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Poll
Question: Should Ace Rossi be allowed back on this Board  (Voting closed: March 16, 2008, 06:35:04 AM)
Yes, immediately - 44 (62%)
In another 30 days - 0 (0%)
Only with a written promise to behave - 6 (8.5%)
Solely at the discretion of the Moderators - 17 (23.9%)
Absolutely NO - 4 (5.6%)
Total Voters: 67

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Author Topic: People barred from this Board  (Read 3530 times)
NCbob
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« on: March 06, 2008, 05:35:04 AM »

When we attended Bussin' 2008 at Arcadia this year one of our neighbors and Blue Grass enthusiasts was Ace Rossi and Susan. It tugged at my heart to know that Ace is known to so many people and is so active in our hobby but is not welcome on this Board.  I know the story as to why he was barred but I truthfully believe that enough time has passed and in speaking to him yesterday he was told he could re-join but his application always seems to get bypassed.

I feel Ace has been exiled long enough to realize that this Board is a world of mellow discussion and he should be given an opportunity to join us again.

That's the question. Should Ace be allowed to join our ranks once again?

Bob
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 05:48:45 AM »

I guess it depends on what he did?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 06:13:04 AM by chazwood » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 05:52:01 AM »

I never had a problem with ACE I think just because he had  trouble with Richard wasn't a good reason to ban him from the board .I have seen a lot worse here             just my thoughts on the subject
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 06:10:31 AM »

Hi Bob,

I think that if he would like to have his ban lifted, then he would just have to ask me.

Of course, his posts would have to be moderated for a period of time. His posts just has to be civilized!

I think that everybody deserves a second chance!

Nick-
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 06:21:51 AM »

I will say that my kids like to read posts on this board and I hope the airways stay clean enough to continue to allow that. One thing I like about this board is the lack of juvenile expletives. You guys have class. 
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 06:26:56 AM »

Hey Bob,

Can you modify your poll to include a "Don't Care" option?

Ace never bothered me as I know I am always right and chose to ignore folks who don't agree with me. They will recognize their folly soon enough!   Grin Grin Grin Grin

TOM
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 06:30:38 AM »

Chaz, you can thank the moderators for keeping the board clean my grandkids love to read the board also and not one time have I ask them to clean up something have they refused
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 06:39:51 AM »

    I don't think Ace's problem was his language, but the attitude that came across from some of his post.  Paula & I are good friends with Ace & Susan and he comes across much different in person than he does when writing.  In fact, Ace was the impetus that started the Bussin' rallies that Paula and I do every year.  Jack
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 06:48:47 AM »

Well first off it really isn't my place to decide, as I had nothing at all to do with his ban & I'm not a moderator. But on the other hand ACE has much knowledge, and many great ideas to share with others on this board. And yes he has had some issues with his temper/attitude. But we all seem to have bad days (I've even had 1 once! LOL!), and bad days seem to come with bad judgement in what or how to express ourselves occasionally (as I mentioned, I was guilty myself, once! LOL!) There have been others who have stepped over the line before, and there will be again. The thing is to learn from it and adjust your self control, to deal with it in a responsible manner. I've never met ACE in person, but have interacted here on this and the "other board", and even spoke with him on the phone, and I truly believe he is just like most of the rest of here and has a genuine love of buses, tons of great knowledge, and many great ideas to share. But I also believe he needs to show respect for the rest of the members here on the board even on his bad days! I also totally agree that if he wants to come back, he should email or CALL the top dog and politely discuss what why & how it happened that he was banned, and what will be done in the FUTURE to avoid it from happening again!
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin

PS Sorry Nick for calling you a dog! LOL!
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2008, 07:09:39 AM »

I do not know what happen to get him barred from the board but on the BNO board I have seen him make comments about Fast Fred's bus I thought were inappropriate but all of us have our short coming and sometimes the mind and fingers are not always in sync
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2008, 07:12:14 AM »

When I asked for help looking at the Setra I bought Ace was the only person to respond. I spoke to him on the phone several times and he was nothing but a gentleman. I tried to offer him money to compensate him for his time, but he refused.(I think it was a 45min drive each way plus the time he spent looking it over and emailing me pics) This was shortly after his ban, I asked him about it because I had no problems at all dealing with him. He didn't badmouth anyone here.

I know there are times when we've all said things we regret, we all need forgiveness for past and future offences.
 
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2008, 07:22:24 AM »

I see no problem with letting Ace back on the board.  His actions will determine how long he stays...........

I believe anyone should be given a second chance.

If however, anyone is banned twice, I think there would have to be a very compelling reason to ever let them back on the board again.

Frank
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2008, 07:30:05 AM »

I will say that my kids like to read posts on this board and I hope the airways stay clean enough to continue to allow that. One thing I like about this board is the lack of juvenile expletives. You guys have class. 

Chaz, you can thank the moderators for keeping the board clean my grandkids love to read the board also and not one time have I ask them to clean up something have they refused











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Dam.

I didn’t know he was banded, I thought he just stopped posting, like Luke or Fast Fred and some of the other legends.
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2008, 07:39:34 AM »

 In being on the board and 2 others that Ace is on or was on there are a few things I have noticed.

 As a friend I would trust him to watch my back. If he didn't like me he would most certainly be vocal to me.
 There are a few busnuts Ace does not get along with and I get the sense that the feelings are mutual.
 I personally would never want to try and censor the strong personality that Ace seems to portray.

 In the very few times I have disagreed with Ace I treated him with respect and he returned inkind.

  Just remember not to debate him on what is the proper pick to use with a mandolin and things will be fine Smiley

  Just My 2 cents

 Skip
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2008, 07:57:38 AM »

Everybody deserves a second chance, well most everybody, I would not give Hitler, Sadam and a few  select others one.
 I've met Ace and Susan and in person they are great people. It's realy simple, If you dont like what a person posts or the way they post it, dont read thier posts and for goodness sake's don't argue with them!!!!!!!                                                                       Jim Robinson
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2008, 08:28:02 AM »

Was there a poll such as this to get him barred in the first place?  I too, didn't realize he had been barred.  I thought he just picked up his football and went home because he didn't want to play with us anymore.

The simplest way to deal with to deal with posts or posters that are inappropriate is to ignore them. In a matter of hours the post will be buried on page three.

I truly value everyone here, the very knowledgeable willing to help, the newbies trying to learn, the well intentioned but ignorant who confuse the issues, even the Republicans, all an asset to this community.

I found some of the  Ace/Richard bickering to be quite annoying but just shrugged it off and scrolled on down.  We all make a**holes out of ourselves at one time or another.  It's just life and won't buy one gallon of diesel.

Len
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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2008, 08:41:49 AM »

Some people just love to bicker on line as a way of getting juices flowing.  Maybe Ace's comments were taken a little too seriously.  As long as the language is kept clean and we don't have name calling, I too like to get into "discussions" about various topics. I didn't realize that we had bulletin board police that had the power to ban people from using this board.  I personally just like to read and learn-then to give back what I've learned-but isn't that the purpose of this board?  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2008, 08:52:25 AM »

I for one feel that Ace just comes across on the board worse than he does in person. I have met him and feel he is a stand up guy, in fact that is part of his problem, he feels strongly about things, and calls a spade a spade, he does not mince words. To me that is a positive trait, but to others that can come over as rude, or sarcastic, or plain nasty sometimes in the written word.

Personally, I feel that there were some people that fed off of that and it seemed like they were trying to get to him a little, well if that was the case, it worked.

Let him back, (if he would do so)
jim

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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2008, 09:10:40 AM »

As long as the language is kept clean and we don't have name calling, I too like to get into "discussions" about various topics. I didn't realize that we had bulletin board police that had the power to ban people from using this board. 

The two things I like most about this forum is the civility and the cohesiveness of the community.  To me, abusive language and personal attacks/name calling are where the line has to be drawn to maintain these traits.  The moderators must be able to act when behavior calls for it.

All that said, I believe that people learn from their experiences and everyone derserves second chances.  I agree with Nick that he needs to discuss it with Nick and agree to make an effort to log off when feeling undiplomaticWink

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« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2008, 09:11:12 AM »

I don't like censorship, but sometimes it can be beneficial -IF- it is limited in scope.

Instead of baning people from the board, I'd rather see the ugly words blanked out & the innocent protected. HOWEVER, the offending poster's identity & the essence of what was said should be left so all can know the personality behind the posting. That way we can know 'that is their way' & give it the credibility consideration it deserves.

Criticism can be constructive or destructive. Leaving the posts essentially intact allows readers to see thru thin veils of 'I was only trying to help' some try to hide behind while being hatefull.

It takes all types to make the world go around.

Some people are more eloquent in their writings, others, not so much . . . . .

I think it is easier to see a person's true self thru their actions - not words.
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2008, 09:12:09 AM »

Ok I am in wonderment

 from the orginal post
 "I truthfully believe that enough time has passed and in speaking to him yesterday he was told he could re-join but his application always seems to get bypassed."

  Yet this is what I found (view attached image)

   Could someone please explain?

 Thank
 Skip
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2008, 09:39:22 AM »

I'm not going to get into any name specifice, but I'll mention why I'm active here .... and not elsewhere.  It has to do with a general tone of members' posts.

When I was looking for a bus, I investigated multiple bulletin boards.  On this one, I found civility.  Elsewhere, I found a lot of acid.  Even though it may have only been a few folks, that was enough for me to avoid the "elsewhere". 

It has been suggested that we can ignore the ascerbic posts of others.  I don't quite/entirely agree.  I may have three or four posts "elsewhere", here I have more.  Why?  seeing others get slammed, I don't want to put myself in that position.  I don't want to become the porkupine, with the quills being arrows in my back.  Yes, I have almost 4 decades in the bus business, but I'm quite a newcomer to the conversion field.

When I was visiting with another local member several months ago, he commented that a lot of knowledgeable folks used to post on the boards, but decided it wasn't worth it because of some of the responses.

I seem to live on American Airlines.  For quite a while, on returning home to DFW and looking out the passenger window, I saw a large sign between Terminals A and C.  Posted, obviously, for employees.  It said "Coordination, Cooperation, Mutual Respect, Trust."

Here's an example.  Recently, a newer member was asking for help here, but had forgotten to post details of his vehicle/engine.  The only statement made in one of the posts hinted very politely that the information might be helpful. 

My 1/50 of a dollar.

Arthur 
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2008, 10:56:59 AM »

Ok I am in wonderment

 from the orginal post
 "I truthfully believe that enough time has passed and in speaking to him yesterday he was told he could re-join but his application always seems to get bypassed."

  Yet this is what I found (view attached image)

   Could someone please explain?

 Thank
 Skip

Hi Skip,

We never deleted ACE's account. There is only a ban which prevents him from posting. He can still log on and view
all messages and the BBS system tracks all his activity.

Nick-
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2008, 11:03:07 AM »

I'm not going to get into any name specifice, but I'll mention why I'm active here .... and not elsewhere.  It has to do with a general tone of members' posts.

When I was looking for a bus, I investigated multiple bulletin boards.  On this one, I found civility.  Elsewhere, I found a lot of acid.  Even though it may have only been a few folks, that was enough for me to avoid the "elsewhere". 

It has been suggested that we can ignore the ascerbic posts of others.  I don't quite/entirely agree.  I may have three or four posts "elsewhere", here I have more.  Why?  seeing others get slammed, I don't want to put myself in that position.  I don't want to become the porkupine, with the quills being arrows in my back.  Yes, I have almost 4 decades in the bus business, but I'm quite a newcomer to the conversion field.

When I was visiting with another local member several months ago, he commented that a lot of knowledgeable folks used to post on the boards, but decided it wasn't worth it because of some of the responses.

I seem to live on American Airlines.  For quite a while, on returning home to DFW and looking out the passenger window, I saw a large sign between Terminals A and C.  Posted, obviously, for employees.  It said "Coordination, Cooperation, Mutual Respect, Trust."

Here's an example.  Recently, a newer member was asking for help here, but had forgotten to post details of his vehicle/engine.  The only statement made in one of the posts hinted very politely that the information might be helpful. 

My 1/50 of a dollar.

Arthur 

Hi Art,

You are very correct!
We believe the #1 reason this board is so successful is because we don't allow Flaming wars to to flare up!
This is a comfortable place for most to visit. Yes, we Police it... all 5 of us Moderators....and sometimes I wish we had
more to help with the Spammers.
Bottom Line, It's not going to happen here! Start bad mouthing another member or vendor and we will delete!
Do it enough times and a ban will be issued.
I just hate to sound Stern but, that is what works here..
Nick-
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 11:06:39 AM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2008, 11:07:26 AM »

I don't think it was language that got Ace banned or calling a spade a spade, He was slandorous to a few of us and I am one of his victims on more than one occasion. There's one thing to call a spade a spade but to insinuate someone is/was a drug addict or has $hity credit whether they know this for a fact or not is wrong. I think he is being given a 3rd chance in all actuality but that is fine with me. If he is truly going to be a help to this board by all means bring him back if he falls back into the same old routine send him packing.
    I know there are people here that don't like me and some that after meeting me have changed their opinion.  I try to put a comedic twist to some things I say but hardly ever am I being facesious or how ever you spell it. Let the powers that be decide.
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2008, 11:25:25 AM »

I enjoy the real friendliness on this board.  I agree with Runcutter and Sean about not really being able to "ignore" argumentative posts.  They ruin quality threads and louse up good information.  I also really hate excluding anyone with excellent knowledge, considering how little I have!  How about this: let Ace back with the pledge that he edit his posts as you would any letter -asking your self "how does this sound to anyone but me?"

Also a great "rule" for us all to live by - we all love buses, ALL buses!  I have seen several threads get lost in bickering about who's brand was best.  I think it is OK to tease a little, (like about Eagles rusting  Wink ) but I think it is wrong to seriously denigrate any specific make or model.

Just my opinion - like a belly button, we all have one!
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2008, 11:29:04 AM »

Living in a remote  corner of the world, I need all the help with my bus that I can get.  I read this board daily & post questions now & again.

The moderators do a brilliant job of allowing self expression & humour, without  allowing the personal attacks I have seen in other forums.

From my perspective, I trust them to decide if someone should be allowed back or not.

Peter
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2008, 11:31:01 AM »

     Stick, stones, bones guys.  This is only words, guys (and cyber ones at that).  I am all for maintaining a certain decorum on the board. Removing someone's access to posting may be necessary if that person refuses to be reasonable.  Removing the offending posts may be a good first step since most would get the message that their message is not getting across.  But, not only am I for second chances, I am for second second chances.  Come on, you guys are burly bus mechanics.  You wipe your noses with your sleeve and have been known to spit, curse, and openly admire women.  Even if you had feelings, you shouldn't admit that they could be hurt.

     He doesn't drive a GMC, does he?
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2008, 12:01:42 PM »

Nick you know I support you 100% but some of these vendors get flamed good on this board and nothing happens.I have friends that don't use the board because they have a Walker Coach and believe Walker did right by them.Every time AZ Transmission is mention Richard goes off about him and I have had great luck with him and then you have the Sliver Eagle Co when that name comes up all hell breaks loose.But I think you do a great job so keep it up
[/quote]

Hi Art,

You are very correct!
We believe the #1 reason this board is so successful is because we don't allow Flaming wars to to flare up!
This is a comfortable place for most to visit. Yes, we Police it... all 5 of us Moderators....and sometimes I wish we had
more to help with the Spammers.
Bottom Line, It's not going to happen here! Start bad mouthing another member or vendor and we will delete!
Do it enough times and a ban will be issued.
I just hate to sound Stern but, that is what works here..
Nick-
[/quote]
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2008, 12:05:25 PM »

I didn't vote because I don't think the decision is any of my business.  This board strikes a very good balance between the heavy handed net nanny censorship that some boards exhibit and the knock-em-down, drag-em-out flavour of usenet.  I like it and obviously a lot of other people do too.  It is this way thanks to the moderators.  Good job guys - keep it up.

The discussion should be between Ace & the moderators.  It is 100% their call. If I were in Ace's shoes & I really wanted back on I think I'd pick up the phone.


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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 12:15:20 PM »

I rather enjoy the depravity of a good flame war, so I'll step right in if I think I have a point to add.
I know the difference between sticks & stones. I also have thick skin - or is it a thick skull?
I have met many knowledgeable bus folk who won't post for fear of being attacked - they just don't want to deal with the drama.

Openly debating facts & opinions bus related is one thing.

Personal, vicious attacks are something entirely different.

Deleting the vicious posts leaves those that didn't read them in the dark & gives the offending poster a free pass to continue.

Based on the whole of the posts I've read, the moderators did this board a favor & exercised good judgement in using their power to ban certain posters. I'll defer to their judgement concerning lifting of any ban they have imposed.

My grandmother once said "If you act like an @$#, you shouldn't be surprised when you are treated like one."

Basically, it all comes down to showing respect for others & earning it for yourself.
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2008, 01:18:42 PM »

As I see it we are a community, each and every one of us is a part of it. Myself a smaller part, others a larger part of it. I have spoken to Richard and I grew up just a few short mountain ridges from where he lives. I've had conversations with Ace and I find him very likeable and helpful. Men are a proud bunch, and to ask Ace to call and grovel to came back may be asking something very hard to do. I think if Nick was the one to ban Ace then it's up to Nick to reinstate Ace and be done with it. We need everyone who wants to be here. We are only on this earth a short time and we all need each other at times. I almost died Last Sat, so this stuff is trivial to me
So Nick I'm asking in a nice way please put and end to it and invite Ace back. 

WVaNative
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Dean Hamilton Villa Grove, IL East Central IL. Near Champaign
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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 01:25:31 PM »

Not that it matters now.. But the person responsible for starting the war was not ACE.

Never was and hasn't been ever since. His responses were acted out as a defensive measure from all historical reference to what started the affair.

The Person whom was elemental was and is still a Global Moderator of this board.

That is the sole reason that the mess became out of control. When a moderator doesn't like something here they just delete peoples messages because it pissed them off. That is the bottom line....

Ace is on my board and has behaved very well, He like all of us can become sensitive if conversations start reeling out of control.

To the moderators and admins of this board. Gentlemen you do tend to make the appearance that you are the final word in many things. Not once have two of you actually agreed on anything. All things considered as a general rule you have done a pretty good job so far even forgiving some of the " It's Mine! " nonsense.

As for anyone deciding whether a person is welcome or not. It should not come down to a POLL or 50 page dissertation by 90 people who have no idea what is going on.

You can flame me, ban me, delete me and be nastly all you want... I really don't care.
My life is not and will not be regulated by a POLL or any silly stuff like that. I don't think it is fair to anyone to put a POLL up to decide whether someone can participate on this or any other Bulleting Board.

Thanks, Guys this really pushed me over the edge...

I will be on my board where Fair is Fair http://www.rvbus.net

Dave....

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« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2008, 02:20:12 PM »

I liked Bobofthenorth's take.  Just with the twist that I don't think I have the "power".... and want it not.   I would rather the pole have asked wether I "have a problem with Ace being.....to the board".  To that I answer NO!   I have no problem at all.  He put out some good stuff and was helpful and generous to many.

I also missed his being banned from posting.  Thought he was just laying low.  Now I am disappointed that I didn't drop him a line and express my disappointment...even IF he richly deserved the discipline.  I really do believe in PAYBACK and I look forward to getting mine and giving it and I conduct my life of deeds accordingly.  Now as far as argument and attitude and opinion, well that is different.  Maybe I am broad minded or maybe something else but I have actually promoted people that liked me not one bit but they followed my lead faithfully and their performance was exemplary.  No beer drinky, though.  Another comes to mind that had the morales of a curr dog and I loath habitual adulterers.  Still, look as I might I could find nothing in the evaluation guide and procedures that allowed me to consider either of their shortcomings.  Civil service requires, as a policy, that you promote who is the best qualified and who is the best performer and that for the good of the Nation.....its easy, see.  No politics.  And ,no, I am not simple minded enuf to even dream that I am the NORM.

Hope to hear from Ace soon but I support the moderators.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2008, 02:35:38 PM »

Since I'm the culprit who started all this I'm going to jump in here with a thought or two.

First thank you all for your votes and posts....the poll was the only way I could think of to show any measure of support for Ace. Those of us who know him realize that he's a completely different person, one on one in a discussion, than we might find in the written dialogue.  I've had what I thought were disagreements with some postings but I sent those members a personal message and kept any disagreements off the Board.

Anytime I find one of my posts has been deleted I sit up and take notice and rethink whether or not I should have approached the topic in the manner I did. That's what the Moderators do...and in most cases...do it well.

Perhaps a compromise would be to open Ace's membership again, quietly, and send him a PM to that effect.
I agree with WVNative that he shouldn't have to grovel to anyone...men don't treat men like that.

Wish I'd thought of the 'Don't Care' category...tried to add it but I guess I'm not that computer bright.

Bob
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« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2008, 03:11:42 PM »

Hi Bob,

It this point, this thread shouldn't be the pressure point for Ace or the bbs members and moderators to make a decision. Not fair to anyone!

If Ace wants back in, He'll know what is needed to make that happen.

This thread has expressed good and bad from all points of view and no others are needed. When and if Ace returns, it will be as quietly as he left.

Thanks
Nick-

I have now locked this thread!
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