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Author Topic: 400 gallon grey/black tank!?!  (Read 3449 times)
TrevorH
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« on: February 27, 2008, 09:45:14 AM »

Where on earth would you put a 400 gallon grey/black tank?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1955-GMC-Bus-Motorhome_W0QQitemZ150220090719QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150220090719
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 10:17:52 AM »

 Shocked Shocked Shocked
In the photos, it looks like actually two tanks. 

If run up to full, that is a lot of weight.

Looks like the poor bus has a number of issues.

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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 10:20:54 AM »

This is an old FEMA bus (NOT FMCA).  It was built so an entire city could use the potty.... Wink
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Glenn Williams
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 10:27:19 AM »

Must be a mistake.  Those tanks are not that big.
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 10:32:30 AM »

400 Gallons!  I don't even know if there are any busnuts THAT full of it!   Shocked Shocked Shocked
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 10:42:51 AM »

Must be a mistake.  Those tanks are not that big.
You're right. I don't know what the bay height is in a 4104 but they don't appear to be more than 2' wide and 3' long.  Based on that, they look to me to be about 2' tall. Using dimensions in that range would make them somewhere around 80-100 gallons each.
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 11:20:04 AM »

And I thought my 220 gallon waste tank was big!  But I too distrust the size given, it doesn't look as big as big as my tank.
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Jerry 4107 1120
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cody
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 11:38:09 AM »

I agree, I've seen the tank that Jerry has, it's huge, there is no way the tank listed on the ebay bus is twice as big.  Jerry's tank is so big he was contacted in regards to renting his bus for the democratic convention, luckily he is busy that week lol.
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Sean
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 12:13:31 PM »

Hmm,  I calculated it based on eye-balling the dimensions (about 7' long for the two of them, and perhaps 2.5' square on the ends, maybe a bit larger) and camp up with 329 gallons.  So 400 may be a bit of a stretch, but not by all that much.

That being said, the four girls and one boy are just waaay more maintenance than I want to do on a bus.

-Sean
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 01:59:07 PM »

For those like us who like to camp in Florida State Parks where they have water and electric at each site but only a dump station for waste, I think it's a good idea.  The larger the waste tank, the better.  Weight should not be an issue, you are not going to be driving down the highway with full waste tanks.

Len
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 02:00:26 PM »

Wow...all you people would make great police detectives....just by looking at all the neat pictures all sorts of capacities and things were figured out.  Serious!  Maybe the coach was intended to be parked before all the tanks were to be...hugh....employeed to absolute full by "distressed" people you don't even know, then totally emptyed (sp?) before driving?  Seems like a lot of weight to me.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 02:25:11 PM »

Len, I know what you mean. We generally stay at state/county parks that only have centralized dump locations.  A very large waste tank would be nice.  HB, I'm not proclaiming to know the intentions of the one who did it, nor their engineering knowledge.  It doesn't take detective skills,  just a little math is all it takes to figure out capacities.

I would be afraid of potentially 6000 pounds slung underneath.  Maybe it would not be a problem.  I am certainly not an expert on the engineering of the 4104.  I am much more familiar with an RTS, but I'm not even an engineering expert on that.  But just for example, let's consider Harrison Bay State Park, one that I am familiar with.  The roads within it involve a lot of slopes, both in-line and side to side, that certainly flex things, within design limits before you even get to the sewer dump.

What I don't know is this:  Let's say that a non "expert" filled the fresh tank before leaving (maybe they would be boondocking next).  Let's say that they had a full waste tank until they get to the sewer dump on the way out of the campground.  And just for kicks let's say their fuel tank was nearly full.  That would be around 6000 pounds underneath.  Now they pull out of their campsite and start the twisting and turning around the various turns and slopes getting out of the camping area.  Was it built to handle that much weight in that area?  I don't know.  My first guess would be that it wasn't.
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TrevorH
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2008, 02:35:18 PM »

I too am not an engineer but logic would say they were definitely not designed for that.  Reason being they were designed to haul people around with their personal baggage and built accordingly.  There would be no reason to build anything that had much more capability than this as it just wasted metal, money and weight to move around.  Makes sense to me but I could be off, it happens
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2008, 03:08:07 PM »

Quote from: HighTechRedneck
That would be around 6000 pounds underneath.  Was it built to handle that much weight in that area?  I don't know.  My first guess would be that it wasn't.

Quote from: TrevorH
I too am not an engineer but logic would say they were definitely not designed for that.  Reason being they were designed to haul people around with their personal baggage and built accordingly.  There would be no reason to build anything that had much more capability than this as it just wasted metal, money and weight to move around.  Makes sense to me but I could be off, it happens

Ahah finally a question about conversions I can shed a little bit of light on! OK well let's just say that from my understanding it is generally figured that the average passanger will have 2 bags @ 50 #'s each X the normal seated capacity of your coach. So let's say a 35'er is what 35-38 X 50 = 3500-3900#'s , 40'er = 4700-4900#'s, 45'er = 5500-5900#'s ! Ok that being said ours always have those superduper trunk sized & an "small" 45-60# extra bag too! So the way I see the engineers surley allowed plenty of "human nature" extra capacities, didn't they? LOL! OK so any way ya look at it, I'd say way to much CRAP! LOL!
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2008, 03:14:30 PM »

One more question. Where did you get the figure of 6000#'s? Just curious 400 X 10#'s (probably high)= 4000#'s & 100 gal of fresh would be 800#'s FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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cody
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2008, 03:45:53 PM »

wow, all this figureing and head scratching has got me pooped.
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HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2008, 03:48:20 PM »

Ahah finally a question about conversions I can shed a little bit of light on! OK well let's just say that from my understanding it is generally figured that the average passanger will have 2 bags @ 50 #'s each X the normal seated capacity of your coach. So let's say a 35'er is what 35-38 X 50 = 3500-3900#'s , 40'er = 4700-4900#'s, 45'er = 5500-5900#'s ! Ok that being said ours always have those superduper trunk sized & an "small" 45-60# extra bag too! So the way I see the engineers surley allowed plenty of "human nature" extra capacities, didn't they? LOL! OK so any way ya look at it, I'd say way to much CRAP! LOL!
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin

BK, that is an interesting point.

As for your question of how I arrived at the numbers:

Water weighs 8.3452641 pounds per gallon at 72 degrees F.
Waste water I'm just going to estimate at the weight of water (not going to guess how much the other components weigh  Grin )
Diesel fuel weighs approx. 6 pounds per gallon.

200 gallons fresh water - 200 x 8.345 = 1,669 pounds.
400 gallons waste water - 400 x 8.345 = 3,338 pounds.
140 gallons diesel - 140 x 6 = 840 pounds.
Total potential of fuel and water carried underneath = 5,847 pounds.

Before I was just rough estimating.  I was a little off.  Tongue  But then again, the tanks would weigh more than 150 pounds.  So I was probably actually a little short.

But, applying your insights about the weight of baggage, that may be OK.  Of course that weight estimate isn't taking into account if they load the bays with a bunch of other heavy stuff like house batteries, gen set, tools, etc.
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Kristinsgrandpa
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2008, 05:48:03 PM »

    I'm not really sure about this because I've only been a busnut for about 4 years but I heard that Greyhound used to carry/transport spare engines/8V-71's in the rear bay of their 4905's. Has anyone else heard that.

 I know where there is a 4905 with a steel plate in the rear baggage bay and was told it was reinforcement for that purpose. The rest of the coach is in fine, to very fine shape.

What does an 8V-71 weigh? This came up lately but I don't remember.

My fuel tank is only about 18" or 20" wide and carries 150 gal.


Ed
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2008, 10:08:49 PM »

HTR, OK yer probably closer to right than I am! I was using a flat 8 lbs (& I was only think'n 100 gals.). for H2O & 10 for the Waste just incase some of it doesn't float! I forgot to consider the fuel (I figured it was already accounted for by the engineers since the fuel tank was OEM!) And I also didn't take into account for the tanks themselves!

Now this being said I haul a fraternity from Vanderbilt to Ft. Walton Beach every yr for their spring formal (usually Easter weekend, but this yr it will be 4-10 thru 4-12 since Easter is earlier this yr), last yr I about fell over when I saw how much BOOZE they loaded into the huge luggage bays of my "new" (too me anyway) 45 Setra! They loaded the front bay(s) with cases of Vodka, Scotch, and Jim Beam front to back, top to bottom and driver side to passanger side! Then in the next bay(s) [which are about 12" wider than the front] they loaded 2 layers of Rum and then topped it off with beer again side to side front to back and bottom to top! the third bay was loaded side to side, front to back and halfway to the top with beer! They saved the last half of that bay for their luggage which spilled over into the half bay (4th is only half and A/C Condensor & fans) that I usually reserve for my stuff, tools, and extra supplies! Now ya'll know how big my luggage bays are! We're talking 36" X 96" X 48" (#1), 48"X 96"X48" (#2),36"X96"X24" (#3) full of cases 1/2 gallons of booze and cases of beer! Now I don't have a clue how much it weighed, but most of it was still there in the morning when we arrived at the hotel! (they took some out each time we stopped) I did warn them that if the floor of bays fell through, we wasn't stop'n to pick it up! Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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Len Silva
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 06:02:52 AM »

Greyhound routinely shipped engines around the country in baggage bays.  I don't think you need to worry about a 1/4 mile drive to the dump station.

Len
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2008, 06:21:27 AM »

Last night I was chating with someone much more familiar with the 4104 than myself.  He also pointed out that Greyhound shipped up to 8 8V71's in the bays of the 4905.  However, the 4905 had heavy duty bulkheads.  On the other hand, the 4104 used plywood bulkheads sheathed with thin aluminum.  Below you can see an example of this.

So while it would definitely be ok on a 4905 or 4103.  I remain very skeptical of it on a 4104.

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junkman42
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2008, 07:18:28 AM »

BK, I live 50 miles north of ft walton bch, If you need tools or parking I have plenty of country space.  If You have a bus load of BK clad honeys You can camp and even use My pond.  Please arrive bestween 8 and 5 while the wife is at work.  John
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2008, 07:38:50 AM »

BK, I live 50 miles north of ft walton bch, If you need tools or parking I have plenty of country space.  If You have a bus load of BK clad honeys You can camp and even use My pond.  Please arrive bestween 8 and 5 while the wife is at work.  John

John,
I do appreciate the kindness of your offer however the annual trip from Vandy to Ft. WB is a FRAT (of course they do bring dates, since it is a spring formal) so it's mostly drunk couples! Last weekend was a load of High School Senior Cheer/Dance Team members! Oh how it reminds me how old I am when I haul the youngsters with tons of energy to jump, scream, run, flip, etc., etc., etc. But it is fun to watch them especially when they win! Then it's a rowdy, noisey ride home, for the first leg until about 30-60 mins. after stopping to feed them somewhere. After that they all fall asleep! LOL!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
cody
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2008, 07:53:04 AM »

BK gets all the great rides, I'm envious lol.  Last summer when we were leaving a festival in columbus ohio, we pulled up at a stop light and a teenage kid yelled out the window if we had anyone famous onboard, I told him I wasn't supposed to say but we had the Swedish Bikini Team on board, he just said WOW and we drove off lol.
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2008, 08:23:16 AM »

BK gets all the great rides, I'm envious lol.  Last summer when we were leaving a festival in columbus ohio, we had the Swedish Bikini Team on board, and WOW and we drove Huh off lol.

Yeah right! I get all the good trips huh? I never get to haul the Swedish Bikini Team! And you did what? LOL!
Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
cody
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2008, 09:05:23 AM »

Actually it wasn't the swedish bikini team, it was just libby getting dressed but I didn't want to distroy their day or leave them with that visual lol.
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RJ
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2008, 10:09:52 AM »


I'm not really sure about this because I've only been a busnut for about 4 years but I heard that Greyhound used to carry/transport spare engines/8V-71's in the rear bay of their 4905's. Has anyone else heard that.



Ed & Len -

Greyhound shipped up to four palletized 8V71 engines in the baggage bays of the Scenicruisers and 4107s in their fleet (Hound never operated any 40' Buffalos).  After loading the engines with a forklift at the maintenance shop, the coach would then get the passenger's luggage stuffed in and around the 8Vs after it arrived at the depot for it's scheduled run.

I was on a tour of Greyhound's San Francisco shop in 1970 for a college class and my guide and I stood and watched them load a Scenic with four 8Vs being transferred to Los Angeles.  Was fascinating to watch the forklift operator slide those pallets right into the baggage bin - made it look easy.

They would also routinely ship transmissions, rear axle pumpkins, and 4104 HVAC pony engines downstairs, too.  These smaller items could be shipped in the 4104s and 4106s, but not the engines, as the bays were to short, height-wise, on these models.

Note that these items were all rebuilt, thus were clean.  As needed, the various holes (air intake, exhaust manifolds, etc.) were capped, and the entire item wrapped in that clear plastic Saran Wrap-like stuff to protect it and the customer's luggage.

Of course, this was back in the days when Greyhound had a maintenance program that was the envy of the transportation industry.  Nowadays, driver's have to carry duct tape in their briefcases to hold the plastic panels of the G-series MCIs together.  Sad, but true. . .

A 400 gallon water tank is nothing, comparatively, to what these old workhorses have been subjected to during their revenue-service days.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2008, 03:01:09 PM »

Russ, you're lucky out there on the west coast, the east coast drivers who present these lovely pieces of MCI "G" model crap to the New York City pool driver's in Buffalo to bring it through to T.O. have given up on the duct tape....

Very friendly buses, the panels all wave in the wind...

If something is wrong with one of these pool coaches once it gets here, it takes two weeks for the approvals to either tow it back stateside or to put it up on the hoist....

Needless to say, the drivers are expected to be all over those buses in Buffalo and turn quite a few of them down.

You wouldn't believe the condition of the through coaches from this end...when they finally return...

The dog bus company has a lot of big challenges, perhaps never to be overcome.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2008, 03:22:42 PM »

prior to my re-engineering I had a 7.5KW Kohler Genset a 75 gallon Black tank a 120 gallon grey tank and a 200 gallon fresh tank in the rear bay of my 4104......also in there was structure for the enclosure for the genset, the Water heater as well as all other Systems type things.
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« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2008, 03:24:47 PM »

Russ beat me to the GH didn't operate 4903's or 5's, true and not true, there were a couple that made it into the fleet througha  Canadian Subsidiary for a short period before being sold off.

now for the 4905 with the steel plate.......likely the poor mans fix to cover the flooor after the Boggie "axle" was removed.....gotta cover the holes somehow
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