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Author Topic: Breather on bus  (Read 2807 times)
Bob Gil
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« on: February 24, 2008, 02:28:34 PM »

Ok I have been looking at the pictures I took of the bus and posted a while back.

 I noticed that there is nothing on top of the intake in the line of an air filter. 

I am use to big trucks that have ducted breathers but I don't see where some thing like that would work here. 

Can some one here tell what they have on their dietriots from filter on the intake?

Bob in Cowtown
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
Dallas
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2008, 03:00:52 PM »

Someone stole it!  Wink
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2008, 03:03:05 PM »

I am afraid so but I got to find out what it was before I can find one to replace it.

Not sure what I am looking for yet.
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
Dallas
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 03:13:03 PM »

if it's like many of the 71 series engines, it's a rubber tube that goes to the air cleaners.


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gus
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 03:26:38 PM »

If it is like a 4104 with 671 the air enters high upon

 both sides through small gills, goes through three oil bath air cleaners into a large rubber bellows shaped tube into the air box.

It appears to be an 871 so I'm not that familiar with that setup.

It would really help if all posters included their bus model in their signatures.
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PD4107-152
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2008, 03:34:53 PM »

I think it is a 6V53 or that is what I have beeb told.

I will check the valvue covers next time I am down there.

Not sure of the model number still trying to figure that one out too.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 03:38:23 PM by Bob Gil » Logged

Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
tekebird
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2008, 04:08:42 PM »

looks like  53 to me

does it still have the oil bath filters or where they stolen too
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2008, 04:49:01 PM »

I don't see any thing.

I am not sure what I would be looking for.

I was wondering is the space on left side about the same height as the tail light the intake where the intake could be or is that a breather for the inside of the coach?
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2008, 05:08:17 PM »

Bob: I have a lot of trouble with your terminology. The combustion air for your engine goes into the blower on top of the engine. Notice the funnel shaped piece with the rubber flex hose connected to the top of it. I can't see the top end of the hose but it should connect to the air cleaners.

You refer to valve covers and breathers and that is a different thing. If you are talking about the breather that vents the crankcase, there should be a vent pipe coming off one valve cover going down the side of the engine toward the ground.
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2008, 05:23:56 PM »

My engine does not have a blower.

I don't think it does anyway.  I am a MACK man not sure about Detroit's.

Blow is a picture of the top of my engine with arrow pointing to the opening i think should be where it takes in the combustion aid for the engine.  I see where there was something mounted on it but I don't see where a breather filter was mounted. 

Other than this opening i don't see where the engine could get it's air.  I don't see and rubber big enough to carry the amount of air it would need to run.


My engine is not mounted like the one that Dallas posted the picture was taken from the side.  When you open the back door you see the front of the engine with the exhaust on both side of the bus and the trany going straight farward.

Bob
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 05:26:57 PM by Bob Gil » Logged

Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
Dallas
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2008, 05:36:58 PM »

If it doesn't have a blower, it's not a 2 cycle Detroit engine.

2 cycle Detroit's won't run without a blower because they do not intake air naturally.

We really need some more information, engine number, infromation off the valve cover decals, etc.

I've also been trying to decode the 13 digit VIN that you posted on another thread and can't find anything in my books to compare it to. All VIN numbers after 1980 are 17 digits and contain quite a bit of information, pre1980 Vins don't contain as much information, but still follow certain formulae... this one doesn't seem to.
Some really good photos of the engine, both close up and at about 5-6' would be good too.

Dallas
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2008, 05:40:09 PM »

Maybe it does have a blower.  I am not much on Detirots.


I am more filmure with turbos on macks and cummins.

The opening might be the top of a blower I am not sure.  I hope to get to over and get some more pictures this week.  I have to go over and get the finaly payment made any way.
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2008, 05:52:11 PM »

you need to send more photos......or the roof of the engine compartment.  the intake grill on the corner of the bus is the combustion air intake.

being that ther eis little fire damage in the engine comaprtment I am guessing that the fire was in the intake side and may have been removed.
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skipn
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2008, 08:29:59 PM »


 Just as a thought.........It may not be a DD but maybe a international
 natural asperated............

  Just a thought by what doesn't look like standard DD to me, Altenator is belt driven
 also if that helps.

 FFWIW
 Skip
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2008, 09:15:26 PM »

From what I can tell from that picture is that the engine is a Detroit 6V-53N.  And yes that looks like the intake pipe to the blower.  In its' current configuration, it must be extremely loud-mainly the whistling from the blower probably is very loud-typical to the straight cut 2 lobe blowers they used (because of space) on the 53 series.  On some of the 53 series (and I'm guessing maybe also on your) they used an air cleaner that looked like a large version of a car air cleaner mounted on top of the intake tube-this is why you can't find a separate air cleaner can. Finding one of these original equipped one piece air cleaners maybe a hard find.  I would suggest you measure the opening on the existing air cleaner tube (I'm guessing like 5" diameter) then go to the Donalson air cleaner web site and find a suitable remote mounted air cleaner and hook up the two with good heavy duty flex tubing made for intake duty-meaning tubing that won't collapse with the suction of the intake.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2008, 05:21:15 AM »

Bob: Maybe this will help clarify the picture. A Detroit free breathing (N ) engine has a blower which is a mechanically driven supercharger on the intake air. This is different than the turbo on a Mack which is a supercharger driven by the exhaust gases. All 2 cycle Detroits have the blower and higher horsepower models of the same series also have a turbo (T) (exhaust driven) feeding the air to the blower.  Thus, you can have a 6-53N without a turbo or a 6-53T with a turbo, but both have a blower.
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2008, 05:56:50 AM »

I remember some thing like that from years ago when I frist started driving but that has been 30 years now and I have not driven many of the 2 strokers. 

I have normaly driver cummins and cats.  I own a 85 chevy sburban with a 4BT cummins in it and three Macks and they are all mack.  This is my first Detriot, I have always disliked the sound but I guess I better get use to it.

I am learning more every day I guess that is a good think.

Is there a breather that can be mounted on the top of the engine like they were on the older (60's & 70's) where the air filter had a plate on the top and bottom of it and you could see it setting on the top of the engine?  If I can get a filter and make the plates do you tink that would work ok?

Bob
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2008, 06:33:39 AM »

Bob, mount you a air cleaner some where besides on the engine and try to use 2-90 degree hoses this will help on the engine noise.If you don't like the sound of 2 strokes wait till you crank the 6v53.A air silencer is made for that engine also  good luck
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2008, 06:44:40 AM »

Bob, the company referenced above, Donalson carries them.  I see them on Ebay quite often, in fact I am looking for the right one for mine.  When you look at your bus I am pretty sure you will find the 'chimmney' so to speak that will allow the air to come in from the intake on the right rear you sent the photo of.
So, if that is the case and it pretty much has to be...you will need to measure the 'Chimmny' on top of the engine, the 'Chimmney'the caniter the filter goes in, both for diameter, then purchase the canister that matches the diameters and two rubber thingys to match it up.
It might take a while for the right one to show up on ebay, just keep looking!
Jack
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2008, 06:58:05 AM »

Bob, buy you a air filter in the 600cfm to 700cfm range and it will have plenty of air flow for that engine, look at the ECO system also it is a great filter for 2 strokes
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 07:02:06 AM by makemineatwostroke » Logged
Bob Gil
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2008, 07:30:16 AM »

What would a air silencer be?

Never hear of any thing like that.
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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2008, 09:41:43 AM »

Bob  go to www.powerlinecomponents.com to see what a air silencer looks like it bolts to the top of the blower
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2008, 09:45:32 AM »

If you use an enclosed remote mounted air cleaner, typically these naturally will silence the noisy blower a lot.  I would highly recommend against using an open type air cleaner on top of the engine since you will still be getting all the blower noise coming through.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2008, 10:02:55 AM »

I would also caution you not to run it without an air cleaner of some kind.  Dirt is the big enemy of Detroit engines.  If it appears to have been run much without the cleaner, I would be concerned about the engine.  A rear engine bus has a lot more dirt thrown up around the engine than a truck. From the looks of the engine compartment, I would be concerned anyway.

Len
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2008, 03:34:26 PM »

I agree Len that is why I was asking the question.

I went back and played with it a little more today.  And you all were right.  There is a canaster in the right rear of the engine compartment.  I think all the hoses must have gotten burn't off in the fire.  I think that is the problem with the fuel hose it got pertty hot there in the rear.  But I have to admitt that I have not seen a mess like this in a long time.  I might have let it pass if I had realized the extent of it all at first.

I talked to the builder.  Got some insite on it.  The good part is the genset is a 14 KW the brakes and drums have just been replaced less than 1000 miles back. tires too.

He said that he always ran the genset all the time he was out and not in a park.  That sounds expensive to me. 

Here are more pictures.  If you look you can see the canaster and what is left of the rubber hose on it.

Here is a picture of the rear as some one noticed the altanator is belt driven off the front of the engine.  You can see in the second picture the belts are gone from it.

Then again I found it was only a 60mph buss.  It was a old military shuttle bus at one time with a Big V6 gass in it.  He said that it got 10 mpg with the genset running.  I hope that is right but with the new diesel I would not bet on it.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 03:39:04 PM by Bob Gil » Logged

Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
Dallas
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2008, 03:45:23 PM »

Bob,
You should find that the wiring for that engine is probably the simplest you'll ever mess with.In order to make it run, all you have to do is preset the governor and pull start the beast.

After that it will run as long as it has fuel, oil and coolant.

The fuel pump is mechanical, the governor is mechanical and none of it requires electricity to make the engine run.

It's also easy enough to wire up the starter, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge and depending on the alternator, the charging system.

Lights might be a little tougher, but still nothing a seasoned owner operator can't handle.

After that it's all gravy, just a tweak here and there and you'll be back in business.

Good luck, and if you need a simplified wiring diagram, just PM me and I can send you one. It won't be for that exact coach, but it will get the basic wiring done.

Dallas
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luvrbus
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2008, 03:47:08 PM »

That is the air cleaner If I may suggest to you remove the plate on top of the blower where the air cleaner hooks ups to blower as there is a screen under it and clean it before you start the engine. all fires look worse than they are most of the time    

good luck and enjoy your bus
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2008, 04:00:08 PM »

Too late on cleaning it out before starting it.  It has been driven about 15 milies since the fire.  It was orginally pulled with a wrecker from the orginal fire sight.

It has not been driven too much they said they have not refilled the 5 gallon can since they put it in the buss.

I am going to have to ge the fuel lines working before i chance driving it 60 miles home, along with some kind of tubing on the breather.  I tried to get the element out of the canister but the screw just turned in the bracket.  I guess I will have to go back and cut the bolt out and replace it it is real rusty and croaded.

Don't you love to inhearet some one else's mess?

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Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2008, 04:09:35 PM »

Inheriting another's mess?

Welcome to the hobby!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Bob Gil
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2008, 04:28:52 PM »

Dallas The dash is all digital I am going to have to figure that out I am use to the old gauges with the tubes on the end.  I guess that would be some long tubes on a bus.

I figure I will get it home after getting a fuel line (What do you think about the fuel tank they have in it?) and breather.  I will take the altaenator off and that it to my rebuilder and see if it is any good.  and find a regulator for it.

I ran it for long enough to build up the air today.  Noticed that the air compressor did not shut off, the pop off was blasting.  I looked and I did not see the normal govonor for the air compressor that I am use to.  I looked on the back wall I even tried to trace the hoses that came off the compressor and did not find any thing I could call a govonor.  Any ideas?  I did notice the popoff was towards the front of the bus.

The battries ar up enough to start the beat and they have a push button starter on the engine.  I was able to start it with no problams.  It starts real easy and no smoke.  They said they had not charger the batteries in almost a year I am not too sure about that but they are holding a charge pertty good. 

I did hook the ole 4BT to them and let it idle for about an hour to boost them a little.

I can't wait to get it out on the road even if it is only 60 mph.  That is going to crimp my style a lot. 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 04:33:43 PM by Bob Gil » Logged

Fort Worth, Texas where GOD is so close you don't even need a phone!

1968 GM Bus of unknown model 6V53 engine (aftermarket) converted with house hold items.

Had small engine fire and had no 12 volt system at time of purchase. 
Coach is all 110 w 14KW diesel genrator
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2008, 10:14:37 PM »

Bob- I don't know your financial situation, but personally, I wouldn't even fool with the 6V-53N.  It has only 210hp and 424lb/ft torque (about like a big block chevy).  I think you'll find it to be painfully slow up the hills and with only a 60mph top speed, a bit on the frustrating side.  Even if you turbocharge and air to air aftercool the engine, you might get about 300hp and 600lb/ft torque.  Not quite the same as if you found a donor bus with a 6V-92TA and HT740 or B500 Allison.  350hp and 1100lb/ft torque is quite different.  There are other engine/transmission you could use.  Let me know if you're thinking about swapping out.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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