Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 25, 2014, 06:04:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It can be read on any computer, iPad, smart phone, or compatible device.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: L16 for house batteries? Or would you recommend something else?  (Read 2382 times)
TrevorH
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 122




Ignore
« on: February 19, 2008, 01:55:16 PM »

I have been doing some research for my house batteries and just wanted to get some input.  I am leaning towards 2 L16's.  I dont want to break the bank so any input on other types, models, brands, where to buy etc I REALLY appreciate!  I am also leaning towards both starting and house being 24v, I have already purchased a Vanner 100 amp equlizer (if anyone is looking for one, I know where you can pick one up for about $375, pm me).
Logged

1987 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 5 spd MT
Tucson, AZ
HB of CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1264




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 03:04:04 PM »

We considered the L18, but isn't the L18 about the same size and weight as the 8D starting battery?....which means big and heavy at about 125 pounds or sooss.  Of course, its quite possible we are wrong toos.  Feeble minds here.

Have your considered the smaller AGM type deep cycle cells?  The understanding is that they are pretty much maintenance free, don't require any special care, usually (never?) require frequent watering and usually don't emit lots (any?) of hydrogen gas.

They also may enjoy a much quicker recharge rate than the old style lead-acid type.  Enough of a difference here that the gen fuel savings over the battery life may be $significant$.  Hundreds of bucks.

Much easier to carry around and mount.  Smaller physically if space is a problem.  Do require more inter-connective cables.  May NOT (maybe) require physical venting and may lend themselves more vibration and bump resistant.  Have been even mounted sideways.

The down side is that the AGM type of battery is much more $expensive$ than the lead-acid type.  A bunch more.  The upside is that the service life is much longer in a motorcoach application. .

Pro and cons to either type.  At our age and physical condition, the size and weight of each battery became important enough for us to reject the big batteries as being too heavy for comfort.  Your situation and choice may be different.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
Logged
TrevorH
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 122




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2008, 03:13:30 PM »

Any suggestions on AGM type batteries as far as how many I need, and brand or company preference?  A little background, I havent figured everything out just yet but I will be running 2 LCD TV's, decent stereo, microwave, and probably be using a house fridge.  I am undecided what to do about a hot water heater, and ac.  But firing up the genny wont be a big deal.  I will be doing mostly boondocking.
Logged

1987 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 5 spd MT
Tucson, AZ
HB of CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1264




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2008, 03:24:58 PM »

We had about the exact same questions and lots of very knowledgeable coach convertors who have been there and done that helped us out.  I have forgotten the exact post topic and date.  Try the archives or others who have helped us out before will help you out now.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
Logged
Jerry Liebler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1320




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2008, 03:42:31 PM »

Trevor,
     If you use L16's and have a 24 volt house system you'll need 4 of them, as each is a 6 volt battery.  This would give you about a 400 amp hour @ 24 volt battery bank.  The advantage of L16's is they give the most energy storage per area of foot print.  This is because they are about 16 " tall and each weighs a bit over 100 pounds.  The lowest cost per amount of stored energy is by using 6 volt golf cart batteries.  8 golf cart (T105) batteries would give about the same stored energy but would take twice the floor space but only be about 9 " tall.   The T105s weigh about 60 pounds each so they are much more back friendly.  Both of these alternatives require regular addition of distilled water and produce corrosive, explosive fumes that must be properly vented.  AGM's require no watering and produce no explosive or corrosive fumes but cost about twice as much.  The most economical AGM size is a 12 volt 100 amp battery, with these you would need 8 for about the same capacity.  I have 4 L16's & when they die I'll be replacing them with AGMs.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
Logged
jjrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2313

MCI5C/N Ft Myers FL




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2008, 05:22:51 PM »

A fellow that used to post here suggested starting with T105 (golf cart) batteries from Sams club as they were the most bang for the buck. The theory being this would be your starter or practice set, destroying this set of batteries would not take a large chunk out of the family fortune. His theory being that batteries dont die they are murdered.
 I took this advise and 5 years later am still useing the original 4 batteries set up for 24V. I find this to be sufficent for my needs. I also at his suggestion purchased a Link 10 battery monitor, pricey but a good way to learn about battery useage.
                                                   HTH Jim
Logged

Remember, even at a Mensa convention someone is the dumbest person in the room!

http://photobucket.com/buspictures

http://photobucket.com/buspictures
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2008, 05:54:48 PM »

Yup, the common wisdom is shop for golf cart batteries.

Cost per amp/hour is one criteria, physical size and space used is another, venting can be a wooden box, some piping and a grill, watering is a 5 minute once a month check, if you have a quality way to keep them charged.

I concur, too many experienced professionals on here and elsewhere agree: batteries last a long time with good planning and a disciplined minimum of attention.

Ignore them at the peril of your wallet!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6854





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 09:54:54 PM »

After experiencing the luxury of having Lifeline AGM batteries, even if you gave me wet batteries, I'd go out and buy the AGM.  I have two 8D's that are 255 amp hours each.  About the only thing you have to do to them is to make sure the terminals are tight.  If you're thinking of the L16's, I would suggest instead the 6CT 6v Lifeline AGM that puts out 300 amps and weighs 93lbs apiece.  The advantage to this is, you could run four in series for 24 v and if you have a space problem, AGM batteries can be mounted on their side-how's that for access?  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2008, 05:51:57 AM »

What about Universal Power Group AGM batteries?  I found an 8D AGM battery from them for $350.  I need to find out if it is deep cycle or starting.

See http://www.staabbattery.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=staab&Product_Code=UB-8D-V&Category_Code=sla-12

That website is just the first place I saw a Universal battery.  I have no idea if that is the best price or not.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
jjrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2313

MCI5C/N Ft Myers FL




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2008, 06:13:10 AM »

Can the hi-tech batteries, AGM etc be damaged by over dischargeing?
Logged

Remember, even at a Mensa convention someone is the dumbest person in the room!

http://photobucket.com/buspictures

http://photobucket.com/buspictures
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 06:28:38 AM »

What about Universal Power Group AGM batteries?  I found an 8D AGM battery from them for $350.  I need to find out if it is deep cycle or starting.

See http://http://www.staabbattery.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=staab&Product_Code=UB-8D-V&Category_Code=sla-12

That website is just the first place I saw a Universal battery.  I have no idea if that is the best price or not.


Okay, quoting myself here.  I did call Staab Battery about the Universal Power Group batteries.  The salesperson said the Universal batteries are deep cycle, but the Lifeline batteries will handle at least twice as many discharge cycles and thus last longer, but they cost twice as much.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6854





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 08:57:31 AM »

8D batteries are fine, but weigh around 160lbs (a mother to move-especially by your self).  The 6v 6CT weighs in at a more manageable 93lbs.

AGM batteries are sensitive to over volting on charging.  As long as the charge rate isn't higher than 14.1 volts, you can pump in practically as much amperage as you want since the AGM has alot less resistance inside from the more efficient design.  When I had normal wet 8D's I could only charge at 40 amps.  Now I have the charger set at 93 amps for the AGM's.  Really speeds up the charge time.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
TrevorH
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 122




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 09:17:41 AM »

If my starting bank was 2 traditional cheapee walmart special group 31's and I had my house batteries as 4 6CT's and charged them off the factory alternator, would this be a potential issue?  Is there some kind of regulator etc that I would need to install to prevent damage?
Logged

1987 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 5 spd MT
Tucson, AZ
Lee Bradley
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 714




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 09:39:40 AM »

Trevor,
I am looking at this regulator to control the alternator for the house batteries. http://www.amplepower.com/products/sarv3/index.html
Logged
Tenor
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 991



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2008, 09:46:20 AM »

I've never heard of anyone needing to add a second regulator, but your plan is good and I am doing the same thing.  Using 2 group 31's to start the bus with these batteries in the rear with a master disconnect.  Then, the location of the old 8D's will be used for 2 AGM's which can use the original master disconnect to charge them from the bus alternator while under way.  The alternator will also supply enough juice to run 2 rooftop air conditioners.  I'll disconnect the bus systems from the original master disconnect, and just attach them to the hot terminal from the alternator since the bus disconnect will be upstream.
Logged

Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
H3Jim
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398


1995 Prevost H3-41, series 60, B500 Allison




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2008, 11:30:56 AM »

Its a good idea to determine how much power (amp hours) you need to have before you buy the batteries.  Its best to buy all the batteries at the same time, and of course of the same type.  Make a stab at estimating your requirements.  You can never be too rich or too thin or have too much battery capacity.

I boondock most of the time, and have 600 amp hours at 24 volts.  Rarely do I ever get close to 50% discharged.  I never try to run the air conditioners from the batteries, and I have a very efficient Sunfrost refrigerator.  My biggest draw would be in the am cooking eggs, making coffee, making toast listinening to music all at the same time.  Draws a lot, but then the solar puts it back the rest of the day.
Logged

Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

Travel is more than the seeing of sights, it is a change that goes on, deep  and permanent, in the ideas of living.
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2008, 01:57:50 PM »

These folks:

http://home.altenergystore.com/

Have a lot of reading under their "learn" tab at the top of the homepage.

All things alternate energy and living off the grid. A load calculator too.

I bought my Trace inverter from them a few years back.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
Tony LEE
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 393



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2008, 02:49:24 PM »

"Can the hi-tech batteries, AGM etc be damaged by over dischargeing?"

Yes - as can all lead acid batteries.

AGMs are "happy" being discharged down to 40% on a regular basis vs 50% for regular flooded batteries, and this extra 20% of capacity helps to reduce the cost premium of the AGMs over flooded.
Logged

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!