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Author Topic: Bio Diesel Again  (Read 4510 times)
JohnEd
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2008, 04:16:13 PM »

Teke,

I agree with all that with one exception.  Holding that attitude keeps you alert to the BS but it also closes the mind to new or even valid supporting info.  But I agree with you....really.

Lin,

I was perusing the shelves at Borders a couple days ago.  Specifically looking for data on this topic.  I found a book by a "Kemp" , I think, that was almost 5 inches thick.  He is a professor and almost entirely occupied with alternative fuels.  That "tome" was devoted to the Bio issue and WVO and SVO and WMO.  His was the seminal reference work on the subject as close as I could tell.  It seems that there are a number of really prestigious Universities that are deep into this subject and have labs for dedicated Bio research.  One that I read about, and I think it was Colorado, used sawdust as a compost heap to warm the waste oil for part of the processing that required heat.  They had a big pile of compost piled down the side of a hill with barrels buried and pipes running through it.  They were making Bio from WVO and their goal was almost no purchased energy being used in their process.  Really a neat story, I mean really neat what these young CONSERVATIVES were cooking up(no pun intended).  Oh yeah, the compost heap caught fire with the barrels in the middle in the winter and they had to call out the FD to put it out with high pressure water (what else?) hoses.  They knew it was headed to combustion because of all the sensors they had buried with all the barrels and pipes so they had the FD on-site with plenty of time to spare.  No oil burned and they didn't loose any of their apparatus.  The book sold for $29 and I will get it next week.  There has got to be a post or two in there.  Teke is right though....you have to watch out for those "true believers".

Happy trails,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2008, 04:50:51 PM »

like bio or not it's here to stay DD,Cat and Cummins have been working on Bio engines for the last 3 years John Deere is making farm equipment to use it. I think it's a great thing for the USA as I see farm land in Texas that hasn't been used in years being prepared for use canals being cleaned , the farmers making a few dollars and the fuel will get better in a short time as a Bio plant can be built in months not years and the price will get lower with time and improvements in production
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tekebird
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2008, 04:57:07 PM »

thats funny, because the entire corn belt is anti Biofuel as wellas our local PA farmers for the most part.


For those buying Bio.......just learned this about an hour ago from someone I know in the industry.

About 75% of all Bio Production does not meet the Fuel Products Standards.  that doesn;t mean it won't burn...just to say that the industry is not regulated strictly.

Our local plant in my home town has varaiations from batch to batch....pretty drastic variations.
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2008, 05:02:22 PM »

Do you think corn is the only product that can be used
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tekebird
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2008, 05:12:12 PM »

of course not....and thats not all they grow in the breadbasket of the US.

I just find it ammusing that Farmers in General are not in favor of a product that they can provide/sell the base ingredient for.

I have not heard but last month Kraft, one of the largest Schoolie operators in SE PA switched the entire fleet to B20
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2008, 05:22:04 PM »

[quote author=tekebird .

I just find it ammusing that Farmers in General are not in favor of a product that they can provide/sell the base ingredient for.

 It's  funny that the farmers are the ones building the 55 million dollar plant to make the fuel in Texas
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Stan
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« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2008, 05:33:57 PM »

If the farmers are building a $55m biodiesel plant, you better be checking to find out how many government dollars are involved. Farmers are not stupid, and biodiesel cannot compete price wise with dino fuel so there has to be subsidies somewhere.
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tekebird
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« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2008, 05:35:18 PM »

got me if you read my entire post I was talking about the breadbasket of the US kansas the nebraskas Etc etc and PA...not the south...... I don;t follow the news down that way.

I bet yas they get that plant built before Silver Eagle rolls out the first bus...LOL


maybe they can do a joint venture and it can roll out rnning on B100 Roll Eyes
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2008, 05:40:17 PM »

Teke, you have been dropped on you head 1 to many times try putting a pork chop around you neck and see if you can get the dogs to play with you
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tekebird
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« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2008, 05:45:32 PM »

JOhn, you just have to keep an open mind and really read the stats......

just like Light trucks......seems all through the 80's Ford and Chevy both had the best selling truck with the best resale price etc etc......

when you pay for studies....the present them in the light that you paid them to be.....skewing data is not uncommon in any industry.

I am just giving the warning.......considering all the BS I read....alot of which was refuted by people in the Bio industry and that are pro Bio.

it is a still a fringe group and fringe technology.......

No it won;t ruin your engine.....will just cost you X dollars to make it work (Bio) 2x or 3x to make the WVO work plus the possibility of Bio fuel related breakdowns.

last statement is based on Buying the stuff that is professional quality.....not stuff you stoll from your grandpappy's old stil up the holler

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tekebird
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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2008, 05:45:54 PM »

HUH?

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tekebird
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« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2008, 05:54:49 PM »

Hey two stroke......which plant are you talking about.....so I can edumacate myself......
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JohnEd
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« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2008, 10:45:39 AM »

Teke,

I think your cautions are well stated and well made.  Thank you for your opinion and good council.  In point of fact, Bio is NOT well regulated and a lot of bad stuff HAS been sold.  The spec IS MOST CERTAINLY THERE but the frequency of testing is abysmal as currently required.  The cost to run a full blown analysis is close to one thousand dollars per test.  Little guys/producers can't do much testing so the consumer suffers.  The universities are working on developing cheaper testing and the industry is calling for Gummint supported testing to protect the consumer and still promote Bio.  Some universities are offering testing at reduced charges and others are making their labs available to local "brewers" to come in and test their product.

Maybe there is a constructive tone missing in some of our posts.  I know that there is bad bio.  I know that GOOD bio can be made.  I know that the required testing periodicity and associated criteria are not sufficiently stringent.  etc, etc.  The need is too great and the potential benefits are proven so we all need to get behind this and make our informed voices heard.  I have an opening shot that I think is of paramount import:  This industry MUST BE KEPT COMPETITIVE and local to the greatest extent.  No more EXXON...No more ENRON.  We have suffered from the "economy of scale" that has brought us corrupt monoply designed to benefit the few at the expense of the many.  Based on dismal experience with the private sector I would even be supportive of nationalized BIO.  Seems to be working for Chavez and the Vens.  Hey, if EXXON is infuriated with him he must be at least partially OK.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.  Not to make this political, now.

If you know of a study done at a State Sponsored University that was skewed to the point of view of the sponsor of the study YOU CAN TAKE ACTION.  Your State U. is supported by your tax dollars and you are the beneficiary of their work product.  Your elected reps and Governor are your agents and if they are not doing their job vote them out in the gen elect or primary.  Look closely at who violated the integrity of the U and what their political affiliation has been.  This isn't a political discussion, this is Gummint 101 for High School and that course was cut from the curriculum by ?  in what year?  for what purpose?  and who benefited?

Ever the true conservative,(and i can prove it)

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
47FLXclipper
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« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2008, 01:45:02 PM »

just to add a little entertainment to this thread, a guy here on Vancouver Island salvaged a 1964 GMC SDH 5302 with a 6V71 with huge mileage on it in 2000, set it up with a crude 2 tank WVO system, and drove it 15,000 miles across Canada and back in 2001 for zero fuel cost .... I saw the bus a few years later, still running on WVO, and someone locally has it now, mostly parked, but roadworthy - there's a long
video here
of the [music group] tour of Canada, a little artsy, but interesting

Hal told me that Ottawa transit did a dyno/emissions test that said 95 hp on diesel, 103 hp on grease with less visible emissions [smelled like a donut shop to me Cheesy ] . . . .  a 2 tank system takes care of the temperature problem, starting and shutting down on straight diesel, run the WVO once warmed up

Bill
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1947 Flxible Clipper on Vancouver Island
tekebird
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« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2008, 02:29:11 PM »

a two tank systems is pretty much a necessity with SVO/WVO
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