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Author Topic: Help me with my engine - id this stuff  (Read 2495 times)
Paladin
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« on: February 27, 2008, 03:28:34 PM »

It's finally warming up enough to think of changing oil etc. I am really just learning this stuff about DD's and the systems so bear with me.

First, I have my oil but I'm not sure where my filter is or even how many and what type to buy. I know, dumb question. I see what appears to be a filter on the right side of the engine and down low on the mount. Is that it? What is in the rear, sort of high ( can be seen in last photo at bottom)? Maybe I can post some pics if I don't load this up too much with them.
Any tips on what else to look at and duties to to perform while changing oil? Grease zerks etc?





Also, this valve is leaking some air. Before I go tearing into it can someone tell me what is is?




What is this? Part of the OTR air? It's just inside the right hand door where the stuff used to be:




Last thing, when I bought the bus the p.o was saying something about a part that was supposed to go in the picture below. He stuffed a bit of napkin in it and I drove home and forgot all about it.
What is supposed to go there and where do I get it?
Location is top of blower next to air intake.





Thanks!


   
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 03:43:54 PM »

Picture one looks more like two fuel filters-but usually the fuel filters are mounted higher up on the engine.
Picture two looks like an air accululator possibly for the engine shut off
Picture three is a quick release to hook up an air hose to tap the air brake system to for instance being able to air up the tires.  Then the schraeder valve on the top is to air up the air brake system without the engine running.
Picture four-don't know-maybe some kind of breather?  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 03:49:40 PM »

Doh! Didn't think of the fuel filter!
I'd imagine the lower one would be fuel and the one with the sight glass seen in the rear of picture 4 might be oil??

Thanks!
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'75 MC-8   'Event Horizon'
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 03:59:26 PM »

Picture 4 looks to me like an Ether cup.  We had silver-colored (probably Aluminum) cups, hole in bottom and a sharp pointed tube sticking up into the cup.  The cup also had a spring-loaded cap.  Small gel capsules full of ether were inserted, the tube pierced the capsule, and just the right amount of ether was sucked into the engine for starts on cold New England days.

Arthur
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 04:02:03 PM »

#1. Fuel filters, Oil is likely on the left looking at it that way.

#3. That's where you can air up with shop air.

#4. Power steering , missing is the dip stick. Wink
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 05:00:31 PM »

Hello:      I would strongly advise you to get a manual and read it as you tackle these systems..  The next best thing is to get someone with you who knows what he is doing..   
      If you mess up a system enough to cause a serious engine problem  the bucks will flow   and you will not be a happy camper..
    For me the pictures need to have better angles or more views to ascertain exactly where the pipe or filter goes and what system it is connected to.   For example looking into the engine compartment from the rear with the rear doors open.
     1: The fuel system is on the right.  fuel filters usually 2  primary and secondary are generally located on the right side under the exhaust manifold close to the rear support (the support is in the pix you are showing) however without more pix and info I would only guess.
2: As another gentlemen suggested the oil filter is on the left about midway on the engine (if you look in the drivers side engine compartment door the filter is in view under the exhaust manifold near the pan area.
3;  looking at the pix with the rag  the filter receiver  at the back of the engine on the right is the power steering reservoir.But it is unclear where the pipe with the rag in it goes.. If it goes to the air intake then it could be an ether resovoir depending on the size of the pipe(unclear).
      SO you see it is not easy to know exactly what you have there.   I would hesitate to have you put the wrong oil in a system or follow the wrong procedure and cause damage.. 
     For example the oil filter is filled with oil right to the top before you install it. There is a reason to do this. the engine can possibly be ruined if the filter is installed  empty.     (my Saturn oil filter is horizontal so you cannot fill it prior to installation and with such a small filter the engine picks up and works fine).
      Fuel filters need to be filled and the system purged of air before the engine will start .  If you run out of fuel and allow air in the system  it gets interesting .
       SO procedures are important
      I hate to be a spoilsport but please be careful: if you have no idea what you are doing; get help..People giving information from a few views may be right but can you afford to make a costly mistake.. My advice again is to get a manual  and read it front to back  and get help the first time you change oil or fuel filters.
       I was fortunate that in my neighborhood a retired hound mechanic filled me in on some of the maintenance procedures  to get my bus ready to roll.
           Sorry   to be a damper.. your enthusiasm is great.        happy bussin    mike   
   
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 05:24:26 PM »

Mike -
ednj is absolutely correct.  Picture number 2 is an air pressure regulator to run the piston that tensions the belt, and I think it may lead to something else, but there is no doubt about what it is.

Oil fill is likely on top of your drivers side valve cover, like on older cars.  Oil should be 40 wt. 

You need a dipstick for that power steering reservoir - the cannister toward the front of the bus with a sight glass.  Some power steering used 40wt oil, some used automatic tranny fluid - determine what is in your system before you add any.

I'd remove the quick release fitting on your air line in picture 3, and put on the male end so that you can attach your shop air which usually has the female end on the hose.  This airline will air up your whole bus.

Definitely get a manual.  Mike is correct, mistakes can ruin your day and bus!  Good luck, ask questions and HAVE FUN!!! Grin
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Glenn Williams
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 05:28:34 PM »

Pix two (from the bottom) looks like shutterstat controls....does (did) your coach have shutterstats?  Turning the little T screw off will shut off the 'stats.  If they work, leave'em on.  If they leak air...turn them off.  If they're missing the cylinders...for sure leave them off.  
The description of other parts look good to me.  
BTW, the rear filter is the primary, frontmost is secondary.  
Hate to say, but looks like someone stole your OTR AC.... Shocked
This advice is free...probably exactly what it's worth!   Wink
Good luck, JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 05:37:25 PM »

      SO you see it is not easy to know exactly what you have there.   I would hesitate to have you put the wrong oil in a system or follow the wrong procedure and cause damage.. 
     For example the oil filter is filled with oil right to the top before you install it. There is a reason to do this. the engine can possibly be ruined if the filter is installed  empty.     (my Saturn oil filter is horizontal so you cannot fill it prior to installation and with such a small filter the engine picks up and works fine).
      Fuel filters need to be filled and the system purged of air before the engine will start .  If you run out of fuel and allow air in the system  it gets interesting .
       
      .......if you have no idea what you are doing; get help..
                 Sorry   to be a damper.. your enthusiasm is great.        happy bussin    mike   
   


This is really great info, what are the correct procedures?
I've changed oil a few times in my life, a couple hundred maybe so I wouldn't say that I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm well aware of priming the filter but I've never done this on the bus so what are the tips for changing it? I'm sure a few have done it right?
How do you purge the air from fuel?

I have manuals but I find that asking people who know and have been in there also supplements and clarifies things nicely...usually.
   
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 06:11:52 PM »

I had planned on doing my own oil changes.  After talking with my friend (a truck driver for 39 years) and how he described digging a hole big enough to put a 5 gallon pail in to catch the oil that he could,  I decided to take it to a truck stop.  They changed the oil and filter and fuel filters and let me get into the pit so I could inspect the bus.  I think this is the best way to go at least for the first oil change.  It is very educational.  HTH!
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Glenn Williams
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 06:29:05 PM »

The power steering filler on my MC9 is just a screw (thermos) plug.  No dipstick.  The sight glass is the level indicator.  
Not sure about exactly what MCI you have, but my oil filler is remoted to the rear of the bus just like the PS filler.  However, it is a lot larger, and obviously goes into the valve cover.
As has been said, you may wish to verify what sort of oil is in the PS res.  Both motor oil and Dexron is used in the power steering.  
Generally, red is Dexron.  Brown is motor oil.  
That gizmo on the tag fender well was also a drain.  It should be plumbed so that it can be drained.  The disconnect can be swapped for a male fitting and a small ball valve installed.  
The ability to air up the coach from there with shop air is handy.  
Regarding the fuel filters...consider installing a primer pump in the engine room.  
You'll find it useful the first time you park your coach with the street-side low and less than 1/4 tank of fuel...remember that approx 25 gallons of fuel is unuseable...you risk airing up the fuel system.  Often, without a primer, the batteries will be dead before it restarts.  If you slug air into the mechanical pump, it won't prime itself.  A small electric pump is a good item.
FWIW, when you cannot determine what something does...like the reg mounted on sidewall, look at it and chase the lines down.  It may become obvious what its purpose is.  
If the 1/4" air line goes to the blower belt cylinder valve, that's what it controls.  Don't change any pressures or regulators unless you reference the manual for the proper pressure settings.  The AC and blower belt tensioner cylinders look similar, but operate at different pressures.
JR

BTW, Tractor Supply sells a cheap, low profile watering pan that works great as a oil catch pan under a bus.  It'll go under a a bus without being aired up.  And they'll hold the requisite 27 quarts of oil.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 06:31:09 PM by NJT5047 » Logged

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 07:15:23 PM »

The power steering filler on my MC9 is just a screw (thermos) plug.  No dipstick.  The sight glass is the level indicator.  
 
 
That gizmo on the tag fender well was also a drain.  It should be plumbed so that it can be drained.  The disconnect can be swapped for a male fitting and a small ball valve installed.  
The ability to air up the coach from there with shop air is handy.  


>
Yes, you are right, there I go typing faster then I think (what a dip stick)lol.
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MCI-9
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 05:03:08 AM »

    You have received some good answers, but as was mentioned double check averything.
Some of these buses have had chamges made over the years.
    Follow the lines from the regulator in photo 2 and see where thry go. I think that controls radiator shutters and possibly blower belt temsioner.
    Photo 3.  We installed a street EL in the top of the TEE in the photo after removing the schrader valve. We installed a female quick connect fitting like the one in your photo above the TEE. We installed a ball valve in where you presently have the QC fitting to drain the system. We can connect an air hose to the QC to air up tires, floats, ect. To fill the bus from our shop air, we installed 2 male QC fittings on a ball valve. This allows us to connect the bus QC female fitting to the female QC fitting on the shop airhose.  Jack
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2008, 05:13:43 AM »

Damaged 55 gallon barrels are usually free at a bulk oil/fuel dealer. If you cut it off just below the bottom ring it makes an ideal oil catch pan as well as a good parts wash pan. Slide it under the engine on a large piece of cardboard so that you can pull on the cardboard and eliminate the splashing that occurs when you drag the container on gravel or concrete.

The device in picture #2 is indeed a regulator and filter for an air cylinder which could be the belt tensioner or shutter cylinders or damper cylinders. It is also a lubricator and the left hand tank should have oil in it.
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2008, 06:10:20 AM »

 Walmart has those large, low profile plastic storage containers with wheels my wife likes to buy for storing sweaters, toys and everything else under the sun, under the bed. They make perfect oil pans.... roll them under, roll them out. (just stuff the sweaters back under the bed ....she never wears them and won't look till next year Cool).

oh, and one more thing .....if you replace that red lens on the service light with a clear one you might be able to see a little better. Grin
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 06:16:14 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2008, 08:25:47 AM »

Hold, on I gotta go get some more shotgun shells.... Wink

Picture #1 - the fuel filters are down there, two of them, as noted by earlier posters.

The oil filter is on the other side, and may not be a spin-on, might be the replaceable cartridge type. If it has a bolt centred in the bottom, it is the cartridge type. Cheaper to buy, messier to deal with...

Picture #2 - this is the infamous shutter and damper control. If it controls anything else, somebody has been fooling around with your coach. Bottom valve is the release and drain, side one is the supply. Close the supply, open the release.

Yes, change that red lense to a clear one, if it works with the light switch on the rear control panel.

Picture #3 - this air connection opportunity serves two purposes. First is that it allows you to drain the first place in your air system that water collects, often ignored or , as in your case, defeated by someone's modification attempts, Those who don't use it, don't worry, the moisture will show up downstream...
Second, it is a great place to fill the bus air system by way of a remote compressor.

Note, this air connection does not always have air pressure present, unless your system has been modified. There should be one way valving at the dryer or at the wet tank to protect the air system in the event of a compressor or compressor line failure emptying the system backwards.
Notably, if the air dryer has purged, this line will be at atmosphere. Jack's advise as to teeing this off, drain on bottom and a choice of male and female connections is EXCELLENT. (Thanx Jack! Why have I been fooling with that double ended cheater for so long...?)

Picture #4 - follow the pipe on the bottom, this drains into the power steering reservoir, seen in the back with the sight glass. As posted, figure out what's already in there.

The ether cup is mounted higher, in the top of that metal elbow of the air intake. Might be there, too much shadow to tell for sure.

Pays yer money, takes yer chances!

happy coaching!
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2008, 08:32:26 AM »

Walmart has those large, low profile plastic storage containers with wheels my wife likes to buy for storing sweaters, toys and everything else under the sun, under the bed. They make perfect oil pans.... roll them under, roll them out. (just stuff the sweaters back under the bed ....she never wears them and won't look till next year Cool).

oh, and one more thing .....if you replace that red lens on the service light with a clear one you might be able to see a little better. Grin

Whoa...... opps it didn't say what I first thought it did! At first I thought you were saying too stuff the sweaters back in it after using it! I was gonna say and next fall we will be go'n to his funneral & his wife's sentencing hearing both! LOL! Glad to reread that I was wrong, your too much fun to loose this early! LOL!
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2008, 10:16:41 AM »

Walmart has those large, low profile plastic storage containers with wheels my wife likes to buy for storing sweaters, toys and everything else under the sun, under the bed. They make perfect oil pans.... roll them under, roll them out. (just stuff the sweaters back under the bed ....she never wears them and won't look till next year Cool).

oh, and one more thing .....if you replace that red lens on the service light with a clear one you might be able to see a little better. Grin

Whoa...... opps it didn't say what I first thought it did! At first I thought you were saying too stuff the sweaters back in it after using it! I was gonna say and next fall we will be go'n to his funneral & his wife's sentencing hearing both! LOL! Glad to reread that I was wrong, your too much fun to loose this early! LOL!
Grin  BK  Grin

 Grin
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skipn
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2008, 07:45:46 AM »

Just a FWIW.

  For the tow truck to air up the bus it will require a male hose connector.
 The problem is which one will be required. When the tow truck went to
 air up my bus I had the wrong one for his set-up. The the picture is
 what I set-up and I have different types of male ends.


 Hope this helps

 Skip
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Sojourner
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2008, 08:06:50 AM »

Good picture & suggestion.

However do you have a check valve in between male end to tee? If not...you will have air blowing out of male end while using the female hook up.

Thanks for sharing your suggestion.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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skipn
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2008, 08:34:21 AM »


Jerry,

    Thanks I forgot to point that out. There is a small valve on
 the right side of the brass fitting  behind the gauge.
 Hard to see.


 Skip
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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2008, 08:54:59 AM »

I use the same sort of fittings as Skip, but have a 3/8" ball valve in the line.   That allows draining the lines, and rapidly deflating the air system for service.   
There are 3 common variations of 1/4" male quick disconnect fittings.   I figured if push comes to shove, the tow truck air hose could be threaded into the fitting. 
Also carry enough air hose to reach the steer tires when the hose is attached to the fitting.  The hose has female fittings on both ends.

JR


   
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2008, 03:12:22 PM »

Up to and including MC-7, the fitting for tow truck air line was in the tool compartment under the driver's seat and this line filled the brake system tanks after the check valves. Do later models not have this?

Both male and female air coupling interchanges are readily available - even at Harbor Freight.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 03:14:45 PM by Stan » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2008, 09:12:33 PM »

Stan,
My MCI 7 has the schrader valve inlet in the tool bay.  It also has the rear line that are in the pictures in this post.  Mine had a twist valve installed with the male quick connect as the input or output.  That line is labeled originally as a drain.  It also goes to my air dryer.
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Glenn Williams
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2008, 07:31:46 AM »


At least up to '87 MC9s have a tow schrader valve in the tool compartment.  The line has a check valve in it so it cannot be (prevent by design?) used as an air supply.   
I thought it would be cool to have an air source for the front tires..or whatever.  Removed the schrader valve and installed an air hose female quick disconnect...didn't work.  You could air up the bus, but a check valve prevents losing air thru the line.   I decided to leave it alone and reinstalled the schrader valve. 

JR
   
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2008, 08:42:32 AM »


   Hi;
      Looks like you might have a MC8.  Photo #1 -  show's your primary
      and secondary fuel filters.  Photo #2 - is the control valve for your
      shutters that are/were in front of the radiators. Mine also leaked
      and I disconnected it. Photo #3 - Is a disconnect for a shop air hose
      used to air up tires if necessary. Photo #4 is the fill port for your
      power steering reservoir. Also in the photo is the reservoir itself.
      It is the round thing with a sight window in it.  My MC7 has the
      same lay out. Hope this helps.   
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2008, 01:38:16 PM »

Great replies and LOT'S of help!
Thanks guys!


P.S

Yep, MC-8
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'75 MC-8   'Event Horizon'
8V71  HT740
Salt Lake City, Utah

"Have bus will travel read the card of the man, a Knight without armor in a savage land...."
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