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Author Topic: Is it legal for passengers to drink in an RV?  (Read 11609 times)
Dreamscape
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2008, 05:21:53 AM »

I think it's pretty simple really. Just keep all booze in the fridge or cabinets out of sight. One should never allow consuming alcohol while any vehicle is in operation. Just plain stupid.

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buswarrior
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2008, 06:54:10 AM »

And one must be concerned about other bodies of law...

In Ontario, motorcoaches are violating parts of the Liquor Control Act, by way of the licencing of establishments serving alcohol, etc. By allowing the consumption/serving of alcohol without the appropriate licence... like a bar serving without a licence.

This has been one of those "look the other way" unless there is a problem kind of things. The driver is stuck, as he has liability, but the tip is in jeopardy if he tells the group to stop...

Damned if we do, damned if we don't, the laws do come in handy for putting a stop to foolishness if it breaks out, so having it changed may actually hinder regaining control, for a commercial driver anyhoo...

Easy enough for a busnut, no drinking while underway, no problems.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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cody
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2008, 09:06:48 AM »

Most states seem to leave room for interpretation by the courts, thats why I stressed the difference between an open beer in a cup holder and the opened bottle of brandy in a cabinet, assessability can lead to the presumption of consumption.  Easy solution is to wait till your at your campsite and then relax and open the cooler. Why create a situation that could other wise throw a monkey wrench into your vacation.
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Green-Hornet
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2008, 10:01:54 AM »

In Florida the driver has to have a CDL to carry passengers in order to have passengers drink. Party bus -limo law if you will. Otherwise against the law.
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Sean
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2008, 10:03:04 AM »

CALIFORNIA CODE

23225. ...
   (c) This section shall not apply to the living quarters of a
housecar or camper.


23226.  ...
   (c) This section shall not apply to the living quarters of a
housecar or camper.


Niles,

As I said, California law permits the open containers to be stored in the living quarters.  Here's the code section that is relevant to the OP's question:

Quote
Drinking in Motor Vehicle

23221.  (a) No driver shall drink any alcoholic beverage while in a motor vehicle upon a highway.

(b) No passenger shall drink any alcoholic beverage while in a motor vehicle upon a highway.

Amended Sec. 2, Ch. 723, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000.


Note that Section 23221, which prohibits consumption of alcohol by any person in a vehicle "upon a highway" (what California calls any public road), contains no exemption for "living quarters."  What a police officer chooses to use as evidence of a violation of Section 23221(b) is a matter of his or her judgment, and you'd have to sort it out in court later.  If you are pulled over in California, and the officer finds what amounts to an open container of alcohol in the "constructive possession" of a passenger (such as an open beer in a cup holder), you can and most likely will be cited for a violation of 23221(b).  When you get to court, whipping out the "living quarters" exemption of completely different statues (23225 and 23226) will do you no good whatsoever until you have established that your passenger was not actually drinking at the time, or that whatever the officer used either as probable cause or as prima facie evidence of such consumption was incorrect.
[It has been pointed out to me, below, that section 23229(a) actually does exempt housecar living quarters from 23221(b).]
 
Many other states have similar legislation:  there are limited exemptions for storage of open containers in the living quarters, but those exemptions, by themselves, do not permit consumption while under way on a public road.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 09:50:16 PM by Sean » Logged

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H3Jim
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2008, 10:45:00 AM »

and in Lousiana, after going through a drive through daquiri bar, they define open container as having removed the paper from your straw.  If the paper is intact, you're ok.  amazing, especially in this day and age.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 12:56:42 PM by H3Jim » Logged

Jim Stewart
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Songman
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2008, 12:46:36 PM »

If they are, half of the music business buses running the roads are in trouble! haha..
I am pretty sure I recall that there is a legal difference in that matter between a commercial vehicle with a professional driver and a RV.  On a commercial vehicle with a professional driver, passengers can drink.  I assume this would include leased/rented limos and coaches with professional drivers (hence there are actually a few celebrities that haven't been to jail  Wink ).  But in a private RV (which would include motorhome licensed bus conversions) the same laws that apply to autos are in effect.  The latter being, no open containers in the vehicle.

Just a clarification here... Every tour bus (music artist bus) I have ever traveled on has been registered as a Private Coach and the drivers do not carry any special license. In fact, in most cases the members of the band take turns driving. The only exception I have to this is Travis Tritt. All of his buses are registered commercial and he has licensed drivers who handle all the driving. I'm sure most law enforcement agencies know this and could be buttheads about it, but maybe it is just a courtesy. So if/when stopped, most artist buses are held by private coach laws.
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WEC4104
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2008, 01:31:38 PM »

Hmmm.  I am thinking an iced down keg in the locked bay underneath, and a new plumbing system running to the upstairs.  Raises a whole new area of bus conversion questions...   Is PEX suitable for the lines, or is copper better?  Where can I get a CO2 pressure gauge for my dash?  What's the proper ratio for sizing my waste tanks?   Grin
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niles500
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2008, 03:24:00 PM »

Possession of Alcoholic Beverages: Exceptions
23229.  (a) Except as provided in Section 23229.1, Sections 23221 and 23223 do not apply to passengers in any bus, taxicab, or limousine for hire licensed to transport passengers pursuant to the Public Utilities Code or proper local authority, or the living quarters of a housecar or camper

You have to read the entire statute - In California "living quarters of a housecar or camper" are exempt - HTH
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Sean
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »

23229.  (a) ... Sections 23221 and 23223 do not apply to ... the living quarters of a housecar or camper


Missed that one.  I stand corrected, with regards to California.  (I had remembered this section only dealing with certificated carriers.)

-Sean
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2008, 07:31:31 AM »

All those entertainers/band buses running around, with whatever registrations and whatever drivers, are doing it for one simple reason: Avoid the proper costs of doing business.

No log books, no mechanical fitness, low levels of insurance, unqualified drivers, cheap plate tags.

Even more fun when the coach is a lease job too!

This group, more than any other, stand to ruin it for the busnut community, if the worm turns, since it is us they are trying to masquerade as...

Hide the guitars?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

 
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2008, 07:45:47 AM »

As buswarrior points out, when a bus is hauling people from or to a paid performance, it is in commercial service.
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Songman
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2008, 07:51:40 AM »

Good luck finding a lease band bus that will let you drive without a commercial license. Most lease buses come with driver's included as a matter of fact.

But I agree about the big conspiracy of entertainers trying to ruin it for private owners. They have been on a 60+ year crusade to do just that. Those bastards... Those are the guys who started the bus conversion hobby. I think it is us masquerading as them instead of the other way around. And just like the rest of us the laws have been changed to try to take more and more money out of their pockets. The laws are written with grey areas that work for them. No different than the rest of us.

A lot of assumptions made but I will address a couple. Even Travis with his commercial buses don't have to keep log books. And globbing all the drivers together as unqualified is a little pretentious. I have seen those guys work those buses into places I wouldn't take my pickup and never put a scratch on the coach. Most of them can drive circles around us 'bus converters' that apparently are more deserving then them.

And the 'one simple reason' of avoiding the proper cost of doing business. Sheesh! We all know about the proper cost of doing business that really equals how much the government can screw you out of. There is nothing proper about it. If they were breaking laws it wouldn't be so dominant. Like I said, they are in a grey area that allows them to do it. Nothing wrong with that. Anyone who wants to look down on it should look at all of the grey areas they themselves are riding in.
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Songman
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2008, 07:56:06 AM »

As buswarrior points out, when a bus is hauling people from or to a paid performance, it is in commercial service.

Are you sure about that? I know if the bus owner/company is being paid to haul people it is commercial. I don't know of the law that says that if the inhabitants get paid at their destination that it makes the bus commercial. The bus is not making any money. There are no ads on it. It is no different than if all the guys hopped in a van or carpooled.

I'd like to see the law that pinpoints it. I am not saying it doesn't exist, just that if it does it seems like it would be enforced. Yeah, I guess this is a bit of a sore spot for me. They've been doing it for 60 years and now all of a sudden they are infringing on us. I don't think so.
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2008, 08:44:48 AM »

It's called dablling in "Interstate Commerce"!
I was one of the first to point out to a lot of the Nashville and California guys that just because it has an OR Private Coach Plate and the entertainer pays the driver, it is still working in interstate commerce and is subjet to all of those laws. 
Man some of those guys were mad!  I thought one was going to run me out of town on a rail!  Or as Kyle says, I thought the "Buckshot Bees'" were going to be chasing me!
About the only thing they don't have is a Passenger Endorsement on their CDL because most of them only transport 6 to 8 bandmembers, not the 15-passengers plus the driver that makes the Passenger endorsement required.
Jack
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