanted me to send him a cashiers check within 24 hours of the end of the auction.

The bus is 250 miles away and so is the title.

Kind of makes you nervous but it all worked out and he delivered the bus.

and I'm very happy with my bus

Just my experience

Melbo
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2008, 10:05:54 AM »

As for "I don;lt think you can bitch about not getting an item that you didn;t pay for."
It is the same damn thing as refusing to pay & the seller bitching about a bead beat bidder. A contract is a contract & breaking it is the same weather you are the seller or the buyer.

Mike, you sounded enthusiastic about your buy it now offer, why the retraction?
Get on the phone & talk it out. Lots gets left out with short emails.

That is not too bad a price. You aren't likely to find more bus for less $$.

From the ad "We do reserve the right to end this auction early" so, there isn't anything wrong with them ending it early - THAT was disclosed in the ad copy.

Also from the ad "You will receive a bill of sale when you pic this up....." - that means there is no title. Titles weren't generally issued for buses in the 50's & some of mine were NEVER titled. There are ways to get a title, it varies from state to state & to whom you talk to at the DMV.

"You will have to tow this...or flatbed as a choice of removel as it is not street worthy..." Sounds like the seller is being up front. I'd guess the bus does start up & air up just as they said. AND after moving a couple of these, I'd also be very weary of just hopping in & trying to drive it off. Things like the steel braided air lines get very brittle over time & can break easily BTDT. Also, the rubber diaphragms don't usually have a great service life after sitting up for so long.


So, to get her home, either make the repairs where she sits & drive her, OR hire a Landoll type trailer to move her to a suitable location where you can take care of her service needs.
I paid $95/ hour + 15% fuel surcharge to have 011 moved. No surprises & no damage.

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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2008, 10:47:26 AM »

from what has been recently posted.....seller is above board as far as ebay goes.

Buyer has buyers remorse or something.

although that was not the proper "ebay" way for them to communicate and make the deal.

Seller should have just said bid.....she could have easily made more....so by ending it early she did the buyer a favor and saved him a couple bucks.

What is suspect is we are dealing in increments of less than 100.00 and people are worried about it......keepin mind it is going to take thousands in parts and hundreds of man hours to get that thing road worthy...and presentable.

I suspect if you can find the upper windshields whoever has them wil want 3k or better for the set.

as far as buying big ticket on ebay.........IMHO, your an idiot if you bid on something without laying hands on it......even my folks 4108 which has been on ebay......we have only had a hand full of people bother to come see her.

Another option is to commuincate with the seller that you will send the deposit as per the listing but your bid is contigent on your inspection......most who have nothing to hide will agree.......also nice if you offer to pay the relisting fees as well as original listing fees for this understanding.

Seller really only has legal claim to the ammount bid...noit the offer......but just give her the offered the retracted offer ammount...hell we are talking 75.00




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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2008, 11:18:02 AM »

When we were looking for a bus to buy we got lucky and found her on E-bay.  The PO was very upfront about making sure that before he would complete the sell that we had to come and physically look at the bus and make sure all was as he had stated in his add.  It was and we drove home in a great bus that we are enjoying the fun and frustrations of being a busnut.
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2008, 11:26:17 AM »

I suspect if you can find the upper windshields whoever has them wil want 3k or better for the set.

If you want real pricing for parts for a Scenicruiser, I'd suggest talking to someone that has one.

I don't suspect, I know.

Last I talked to him, Pat McNeil offered me the upper windshields for $900 each.


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Dreamscape
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2008, 12:25:52 PM »

I must be an idiot because I bought our Eagle on eBay in 2003. The owner was very honest and up front regarding the condition. I did not even have to send him a deposit. After flying out to Ohio from California and meeting him, checked out the bus, took her out for a spin and handed him a certified bank check. Before I handed him the check he said "If you don't want the bus that's OK".

I understand that not everyone will have a good experience, but some do. I was lucky to have been one of them.

I do not ever regret the purchase. I believe I go a fair deal, in fact I think I got a great deal.

You just have to be careful and use common sense in all dealings. Communication is the key in making a decision.

FWIW,

Happy Trails,

Paul
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2008, 01:48:30 PM »

Seems to me the OP was happy with the price when he entered the header for this thread.  I'm not sure what's changed.  Like someone else has already said - you made the deal, pay the man (or woman) and get on with life.

As far as expecting any assistance from ebay goes - - don't.  I've bought a lot of stuff on ebay and sold a little too.  Have had one incident in I don't know how many years of dealing there and it was clear that ebay had no interest whatsoever in helping to get a resolution.  Fortunately I had paid with my credit card. 
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2008, 01:53:39 PM »

Well I don't know both sides of this story so it's easy to speculte who dod what when & where, as a matter of fact that's the only thing that can be done!
Now what I do know is I have bought 2 buses, 1 limo, 1 rebuilder special pick up (fancy term for severly wrecked LOL!), & 1 bad *** pick up truck on ebay, 3 tow trucks (these are my big ticket items) and many smaller items! I have also sold a bus, 2 tow trucks and many smaller items, and to this day I have never had a problem with either the sellers, buyers or even Ebay. I never sent a deposit before showing up with cash or cashiers checks in hand to inspect and complete the deals. Before bidding I explained thru the ebay contact seller link that this was my standard way of doing business, and asked if they had any problems with me bringing a cashiers check or cash at time of inspection to either finish or terminate the deal if it was not what was advertised (condition, etc.). Every time I asked I was very quickly told that would be fine! So far I have had great results in dealing this way. If a seller is honest, they will not object at all to this plan. If the seller refuses to accept this way of dealing, IT IS BUYER BEWARE & you should be ready to accept what ever loss you experience if you continue to deal with a seller such as this. FWIW JMHO Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
mike davis
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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2008, 07:11:17 PM »

Well I don't know both sides of this story so it's easy to speculte who dod what when & where, as a matter of fact that's the only thing that can be done!
Now what I do know is I have bought 2 buses, 1 limo, 1 rebuilder special pick up (fancy term for severly wrecked LOL!), & 1 bad *** pick up truck on ebay, 3 tow trucks (these are my big ticket items) and many smaller items! I have also sold a bus, 2 tow trucks and many smaller items, and to this day I have never had a problem with either the sellers, buyers or even Ebay. I never sent a deposit before showing up with cash or cashiers checks in hand to inspect and complete the deals. Before bidding I explained thru the ebay contact seller link that this was my standard way of doing business, and asked if they had any problems with me bringing a cashiers check or cash at time of inspection to either finish or terminate the deal if it was not what was advertised (condition, etc.). Every time I asked I was very quickly told that would be fine! So far I have had great results in dealing this way. If a seller is honest, they will not object at all to this plan. If the seller refuses to accept this way of dealing, IT IS BUYER BEWARE & you should be ready to accept what ever loss you experience if you continue to deal with a seller such as this. FWIW JMHO Grin  BK  Grin

Busted Knuckle

  that is what I'll offer

I'll be in AZ within 10 days The ice storms are the only thing stopping me from leavening MO


          mike
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wvanative
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« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2008, 05:23:52 AM »

Well I don't know both sides of this story so it's easy to speculte who dod what when & where, as a matter of fact that's the only thing that can be done!
Now what I do know is I have bought 2 buses, 1 limo, 1 rebuilder special pick up (fancy term for severly wrecked LOL!), & 1 bad *** pick up truck on ebay, 3 tow trucks (these are my big ticket items) and many smaller items! I have also sold a bus, 2 tow trucks and many smaller items, and to this day I have never had a problem with either the sellers, buyers or even Ebay. I never sent a deposit before showing up with cash or cashiers checks in hand to inspect and complete the deals. Before bidding I explained thru the ebay contact seller link that this was my standard way of doing business, and asked if they had any problems with me bringing a cashiers check or cash at time of inspection to either finish or terminate the deal if it was not what was advertised (condition, etc.). Every time I asked I was very quickly told that would be fine! So far I have had great results in dealing this way. If a seller is honest, they will not object at all to this plan. If the seller refuses to accept this way of dealing, IT IS BUYER BEWARE & you should be ready to accept what ever loss you experience if you continue to deal with a seller such as this. FWIW JMHO Grin  BK  Grin

Busted Knuckle

  that is what I'll offer

I'll be in AZ within 10 days The ice storms are the only thing stopping me from leavening MO


          mike

Mike, I think it's a little late to make this offer to the seller as the deal has already been made. This offer should be made before any bidding has taken place so if the seller does not agree you then move on to a different bus.

WVaNative
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Dean Hamilton Villa Grove, IL East Central IL. Near Champaign
Still Dreaming and planning
jackhartjr
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2008, 09:26:10 PM »

Mike, where do you stand on this now?

Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
1956 GMC PD-4501 #945 (The Mighty SCENICRUISER!)
8V71 Detroit
4 speed Spicer Trannsmission
Hickory, NC, (Where a call to God is a local call!)
Hartley
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« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2008, 09:18:08 AM »

Guys, I can already see where this is going... Not a good sign...

Usually when people start flip-flopping things can only go from bad to worse.

I probably wouldn't be far from wrong if the whole mess just blows up or
Mike in his exhuberance ends up with a $5,000 tow bill and a forgotten
dream. I have been there and it is not fun.

I put over $3,000 in labor in #598
only to basically give it away and I doubt the new owner will be able to resurrect
it even now. Just one of those no-win deals.

Mike,
Good Luck and be very careful, When you really see the bus, You can walk away
and chock it up to education. A little poorer but a lot wiser...

Dave....
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Never take a knife to a gunfight!
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