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Author Topic: My tag.....  (Read 3309 times)
chazwood
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« on: February 25, 2008, 03:32:56 PM »

oil is mud.  Angry fronts are to. Angry Angry

How do you change the oil? Can you do it without pulling the bearings?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 04:03:51 PM by chazwood » Logged

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buswarrior
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 04:14:55 PM »

Get a plastic gallon jug and carve the right shape out of it to catch the oil, when you pull those caps off the end of the hubs.

I'd be inclined to pull the wheel end and put fresh seals, then you don't have to wonder about that.
While you are at it, the rest of the wheel end is easy to grease and inspect while it is all apart.

If the inner seals, age of which will not be young, leak, they contaminate the brake shoes. You may review other posts as to that controversy Wink

happy coaching!
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 04:22:40 PM »

Chaz,

I have been there and I can attest that I have talked to NO ONE that didn't tell me to R&R the lining if it got oil contaminated.  The collective opinion of maybe 20 people including bus mechs, diesel mechs, manufacturers of friction material and on and on.  I really wanted to reuse mine after I had gone to all the trouble of cleaning it up so pretty so I kept asking and hoping for a encouraging opinion.  No dice.  Poppy can!  I'll know better next time.

HTH,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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chazwood
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 04:30:56 PM »

Did we just take off the bearing cover to do what your talking about ? or did we take out the bearings? (wheel end) Huh


I can't see how I could get all the old dirty oil out...... without pulling the bearings also.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 04:35:32 PM by chazwood » Logged

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Sammy
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 04:36:02 PM »

I agree with BW.
I'd be pulling wheels and hubs, inspecting wheel bearings,races,and checking all brake components. Make all repairs that might be needed - bad wheel bearings, worn brake components,etc.
Install new inner hub seals too.
That's the only way I would do it, no shortcuts.
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 04:40:37 PM »

are you crertain someone did not change to greased hubs?
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chazwood
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 04:59:45 PM »

are you crertain someone did not change to greased hubs?

Yes. they just ain't got no lovin' for a bit.


Now I just need to go buy an impact wrench to get these "big as a toilet seat" lug nuts off. Cheesy
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 05:32:00 PM »

How did you get lugnuts that small? Must be aftermarket.

I bought a 1" air impact and an air over hydraulic 20 ton jack.

Ed.
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2008, 06:52:35 PM »

Chaz, before you go pulling lug nuts off, I strongly suggest you check out some former threads here regarding axle seals and break shoes. Gomer got me started, but Buswarrior gave me some great step by step instructions that really made the whole operation simple to understand. Both guys really knew what they were talking about. Well worth doing a little research into the archives here. Good luck, PP
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2008, 07:37:52 PM »

 NO Chaz, don't do it! Shocked  Don't call those guys! Angry  There isn't too very much humor in this world and we need more Chaz posts. Grin  Get down with the 1 incher and break out the "gas" wrench.  Wink Yee Haaaw!  Just the thought of it...I'll wet my pants again.  Future generations will thank you for being BOLD and striking out bravely and also documenting your journey in your endemic humor.  (got a thesaurus for Xmas)

You understand,  IDTH (I Doubt This Helps)

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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Sojourner
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 07:58:49 PM »

Chaz….To remove dual wheel hub…Save time and do it the easy way….jack up high enough so a thin steel plate or thick sheet metal with chassis grease on it to position under duals. After remove axle & large nuts, lower so that dual just rest on greasy plate. Then pull dual with hub off until cleared from hub spindle. Now do what buswarrior and Sammy said.

I have done many cement trucks that way that I have work for…..always overloaded to grinds it bearing out.

Caution…blocks under so it won’t come down by it self.

If oil or grease is on or soak on brake shoes…just clean them out good with kerosene or mineral spirit…..then sprinkle and rub “oil dry” over it to dry lining.

The bottom line is that all brake lining has some shoe’s oil in it to keep it from cracking.

Drum should be free of oil using a can of brake cleaner or gasket remover such as Easy Off's oven cleaner (be careful it contain ammonia….don’t get it on eyes and skin). Then rinse off with water.

Also check to see if shoe fit in drum without rocking…if so you need to re-turned the drum or better yet replace them for a few dollars more and relined the shoe to fit the drum. That alone will improve stopping power. Have cam retracted so roller is at bottom of cam before reinstall dual with hub…back on.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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chazwood
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 08:04:32 PM »

Chaz, before you go pulling lug nuts off, I strongly suggest you check out some former threads here regarding axle seals and break shoes. Gomer got me started, but Buswarrior gave me some great step by step instructions that really made the whole operation simple to understand. Both guys really knew what they were talking about. Well worth doing a little research into the archives here. Good luck, PP

Every time I try the search function I get buried in 11000 posts (were you aware that every single post containing the word toilet (t-oil-et) appears if you type in "How do I change my oil?". Who has time to read 5000 posts about toilets?)
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chazwood
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 08:09:06 PM »

I think I will just start with the tag and front axels. I'm hoping the big daddy duels are ok for now. (must use bus again in 4 days.)
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 08:22:42 PM »

Chaz,

Ok, Jerry is the first to suggest brake lining can be cleaned and there he is showing off real life experience and success at his craft and thinking that will turn any heads.  My neck is arthritic but I can still bow Jerry.

Jerry said something that REALLY caught my eye.  He suggested using "Easy Off Oven Cleaner" to degrease you drums.  I have never met anyone that had the same fetish for that product that I have.  Don't know any bus mechs, however.  It is great stuff.  The hotter the surface the more radically it cleans.  There are different types and you definitely do not want the stuff that is "kind to your hands" or has "no offensive odor".  The crap you want has LYE in it.  Ammonia is not the prime ingredient in the "good" stuff.  Did I mention LYE.  Jerry isn't right that it is ammonia that you watch out for, it is the LYE.  Nice thing about LYE is that the rinse is done in WATER and you get a good flush with a hose.  Ammonia will evaporate and the liquid will become inert.  LYE WILL NOT EVAPORATE and if you spill some and come back tomorrow and get it on you hand....it WILL BURN YOU.  I have used this stuff for years and swear by it.  High pressure water does as well...almost.  Rinse it well and it won't bite you in the "afterburner".

What a neat trick.....sheet metal and a spot of grease.  Genius!  Thanks for sharing that Jerry.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 08:57:57 PM »

JohnEd....after you said lye....that wasn't in my memory but I have to believe you because after looking up lye information....you are right! I am not a chemist but I use many and all kinds of available product there try on difference purpose and it usually (not always) works.
Where I work in the early 60's at cement mixing plant repair shop, Boss told me to use grease method on metal plate....I thought for a moment kinda messy way of getting the job done. You know what...it the best way to get the dual assembly off and put on quick & easy.

About Lye...I will remember (I hope) next time.

Thanks JohnEd for correcting it.

PS...about single wheel.....same method but very little grease on plate....just enough to make it slide s-l-o-w-ly. Single wheel are more man handling to handle. This one job that it take a Man to do the job and let the woman take care of the kids. Otherwise get a wheel lifter to do the job especially if over 60 years of age.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2008, 10:49:30 PM »

Jerry,

Thanks!  Correcting wasn't the main thrust of the com but you are correct.  I hope it was plain to see that I agreed with you in almost everything.  I'm not a chemist either.  The thing that jumped into my mind is that AMONIA is an excellent oven cleaner and I am certain that I am not the only one that knows about that.  You take a dish of ammonia and put it in the oven and set the thermo on very low.  In the morning you wipe the crud out of the oven with a damp rag cause the ammonia has converted it to a "soap-like substance".  LYE does convert grease to SOAP and that is why it rinses so nicely and it takes minutes.  I didn't break my back as a diesel mech to learn this...more or less it came from "helpfull hints from Heloise" and the such.  The things you can learn when you have absolutely NOTHING else to read and how very odd it is how usefull almost everything you learn becomes.

Thanks Jerry.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 12:44:40 PM »

Sorry for posting this in the your other posting.  This reply makes much more sence here.

These are great posts of how to handle wheel/hub removal.  I had to do the drivers side rear on ICE!  Let me tell you that you really need a good dry non-slippery place to stand - especially if you look like this!



You don't get much leverage at  5 ft tall!
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Glenn Williams
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chazwood
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 03:14:50 PM »

Ok.....I'm putting the cleaned inspected bearings back in the tag . How tight do I make that first threaded washer (with the nipple) that contacts the bearings? Hand tight? loose? what.

thanks
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 03:40:07 PM »

Chaz, have you bought/ordered your most important bus item..........the manuals?

having them will save you alot of time running between the bus and the computer
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2008, 04:47:51 PM »

ummm, Did you take it all apart and do two bearing races? There is an inner and a outer.

If just the outer, I fear for the old inner seal, if the wheel end sagged during the exercise.

Anyhoo, tighten the bearings up snug to start, to ensure everything is seated. Wheel won't turn.

Ease off the fastener until the wheel will spin "freely", without it being so loose that there would be play if you were strong enough to heave the wheel in and out.

Best advice I got from an old guy, that puts it perspective: if you are going to be wrong, loose is better than tight!!!

Assemble the rest of the locking devices, cap it and re-fill with your lube. Check it again after a short drive to be sure you didn't get fooled.

And burn clothes, that gear oil rarely washes out...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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chazwood
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2008, 05:18:36 PM »

Yes, I took off the drum first, by taking out the mangled flat head screws. (Way to go MCI Roll Eyes) I then loosened the bearing nuts and washers and nuts and washers and supported the whole assembly as the outer bearing came out.  Without letting the 500 pound housing sag. I am now on my way to the chiropractor. Dang! that thing was heavy!  Shocked I have a large parts washer in the shop and I know that thing was the heavyest chunk of steel it has ever seen.

I inspected all the surfaces around and under and over the inner seal and break areas and all was dry. Probable leak like a sieve now that I messed with it. Cheesy

I snugged up the tightening nut to where I just feel a little resistance. I think the bearings were OK but after some recent hard rain a little water might have been forced into that area turning the oil brown. Like it does when it gets mixed with water. My guess at least. I will watch it and take it's temp for a while with my howdy-doody-infer-red-heat-pointy-temp-thingy I just bought.
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2008, 05:54:45 PM »

Chaz,

I have never seen a MCI tag ax bearing affair.....but.  I think you said that you were putting the "Keyed" washer with "the bumps" next to the bearing.  In my floating axles a nut goes up against the bearing, then the keyed washer fits against that nut and the washer's stud engages the nut next to the  bearing so that the bearing tension doesn't get changed.  Then a nut goes on against the keyed washer to keep it on.  The torque on the outside nut isn't critical to bearing preload.  I don't mean to talk down to you and i apologize if I am.  If you got that sequence out of order you could be screwing up big time so I am concerned.

HTH,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2008, 06:34:13 PM »

Be afraid......... be very afraid.......I could be visiting your neighborhood at the exact moment my wheel comes off....... Grin (i guess it wouldn't be too bad seeing how this bus can only go 40 mph.)

I put it back the way it came off, so if it's wrong...... blame the po. Grin

All I got to say is Home Depot is for sissies and girlie men. They didn't have a impact wrench or socket that was even close to the size I needed. I was lookin' at all those little bitty 3/8 drive sockets and thinkin' "My, how things change". Last week I was looking at a 12in. crescent and thinking, "who would need anything that big"?......Now?...... Big?.......It ain't big enough to clean my fingernails with.
When I bought this bus I thought I'd be fine....I have every tool known to man...imagine my surprise when I realized all my bitty jacks and tiny sockets and thin ramps and Heck, even lug wrenches would be useless. I keep looking around for a tool place that thinks like McDonald's....Uh, sir , would you like to up size your tool order?

Who sells Biggie tools?
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2008, 06:36:51 PM »

If you have a NAPA near by, they usually have it or can get it. I have bought lots of big stuff from them over the years that no one else had.

Good Luck,

Paul
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2008, 08:22:23 PM »

NAPA is as mentioned a great source of QUALITY tools. Harbor Freight & Northern Tool are a good cheap source of tools. Fastenal, HCI Supply, and other like Industrial Suppliers are also excellent sources of QUALITY tools! Then of course there is EBAY, you can get brand new cheap tools right of the ship (from china, hong kong, taiwan, etc.), or with careful watching and waiting you can hit some damn good deals on stuff like SNAP ON, MAC, MATCO, CORNWELL, etc. There are also the tool trucks of the ebay brands I just mentioned, but you'll have to mortgage the house, kids, dog, bus, & wife to afford those! LOL! And I saved one of my ex-favorites for last I used to love shopping at SEARS and buying quality and reasonable priced tools, but over the yrs they have gone the typical cooperate way! (tool quality & service both SUCK!) JMHO FWIW! Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
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Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
luvrbus
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2008, 08:35:31 PM »

Chaz, WW Grainger is a good place to buy heavy duty tools of good quatily
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Sojourner
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2008, 09:17:26 PM »

Use this to search for heavy parts & tools.
In this case is better than Goggle.

http://www.yahoo.com/
Type in Heavy truck parts
Then click on Local tab
Type in your area city or zip or next bigger city.
There you have it...look for web site and click on it to see if it big truck parts place.
Or call them to see if they have what you need.

Most all heavy truck parts place the tools you needs.
All intercity buses use most of class 8 truck parts to match.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 09:38:08 PM by Sojourner » Logged
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2008, 06:47:16 AM »

Chaz, WW Grainger is a good place to buy heavy duty tools of good quatily

I'd forgoten about Grainger, but then haven't had one within 100 miles or so of me for 10 or more years either!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2008, 02:10:08 PM »

In my limited experience, there is nothing more expensive than a cheap tool. And, when you start talking about large, heavy tools, there is nothing more dangerous.
For occasional use, check the rental places.

Len
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2008, 02:16:18 PM »

Here's 2 manufacturers of great quality industrial tools - Armstrong, Williams.
Look up industrial tools in your local yellow pages.
Try these folks, I bought a few Armstrong sockets from them I needed to rebuild the Series 60 - http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm
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« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2008, 03:39:10 PM »

Sojourner's explanation reminded me - we had a rig in the shop to do exactly what his greasy sheet does.  Imagine a rolling frame with two arms extending about 2' out and spaced wide enough to slide in front and behind one set of duals.  Then inside those arms imagine a pair of pallet forks that are close enough together to lift against the front and back of the dual pair.  The whole mechanism is powered by a little 1/2 ton bottle jack.  In use you roll it so it straddles the dual set, unweight the axle assembly, pull the axle and then use the pallet jack rig to take the weight of the dual set.  Then you just roll the whole works out away from the truck.  Worked like a damn but it went to the auction sale. 


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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2008, 05:49:26 PM »

A wheel dolly - that's what Bobofthenorth has described. Works great.

http://www.otctools.com/products/detail.php?id=1126
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 05:52:04 PM by Sammy » Logged
Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2008, 09:30:27 PM »

A wheel dolly - that's what Bobofthenorth has described. Works great.

http://http://www.otctools.com/products/detail.php?id=1126


Yer so right Sammy! Now for those cheap chumps (read broke) like me! A fellow I know not far from here uses a modified pallet jack, works great!  He also has it where he can put a small home made frame structure on the same pallet jack for pulling engine & trans ! Purty clever fellow! Has taught me some other real useful tricks too over the yrs!
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
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